Blue Note Deep Groove: All You Need To Know
Dec 29, 2009 Blue Note, Collecting Tips, Questions
Last week one of our readers asked about deep grooves and flat edges. Another reader reached out to the Blue Note expert Larry Cohn for the answers. Last week we posted the answer about the Blue Note flat edge LPs. Here is Larry’s response on the deep groove. Thanks to Larry for being so generous with the information and to Don-Lucky for reaching out.
“Put simply, there were special dies attached to the pressing machine, that held down the stampers for Side A and Side B during manufacturing. These dies traditionally cut the deep groove into the label during a pressing. In 1961 new dies were created that were more streamlined, holding down the stampers in place but putting the mere slight indentation into the label – what we see on modern pressings and call NO DG.
“These parts were interchangeable and compatible with the machines, so for the period
Tags: Blue Note Records
Now on eBay: Webster on Verve, Evans Promo
I’m a big fan and collector of the Verve label — as well as Norgran and Clef, of course — so it was with great pleasure that I saw this record on eBay selling for a relatively high price: Ben Webster, Soulville, Verve 8274. This looks to be in M- condition and, with several hours still to go, is already more than $200. It does not have a David Stone Martin cover, and it’s Ben Webster not Lester Young, so I’m kind of wondering what cachet the record holds that would cause it to fetch such a high price. Perhaps it’s just because it’s a nice record in excellent condition.
Also on eBay now is a rare white-label promotional copy of this record:
Tags: Ben Webster, Bill Evans
Brubeck Honored: Kennedy Center & Jazz Collector
Dec 28, 2009 Free Collectibles
Time for our next giveaway. Here’s the record: The Dave Brubeck Quartet Plays Music From West Side Story and Dialogues for Jazz Combo and Orchestra, Columbia 8257. This is a reissue, very nice pressing, of the album Bernstein Plays Brubeck Plays Bernstein. We are offering it in recognition of Brubeck being chosen as a recent recipient of the Kennedy Center Honors. The broadcast of the event will be tomorrow evening in the States, on CBS. They usually keep it a surprise as to who the performers will be, but CBS has put up a brief video on You Tube with Brubeck’s four sons playing Blue Rondo A La Turk from the seminal Take Five album. We’re sure it will be quite moving, especially since the actual event took place on Dec. 6, Brubeck’s 89th birthday. As for the Jazz Collector giveaway:
Tags: Columbia Records, Dave Brubeck, Kennedy Center Honors, Leonard Bernstein
Updating the $1,000 Bin: Griffin, Bird, Dolphy
Dec 28, 2009 $1000 Records, 10-Inch LPs, Blue Note, Jazz Vinyl, Jazz Vinyl on eBay
Doesn’t look as if things on eBay slowed down during the Christmas weekend. Here are a few of the items we’ve been watching:
Johnny Griffin, The Congregation, Blue Note 1580. This was an original pressing with the West 63rd Street address and the cover illustration by Andy Warhol. It was listed in M- condition by a very reliable seller. The price was $1,875. The same seller also sold: Here Comes Louis Smith, Blue Note 1584. This also looked to be in nice M- condition for both the record and the cover. It sold for $1,275.
While we’re updating the $1,000 bin, here’s this one:
Tags: Andy Warhol, Charlie Parker, Dial Records, Eric Dolphy, Jazz Vinyl, Johnny Griffin, Louis Smith
Jazz Vinyl Giveaway, Miles Davis, The Winner Is . . .
