Guest Column: Reviewing The Blue Note Guide

Mike Falcon has promised a review of the new Fred Cohen book, and here it is:
Blue Note Records A Guide to Indentifying Original Pressings
A Review By Mike Falcon
For as long as I have been collecting Blue Notes there has been a large chorus asking for a complete guide to navigate the complexities of what constitutes a first pressing.  And now they have it.  Frederick Cohen has given us “Blue Note Records, A Guide to Identifying Original Pressings” an authoritative manual on the Blue Note discography.  This includes the EPs, 10” LPs, and all of the pre-Liberty LPs in both Mono and Stereo.
I first went to the Jazz Record Center in 2002.  I had never seen a record store like it.  Everywhere I looked was something interesting and new to me.  I spent a long while thumbing through records looking at the photos and memorabilia on the wall, and thinking that if I ever win the Lotto I’ll be back here first.  I’ve never won the lotto but I’ve been back a few times, always with less money than I would have liked.  I had spoken to Fred a few times and was always impressed by how informative he was.  I would think, “This guy should write a book”.  Well he has.
“Blue Note Records, A Guide to Identifying Original Pressings” is a nicely bound 6 ½” x 9 ½” inch black book with the Blue Train label with red arrows pointing to the various identifying features on the cover.  It’s written more like a compendium or research paper and is not in the narrative form.  It starts with an introduction, preface, and acknowledgements, before getting to the list of illustrations and glossary.  The glossary and illustrations are necessary to understand what you are reading when sorting through the pressing guide.  The illustrations show what is meant by all of the famous Blue Note esotery.  This includes examples of the famous

Plastylite “P”, all the Rudy Van Gelder stamps (including pictures of Van Gelder’s actual stamping tools), all of the label addresses, laminated and non-laminated covers, frame covers (commonly referred to as Kakubuchi), and other identifying marks.
The meat of the text is the pressing guide, which goes through the catalog series by series and identifies what should constitute an original pressing.  An example would be something like this:

4059                        W63i, dg-s2, P, RVGs, br / NYC, lam

This indicates that the BLP 4059 original record has the West 63rd Street address with INC after Blue Note Records, a deep-groove on Side 2 only, the Plastylite P and RVG stamped in the dead wax, and a beaded rim; the cover has the 43 West 61st St. address on the back and is laminated.  All other characteristics of 4059 (in this instance just “PS”, i.e. printed spine) apply to its group, the 4000 mono series.”  It takes a few tries but is pretty intuitive after a few references.  The pressing guide is broken up by the different series and then by stereo or mono.  Once the abbreviations are understood, it takes a just a minute to reference a particular pressing.  Anything exotic about a particular record is denoted by an asterisk and explained at the bottom of the page.
There are quite a few details in here that will aid all but the most experienced collector in their searches.  There is more. There is a section on the mono vs. stereo question with Rudy Van Gelder, pictures of all the inner sleeves, a discussion about the history of Blue Note during the transitional periods, a chronology of release dates, a list of known stereo sessions, and a very interesting section on some of the most rare pressings (not 1538, 1568, or 1588, but rarer!).  Then Fred gives the closing word, which addresses some of the individual pressing details that are left to be explored further by the collectors.
This book may leave remaining questions about details but will be invaluable to almost all collectors to help organize their information and create more sophisticated collectors.  Much money can be spent chasing down pressings that are thought to be first, only later to find out that they are not and worth a fraction of what was paid.  This makes it invaluable to me.

Blue Note Records A Guide to Indentifying Original Pressings is available for $45 plus shipping and handling at the Jazz Record Center website.

58 Responses to “Guest Column: Reviewing The Blue Note Guide”

  1. Katharsis Says:

    Thank you for this informative review. It’s just one month too late, hence I was in NYC then. Now I have to pay for the shipping…but I will!

  2. Frederick Cohen Says:

    Thanks for your very generous comments.
    I have one correction: the example you quoted for Blue Note 4059 should read that the cover is “laminated”. You have it as “non-laminated”, which is not as it appears in the book. (Note — this has subsequently been fixed in the document — al)

  3. Ricardo Says:

    One of the “MUST HAVE” books..for sure! I will buy one.

  4. ceedee Says:

    Oh,yeah! This and the upcoming book on Blue Note by Ashley Khan already have their places reserved on my shelf. Now maybe people will get back to discussing what matters most…the music!

  5. London Calling Says:

    Think I’ll wait for the Second Edition (only kidding Fred)

    Highly desirable!!! Bravo.

    If you are here Fred, can you throw any light on the meaning of “9M” engraved in the runout of a seemingly random selection of early titles? No one has come up with a credible story yet.

    Also what is a “beaded rim” any one? Confess my ignorance, thats a first for me at least.

    May be we buyers should insist ebay sellers grade against not only Goldmine standards, but classify according to Cohen Categories. Wouldn’t that be nice. No more “rare early pressing (no mention of ear) plays real nice”

  6. Mike Says:

    Fred, thanks for the correction. Hopefully we can get a strike through on that.
    I’m anxiously awaiting the Ashely Khan book as well.

  7. Mike Says:

    Beaded Rim, is a way of saying not Flat Rim.

  8. Mike Says:

    Sorry, meant to give more info. A Beaded Rim, is the raised rim that came about in part to keep records from damageing each other when stack. Also called a safety lip or groove guard. Al wrote a great article about it here.

  9. don-lucky Says:

    …It’s odd that Fred chose to use a later pressing of John Coltrane’s Blue Train for the cover on this one. It certainly looks like it will be one worth adding to the collection. Thanks for the great review Mike !

  10. London Calling Says:

    Oh THAT Beaded Rim, Mike, yeah, I knew all that. He said, lying.

    I have a couple of 63NY23 records from 1957-8. I’ll see if they give me any lip. Hopefully all these things are photographically illustrated, as until you have seen one you don’t really know what you are looking for.

  11. Mike Says:

    LC, everything in the book is photographically illustrated. From the Frame Cover, Laminated Cover, various RVG stamps, to the Rims there are nice clean pictures.

  12. Mattyman Says:

    Phew… I still remember my own comment from a few weeks ago, suggesting some kind of ‘time line’ with all the details to pay attention to. Next thing you know London Calling delivers a spreadsheet that got everyone on the ball and now this book sees the light of day! Yes, I agree: at the end of the day it is about the music and only the music. But since we’re all buying records with our own hard earned cash, it’s a relief to know that we finally have various sources to lean on before we fork out the cash. This afternoon I called JRC and before the end of the week they’ll have a one click link online just for purchasing the book. That’s going to be my late Xmas gift ;-)

  13. maartenkools Says:

    FredCohen: this is just great!! the more info the better.
    And it can be both about the music and the freaky tech. details.

  14. Mattyman Says:

    Just a quick question, guys: I don’t seem to be able to order the book outside of the USA. I already emailed them about it. Anyone dealing with the same problem?

  15. Mattyman Says:

    Well, the email didn’t help much either: doesn’t work and coughs up delivery failures. I guess I have to call them again. I just hope I’m not the only one dealing with this problem.

  16. Mike Says:

    Mattyman, have you tried

  17. Mattyman Says:

    I did that too, Mike. It just keeps bouncing. Problem also is that their phone number has been busy for the last hour and a half…

  18. Katy B. Says:

    My LP Blue Note Record labels do not match!!. The Lee Morgan 1575 City Lights Record, I HAVE a copy that has the 23 address

    on side 1 only! (Side One-: “47 west 63rd new york 23?!!!!!!!!!!, My side two says-: “47 west 63rd nyc” is it true it looks

    very,very,very rare??,even with no cover???,BUT I DO HAVE THE COVER Too.The back of the Cover has the side 1 address too(with

    23). I ask this
    in response to reading dottorjazz Says: … is the “rare” address on side 1 ? read in blue note notes:
    This is one of several original Blue Notes for which the labels do not match: *Side 1 has the “47 West 63rd NEW YORK 23? label

    while *Side 2 has the “47 WEST 63rd NYC” label with the centering mark over the “i” (in “Microgroove”). While many versions

    of this record have been seen with West 63rd NYC labels on both sides, no copies have been found to have the New York 23

    address on both sides or Side 1 alone.
    so if your copy has the 23 address on side 1 only,looks very,very,very rare,even with no cover. My copy also has RVG & EAR

    Please let me know any info is appreciated!!thank u!

  19. Mike Says:

    Weird, maybe everyone is ordering the book! Probably not though.