Dec 27, 2009 Free Collectibles
A belated merry Christmas to all, and so it is time for our latest Jazz Collector give-away. The item is this: Miles Davis, Milestones, Columbia 9428. This is not an original 6-eye pressing, but is a nice later stereo copy in near mint condition. We have the one copy to give away to one lucky reader of Jazz Collector who was wise enough to post a comment during the past two weeks and lucky enough to have his name plucked out of a hat by the plucky Mrs. Jazz Collector. And so, the names going into the hat for this giveaway are: Michel, Jorge, Dave S., Aaron, Don-Lucky, Jason, Rudolf, CeeDee, Bethellodge, Bob Brooks, Jan, Doug, Gregorious, Geoffrey Wheeler, Soulnik, Geraint and Marshall. A distinguished group if ever we’ve seen one. And so we shall
Tags: Columbia Records, Miles Davis
Blue Note Flat Edge: All You Need To Know
Dec 23, 2009 Blue Note, Collecting Tips, Questions
We have the full, complete, unassailable answer to all questions about Blue Note and the flat edge, thanks to the Blue Note expert Larry Cohn and Don-Lucky for reaching out to Larry. We will also be posting Larry’s comments on the deep groove as well. Here’s the information on the flat edge:
“Here’s some information on the Edges/Rims. The change from Flat Rim (aka Flat Edge) to Safety Lip occurred in 1957. It was in response to new industry standards, occasioned by the popularity of automatic changers, whereby disks were routinely stacked and would fall on each other, the way we recall handling 45rpm disks. To lessen the damage to the LPs, the Safety Lip, also called a Groove Guard by one of the companies, was created at the edge of each side of the disk to keep the actual surfaces of the two disks from touching each other when they came into horizontal contact. It also protected the needle, since
Tags: Flat Edge
Price Updates: Lights Out, Zoot, Kenny Drew
Dec 21, 2009 Blue Note, Jazz Vinyl, Jazz Vinyl on eBay, Prestige, Riverside
Here are some of the items we’ve been watching on eBay:
Jackie McLean, Lights Out, Prestige 7035. This was an original New York pressing with the deep groove and heavy vinyl. The record was listed in M- condition and the cover was VG+. It did not have a flat edge, according to an answer to a questioner, but I’m not sure that doesn’t mean it wasn’t original. Anyway, the price was $639.49.
Phil Woods, Warm Woods, Epic 3436. This was an original pressing and it was listed in M- condition for both the vinyl and the cover. The price was $495.
Zoot Sims, Zoot, Riverside 228. This was an original white label pressing and it was listed in VG++ condition for the vinyl and VG+ for the cover. The price was $413.
Here are a few we were watching the other day:
Tags: Epic Records, Fred Astaire, George Wallington, Jackie McLean, Kenny Drew, Mercury Records, Phil Woods, Zoot Sims
A Reader Question Re: Deep Groove, Flat Edge
Dec 21, 2009 Questions
Sorry I haven’t posted in a couple of days. Was stuck in a snowstorm without my computer. It was like being cut off from civilization. Anyway, I’m back and will soon get caught up on all I’ve missed in the Jazz Collector world. In the meantime, one of our readers posts a question for our readers: What is the derivation of the deep groove and the flat edge? Where they technical considerations that were later abandoned as the technology shifted? Were they specific to certain labels and pressing factories? It’s a good question and I’m sure searching deep on Google may provide an answer, but perhaps we can provide a shortcut and fodder for interesting conversation by asking it here. So, to all, whither the deep groove and the flat edge?
Tags: Deep Groove, Flat Edge
Collectibles Anyone? Astaire, Kenny Drew Riverside
Dec 18, 2009 Riverside
There are quite a few interesting items on eBay now. Here are a couple:
Fred Astaire, The Astaire Story, Mercury 1001 1004. Most of you are probably familiar with this set, produced by Norman Granz in the early 1950s. There were 1,384 copies produced, all autographed by Astaire, and the set came with four LPs, a booklet with exclusive photos and a set of drawings by David Stone Martin. The music is all jazz even though Astaire was not a “jazz singer,” and the sidemen include many of the greats within the Granz stable, such as Oscar Peterson, Flip Phillips, Ray Brown, Barney Kessel, Charlie Shavers. Anyway, it is quite a nice set and used to regularly sell in the $2,000 range. Our top price in the Jazz Collector Price Guide is
Tags: Fred Astaire, Kenny Drew, Mercury Records, Norman Granz
Monterose For the $2,000 Bin
Dec 17, 2009 $1000 Records, Blue Note
Here’s a nice one coming up from Euclid Records: J.R. Monterose, Blue Note 1536. This is an original Lexington Avenue pressing. The record is VG++ and the cover is VG+. The current price is about $530. Speaking of J.R., one of his albums recently sold for more than $2,000: J.R. Monterose In Action, Studio 4 SS 100. This was an original pressing that looked to be M- for the record and VG++ for the cover. The price was $2,025, either enhanced or depressed by the signature of a local disk jockey on the back. Signatures can be tricky, especially if it’s not the signature of one of the artists. By the
Tags: JR Monterose, Studio Records
Catching Up: Flanagan, Clifford, Jackie’s Bag
Dec 16, 2009 10-Inch LPs, Blue Note, Prestige
Some of the auctions we’ve been watching just closed, so here’s an update:
Tommy Flanagan Overseas, Prestige 7134. This was an original New York pressing sold by Euclid Records. It was in VG+ condition for both the cover and the vinyl. It sold for $722.02. This is a bit less than we might have anticipated, although condition was a factor. We’ve found things a little slow on eBay this week — we had a bunch of reasonably priced records that didn’t sell at all, which was quite unusual. Perhaps there’s a pre-Christmas lull?