  20. Mattyman Says:

    Well, call me crazy folks, but I’m sure I’m not a complete computer illiterate; it is impossible for me to order the book online at JRC. I have emailed them on every possible email address, but to no avail. The whole darn page to purchase the book simply does not work. The webpage doesn’t know what kind of shipping to add to the $45 of the book, the “choose your preferred payment” doesn’t work and I can’t close the purchase. Since JRC’s phone number seems to be busy non-stop, I decided to cross my fingers and hope that Fred sees my message: Fred, your webpage doesn’t allow me to buy your book, the online order form doesn’t work and I can’t close my purchase even if I wanted to. Please look into this, ’cause it ain’t workin’

  21. dottorjazz Says:

    same problem Mattyman,but I had this mail back:

    Hi Giorgio,

    Thank you for your email. We are having some difficulty with our website processing area due to an increase in postage as of January 1, by the USPS, which requires an update to our site. We are working on that today, and will let you know by email when you can successfully order a copy of the book.

    so I think we’ll gonna have access to the book in the next days.

  22. dottorjazz Says:

    Katy B.:1575 should have 47 west 63rd New York 23 on both sides to my knowledge.
    Fred’s book will clear this and many other collectors’ problems,but I’m almost sure that some shadows won’t be cleared.

  23. don-lucky Says:

    Hey Mattyman, I had the same problem ordering the book on the website, so I called Fred and just ordered it over the phone. He mentioned exactly what Doctorjazz noted above, and they are currently working on correcting the issue on the site for the rest of the world. He also noted that the book had been completed some time ago, but was constantly being delayed by the publisher… Better late than never right. (Don’t forget to ask Fred to inscribe it for you !) …On a side note, he also mentioned that they used a later pressing of Blue Train for the cover of the book because it showed examples of all the standard annotations that might be found or refered to when appraising a given pressing. Where as if they had used the first pressing it would not have had examples of such things as the ‘R’ etc.

  24. Mike Says:

    1575, like 1577 should have the NY23 on one side only. I don’t believe(but would love to be disproven) that it has ever been seen with NY23 on both. Also, no Inc or R should be found and the W63 address should be on the back. Katy B are you selling ;-)

  25. Mattyman Says:

    @Dottorjazz and Don-Lucky, thanks for your comments and thankfully I, too, received the same email that Dottorjazz received from Fred, so I now know what’s going on. Who would have thunk that a USPS raise in shipping fees could cause this? ;-)
    Anyway, I think I’ll follow your advice, Don-Lucky, and order it over the phone and ask Fred to put a dedication in it. Maybe in a few years that copy will be worth a lot too! :-D

  26. Frederick Cohen Says:

    I must apologize to all the readers who have shown interest in the book and have been frustrated by the inability to order it from our website. We did not know that the U.S. Postal system had changed the mailing rates as of January 1 until the first orders in 2011 began to show a higher mailing cost than our system was programmed for. We have asked our website designer to fix this. We expect (hope) that all will be well by Monday, January 10, at the latest.

  27. Mattyman Says:

    Well, Fred, the mere fact that you took the effort to email personally to explain what was going on is much appreciated. And now here on Jazzcollector as well! Hats off. But on the positive side I now know that I will ask you for a signed copy! :-P

  28. London Calling Says:

    Common guys, if they are all signed, doesn’t that reduce its value somewhat? Some things you have to keep to yourself…

  29. don-lucky Says:

    ..The knowledge in Fred’s book will certainly make each copy a valuable commodity to us here at the “Jazz Collective” either way. The signiture is the proverbial icing on the cake for me personally, but I am an autographie junkie what can I say ! Never the less, this book will be worth its weight in gold. At least until it hits the NY Times best seller list that is, then we will have to deal with all the added competition on the market ! Perhaps we should keep this one our little secret for the time being just to be safe… heh heh. (Sorry Fred !)

  30. Mike Says:

    Don-Lucky said it, I think over the past 12 years i would have saved about $2K if I had this book the whole time. I’ve found out too many times the hard way that I paid too much for a non-first(although they are worthless, still great records with some value).

    I’m with everyone else though, I love the fact that I have a First Edition Book on First Editions. I think we are all a little crazy.

  31. London Calling Says:

    “worth less” not “worthless” I think you mean. What a difference a letter space makes.

    And there’s the rub. I picked up what I can only conclude was a second press of 1562, which checked all the boxes (DG/P etc)except on its 47W63rd labels.

    label side 1 is no INC no R, and side 2 bears the INC and the R

    It was not cheap but it was not a first by that criteria. But there was not a first on offer, just that one copy. Its deal or no deal.

    I decided it was better to have a second than none, and money exchanged hands. As I like to say, you can’t play money.Put a hundred dollar bill on your turntable and try it for yourself.

  32. Nou Says:

    Is the plastylite P the official name for what people refer to as the “ear” in the runout wax? .. N

  33. Mike Says:

    Nou, Yes that is correct.

    LC, definitely meant Worth Less. Thanks for the correction. I enjoy all my blue notes, I even love my liberty pressings of many earlier ones that sound beautiful. Just wish I hadn’t loss so much money on ones I thought were firsts.

  34. London Calling Says:

    The more I improve my hifi the more I have to reassess what the various Blue Note pedigrees sound like to me. And the more my collection grows (around 200 plus and counting) the more points of reference I acquire.

    In an ideal world we would all have 800 first pressings, but no prizes for guessing this isn’t.

    I have around 50 Liberty’s and I used to think they sounded pretty good.However the more “originals” I acquire (anything within the Blue Note period before Liberty) the more I find the Liberty pressings usually though not always thin and unattractive compared with originals.

    However my Toshiba’s and Kings have begun to sound hugely better with equipment improvements. The King’s are really blossoming with my latest speaker cable upgrade. The sound is in those grooves – you just have to be able to get it out!

    The upshot of all this is a not very earth-shattering conclusion.

    Seems to me collectors are on safe ground, Fred’s book in one hand, cheque-book in the other.

    Audiophiles on the other hand are swimming in a “sea of relativity”.
    The limited number of both Original and First I have don’t sound any better than their Original but not First companions. There is no firm ground like the collectors have.

    In case anyone is still following this thread and complains “why not stick to the music?” its impossible to separate sonic quality and enjoyment. I have the same album on French DMM as an Original. The DMM just made me want to switch off. Totally uninvolving. The same record as original pinned me to my chair begging for more. It matters.

    This really has been something of a rollercoaster, my thanks to all contributors to this thread, and of course our generous host.

  35. dottorjazz Says:

    I spent almost a whole year assembling my system,back in 1988.I used 3 different sound sources to be sure to obtain the sound I liked most:bill evans it must as well be spring (lp),art pepper living legend (lp) and,please don’t kill me,enja watermark (cd).I listened to one selection for each record hundreds of times,changing just one cable,or cartridge,or speaker,or pre-amp and so on at a that year I listened to the sound only.then I decided the stuff I liked,got it home and re-started to listen to music.
    I don’t wanna discuss equipments at all:I am sure that the best system around is the one your ear likes more,the one that satisfies YOU only,but,remember,no system gonna play good if you don’t put your loved music on.
    london and matty made some comparison between different opinion:my satisfaction is (almost) always related to the first pressing as a piece of history,with its crack,scratch,hiss (debut 10″).I love you vinyl,gettin’old with me.

  36. London Calling Says:

    Enja? Dottor!

    We all have our musical secrets. Yours is safe with us.

  37. dottorjazz Says:

    thanks sir,pretty sure to be among friends.
    if anyone wants to challenge his woofers and perform the lowest audible bass on his system,should try the enya cd.the track is Waterfall at min 1-02 secs
    if you’re allowed to pump up the volume you’ll be knocked out:give a try and let us know
    for double bass (acoustic) try charlie haden drive on ophelia with pepper at min.4-52 secs,right channel.
    for those interested I use a Mark Levinson dual monaural preamplifier N.26,the one with external power block:no way to change sound:love it or stay away.Krell KSA 250 power amp delivering 250 watts into 8 ohms for channel in class A
    weight:70 kg (approx.154 lb)
    cd digital drive:Philips CDD 882 with external D/A processor (Stax)
    turntable:J.A.Michell Gyro Dec with Well Tempered arm and Denon cartridge.has its power block separated and is ALL have to lift the arm with your finger,no automatisms at all.
    Magneplanar M G 3.6 speakers.
    and then we have cables:different kinds for any connection:Cardas,Straight Wire and so on:this has been the greatest difficulty while choosing.
    I can say I’m completely satisfied:my system has been working nice the last 23 years.
    really don’t cry on what I spent.