That Blue Note vs. French Vogue competition we were watching from Jazz Record Center? As we expected, the Blue Note commanded the higher price: $430 for Blue Note 5048 versus $256.36 for the French Vogue. You can look at our previous posts for more details on the records, as well as links. The more interesting one out of that group was: Clifford Brown Quartet, Blue Note 5047. This seems to be harder
Tags: Clifford Brown, Euclid Records, Jackie McLean, Jazz Record Center, Tommy Flanagan
On eBay Now: Some Nice 10-Inchers, Trane, Evans
Dec 15, 2009 10-Inch LPs, Blue Note, Prestige, Riverside
Some of the heavy-duty jazz vinyl sellers have auctions closing in the next couple of days, so let’s see what’s coming up. We had mentioned Jazz Record Center and some of the 10-inch LPs. So far, the American 10-inch Blue Note is beating out the original French Vogue: The Gigi Gryce and Clifford Brown Sextet, Blue Note 5048, is currently at $107 with two bidders (it should sell for a lot more), while the original French Vogue, Gigi Gryce and his Orchestra Featuring Clifford Brown, Vogue 173 is at $100 with one bidder (it too should sell for a lot more). Jazz Record Center also has a few nice 12-inch LPs we are watching, including this one: Wheelin’ and Dealin’, Prestige 7131. This is an original New York pressing in near mint condition. It features an all-star sax lineup of John Coltrane, Paul Quinichette and Frank Wess. It is currently in the $300 price range.
Our friends at Euclid Records also have some nice items this week, including:
Tags: Atomic Records, Bill Evans, Clifford Brown, Euclid Records, Frank Wess, Gigi Gryce, J. R. Monterose, Jackie McLean, Jazz Record Center, John Coltrane, Paul Quinichette, Vogue
A Tale of Two Covers
Dec 14, 2009 Album Covers, Blue Note
I’ve never been one to collect European pressings of original American LPs but I have to admit my heart fluttered a bit when I was browsing eBay this morning and came upon this: Sonny Rollins, Worktime, Esquire 32-308. Now this is an awesome cover. The drawing is reminiscent of David Stone Martin. I, frankly, hadn’t seen this cover before so I’m hoping someone out there has more knowledge about it and can share it. I just think it’s a terrific cover all the way around, and clearly some bidders on eBay agree with me: The record and cover are in about VG condition and the price is already more than $300 with 10 bids. It will be interesting to see what this goes for, and to learn more about it as well. I did a quick Google search and didn’t find anything, but I’ll take a longer look later if no one in the audience has the info.
Another record with a very interesting cover closing today is:
Tags: Esquire Records, Joan Miro, Sonny Rollins, Storyville Records, Toshiko Akiyoshi
Price Guide Update: Some More Blue Notes
Dec 12, 2009 Blue Note, Price Guide
Here are some of the items we’ll be entering into the Jazz Collector Price Guide:
Ike Quebec, It Might As Well Be Spring, Blue Note 4105. This was an original New York USA mono pressing. The record looked to be in VG++ condition and the cover was VG+. The price was $387, which sets a new high not only for this LP but for any of the Ike Quebec Blue Notes. It’s a bit of a surprise to us, frankly, but a clear indication of the power of the Blue Note market.
Although . . . you look at this record and are a bit surprised it sold for so much less than the Quebec record: Jackie McLean, New Soil, Blue Note 4013. This was an original West 63rd mono pressing and it was listed in VG+ condition for both the record and the cover. It sold for $192.28. I have a weird explanation for this as a longtime observer of eBay auctions: On the Jackie record, instead of listing the record as VG+, the seller listed it as VG plus. I’m not sure some people may have just looked at it as VG. Normally, you’d expect this record to sell for at least $300 or so, even in VG+ condition. Sometimes little subtleties in the listings can make a difference.
Here’s another Blue Note:
Tags: Curtis Fuller, Ike Quebec, Jackie McLean, Sonny Clark
New JRC Auction: Nice 10-Inch Blue Notes
Dec 10, 2009 10-Inch LPs, Blue Note
Jazz Record Center sent us an email with a new auction on eBay. It’s always interesting to watch their auctions, since they tend to get top dollar because of their strong and well-deserved reputation. One thing I’m noticing with this auction is that some of the starting prices seem a bit lower than usual. Here’s an example: Gigi Gryce and Clifford Brown Sextet, Blue Note 5048. This is an original 10-inch pressing that looks to be in either near mint or VG++ condition. The start price is $100. My sense is, a couple of years ago, JRC would have started this more in the range of $250. I personally think a relatively lower start price is a better way to go for most records, since it gets more bidders involved in the process. In the end, I’ll bet this record sells for at least $300-$400, if not higher. There are some other nice records on this list as well, including Clifford Brown Quartet, Blue Note 5047. I’ve rarely seen that one either on eBay or live and up close. The price on that is also at $100 and we’ll expect it to fetch quite a bit more.
Updates: Overseas, Hipp & Zoot, Shades of Redd
Dec 10, 2009 $1000 Records, Blue Note, Prestige
The seller bluenipper had some nice items close yesterday, including:
Tommy Flanagan Overseas, Prestige 7134. This was an original New York pressing. The record was VG++ (or better) and the cover was M-. The price was $2,126.33. Our top for this in the Jazz Collector Price Guide is around $2,400, so this is certainly within the range.
Jutta Hipp With Zoot Sims, Blue Note 1530. This was an original Lexington Avenue pressing. The record was listed as VG++ and the cover as somewhere between VG+ and VG++. The price was $1311. The most recent copy we’ve seen of this in near mint condition sold for $3,343, but that was from Nautiluso, the Jazz Vinyl Fraud perpetrator, so we’re not sure how to count that. It’s legitimate in that the bidding got it to that price, but were there tricks that spiked
Tags: Freddie Redd, Jutta Hipp, Tommy Flanagan, Zoot Sims
Well, At Least It’s Original
Dec 9, 2009 Blue Note
Here’s a guy looking to retire: Horace Silver, Blowin’ The Blues Away, Blue Note 4017. It’s an original press and it’s in VG++ condition. The start price is $7,500. Imagine if it was mint.
Tags: Horace Silver
Jazz Vinyl Countdown: For Love or Money
Dec 9, 2009 Blue Note, The Great Jazz Vinyl Countdown
I’m still doing my Jazz Vinyl Countdown: Selling more records, writing about them a bit less. However, I did make a couple of interesting decisions in the past couple of weeks I’d like to share. In the course of doing the Jazz Collector Price Guide I logged a copy of this record: Zoot Sims and Joe Newman, Lockin’ Horns, Rama 1003. It sold for $260 in near mint condition and had sold for more than $400 in the past. I happened to know I had a nice copy of this record, a promo, and I happened to know that I had not listened to it in 25 years, since I bought it. So the question was: Keep it or sell if for the bread. I listened to the record and it’s actually very nice. But, I thought to myself, would I ever listen to it again: Not likely. I have a lot of Zoot records that I prefer, so this one probably wouldn’t make it off the shelves. So I put it up on eBay with a start price of around $50, no reserve, and it sold for about $215. That was fine by me. The second recent incident involved a rare Blue Note and a higher price tag:
Tags: Horace Parlan, Jazz Vinyl, Joe Newman, Rama Record, Zoot Sims
Jazz Vinyl Giveaway: Milestones by Miles Davis
Dec 7, 2009 Free Collectibles
Read the rest of this entry »
Time for another Jazz Collector giveaway. Let’s go with another classic this time: Miles Davis, Milestones, Columbia 9428. This is a stereo pressing, a later pressing, not an original. It is, however, in near mint condition. I have it on the turntable now and I’d guess this is the first time it’s been played. Considering that it is marked as “electronically re-channeled for stereo” it sounds quite good actually. I’m listening now to Cannonball Adderley’s solo on the track “Miles,” which most of us think of as “Milestones.” Anyway, this is a great record, recorded a little before Kind of Blue, with much of the same band, although no Bill Evans, Wynton Kelly or Jimmy Cobb. This one features Miles and Adderley and John Coltrane, with Red Garland, Paul Chambers and Philly Joe Jones. The tracks are Dr. Jekyll, Sid’s Ahead, Two Bass Hit, Miles, Billy Boy and Straight, No Chaser. We have one copy of this LP to give away
Tags: Columbia Records, Miles Davis
Jazz Vinyl Fraud: No News, More Comments
Dec 7, 2009 Jazz Vinyl Fraud
Here’s an update on some of the stuff going on in the Jazz Collector world.
Nothing new from eBay on the Nautiluso Jazz Vinyl Fraud. I had sent a follow-up note asking specifically what eBay was doing about paying off victims of the scam and I haven’t gotten a response. I’ll follow up sometime today or tomorrow. I’m sure they’re sick of hearing from me. Also, there’s no new feedback on the profile page for Nautiluso. Frankly, I’m surprised eBay still has the page up and available.
Some of the Jazz Collector readers have commented offline about the fraud, presumably because they wanted to be anonymous on the site. I will share excerpts here:
Tags: Ella Fitzgrald, Jazz Vinyl Fraud
On eBay Now: Jackie, Mobley & a Sealed Dolphy
Dec 5, 2009 $1000 Records, Blue Note
Some interesting items on eBay this weekend. Let’s take a look:
Here’s a beauty: Jackie McLean, The New Tradition, Ad Lib 6601. This one looks to be in beautiful condition and is a promo copy. How many promo copies do you think there are of this record? I do have to say, for a very rare record, it comes up fairly often on eBay. I guess that’s just a function of eBay. I’ve been going to record stores all over the world for 40 years and never saw this in a store, although I did own the record at one time and sold it. On eBay, it seems there is a copy at least once a week, sometimes more. Of course, some of these may not be real — Nautiluso anyone? — and some may not be in very nice condition. This one is and the current price is $1,500 and it still has not reached the seller’s reserve.
Here’s a rare Blue Note that may be difficult to judge, based on the seller’s description:
Tags: Ad Lib Records, Eric Dolphy, Hank Mobley, Jackie McLean
Opening Up The $3,000 and $2,000 Bins
Dec 4, 2009 $1000 Records, Blue Note, Jazz Vinyl, Jazz Vinyl on eBay
It looks as if the fallout from the Jazz Vinyl Fraud of 2009 hasn’t had much of an impact on the prices of high-end vinyl in the past few weeks. Here are a few records that will be entering the $1,000-plus bin in the Jazz Collector Price Guide. If things continue like this, we’ll have to create a $3,000 bin as well as a $2,000 bin. Take a look at these:
Dexter Gordon, Dexter Blows Hot and Cool, Dootone 207. This was an original pressing with the red vinyl. The record was listed in M- condition and the cover was VG++. The price was $3,371. This sets a new high price for this record, as far as what we have recorded in the Jazz Collector Price Guide. Our previous high was $3,059.
This was one of the items on eBay this week from the seller Blue Nipper, who received a lot of unsolicited praise from members of the Jazz Collector community who commented on the site: Tina Brooks, True Blue, Blue Note 4041. This was
Tags: Dexter Gordon, Dootone Records, Tina Brooks
eBay Files Criminal Complaint in Nautiluso Case
Dec 3, 2009 Jazz Vinyl Fraud
Well, our persistence paid off. We finally got a response from eBay media relations today on the Nautiluso case and it’s a doozy: The company says it has filed a criminal complaint with the Berlin Police. Here’s the full text of the reply:
“I have an short update for you and your readers. I appreciate your patience and I’m sure you understand that an international investigation takes time. You can tell your readers that eBay is continuing to investigate this matter and has filed a criminal complaint with the Berlin Police. This is all the detail I can provide at this time.”
That’s all we have for now, but it’s really fascinating and gives us hope that we’ll eventually get to the bottom of what actually happened. Also, I went through all of our
Tags: Jazz, Jazz Vinyl Fraud
Putting a Name on the Jazz Vinyl Fraud
Dec 3, 2009 Jazz Vinyl Fraud, News
As Rudolf pointed out in a comment yesterday, Nautiluso, perpetrator of the Jazz Vinyl Fraud of 2009, is no longer a registered user on eBay, so the public information about him is slowly starting to disappear. There was a point at which he had a My World page, but that is gone. You can still see on eBay that he had been a member since June 8, 2003 – in Germany. Personally, I’m not sure he was ever based in Brazil: It’s likely he had an accomplice mail from a Brazil mailing address because he believed it would provide a safe haven. The thing about this guy is, for several years he was probably a legitimate seller and probably used his real name in communicating with customers. I will tell you the name he used: Thomas Lamprecht. If you had any dealings with him, please let us know. What’s also starting to disappear from eBay are
Tags: Jazz Vinyl Fraud
Nautiluso: More Feedback, No Response From eBay
Dec 2, 2009 Jazz Vinyl Fraud, News
Here’s a quick update on the Nautiluso Fraud:
I contacted media relations at eBay on Monday with a bunch of questions. Still no response. I’ll follow up today. Still trying to find out if they are acknowledging a fraud, if they are pressing charges against the perpetrator and if they are consistently reimbursing victims.
There are two new instances of negative feedback on Nautiluso if you check out his profile here. These are from a classical buyer from the same auction. He was ripped off to the tune of about $3,400 and says on his feedback that eBay refunded his money. So far, everyone we’ve heard from directly has
Tags: eBay Fraud, Nautiluso, The New York Times