  38. Katharsis Says:

    @London Calling: Well pointed out and lovely written!
    Approaching 30 everything still feels like growing up. So I’m happy with every original record I can get my hands on and I’ll have to keep ‘em until I can really afford the technical equipment, these records so deeply afford.

  39. Mattyman Says:

    Well, folks, I guess I have to bust my hump for a another 25 years or so before I can afford the high end setups similar to those of either London or the Dottor, but I’m still pretty pleased with what I have to feast my ears to. I use the Technics SU-C800UM2 pre-amp and the SE-A900S-MarkII power amp combo and I play my records on a good old Technics SL-1200MKII turntable, using the Ortofon Concorde cartridges. Speakers, believe it or not: a pair of late seventies Wharfedale Glendale XP2. I inherited those from my late grandpa and I love ‘em. They’re still in splendid nick, and the rubber edges of the woofers, well, I keep ‘em flexible with a bit of silicone every now and then. Call it a stack of old stuff hooked up to a set of prehistoric speakers, but there’s only one thing that counts: how the music sounds to me when I put my records on. I still can’t keep my eyes dry when I play Charlie Parker’s heart wrenching versions of Lover Man or The Gypsy on Dial. ;-)

  40. GW Says:

    It is only logic that we (as music lovers) are also interested in the technical hardware. Glad to hear that you all stay loyal with your equipment! I also stay with the same equipment since more than 10 years, regarding amplifier even much longer as I purchased my NAD 3020 as a student 20 years ago. Besides Mission 760 speakers and a Project 6.9 fully manual turntable…..but I would love to hear some of my favorites on such an awesome system like dottorjazz calls his own!!!

  41. maarten kools Says:

    hifi can be a neverending story if you choose so..
    i am almost there in giving it up and accept that it is ok what you have… (but just when i thought i was out they pull me…….”)

    Musical Fidelity A1
    Project rpm 6.1 SB
    Focal Chorus 826V goldring cartridge

    cables: don’t get me started on that bulls***

  42. Bob Brooks Says:

    What I never see many people talk about are MONO cartridges. Anyone have a favorite or one that brings out the best in our old jazz lps? Also, the mono carts have a wider stylus best for 10 inch and most jazz, right? I’m still new to records and turntables and haven’t completed my equipment setup yet. I agree with maarten on the cables though, just bought some cheap ones from blue jeans cable.

  43. ceedee Says:

    Hey,Al-looks like this equipment thread-or what is quickly BECOMING such a thread-desrves one of it’s own,as in “What are you listening to those precious jazz recordings on?” Whaddaya think?

  44. dottorjazz Says:

    don’t know if you gonna believe me but every single piece of your equipment sounds different according to the combination.some suggestions:
    1)listen and evaluate only music you’re sure to know very well,use few sources
    2)change a piece at a time and go back listening again
    3)never follow sellers’ advices
    4)the first important judge IS your ear
    5)the second judge is your home
    a system can play,and usually does,fantastic in the shop:ask for a home demonstration:you’ll be surprised with the difference
    6)buy when you’re totally satisfied
    7)sad note:pay for it
    now and only now go back to listen to your music
    if you are satisfied with your equipment,your music will keep you happy for the rest of your life
    what is the best system ?
    the one your ear likes best,no matter the price
    can’t afford the monsters on the market ?
    let’em there,don’t even listen to them.carefully choose something’s surely waitin’ for you.

  45. London Calling Says:

    Wise words Dottor, and there is also a third important test every hifi set up has to pass: the WAF test.
    This discussion inspired me to take a picture, and explain WAF futher:

  46. ceedee Says:

    Ha,ha! London,you clearly enjoy writing about the hunt as much as capturing a rarity,itself. To a jazz-o-holic,this is REAL big game hunting! Nice-looking Linn’s,too..they seem turned OUT from your sweet spot,though. Is that the case?

  47. London Calling Says:

    Well observed Ceedee, but no, they are entirely parallel. 242’s do not benefit from heeling in. The angular distortion (Maarten will note) is due to necessary use indoor of a short focal length (Canon 35mm f1.4L) on my full frame EOS 5D Mk2

    Hifi and Blue Note Jazz are not my only weaknesses! And yes, I like writing as much as listening, and seeing.

    Only two more senses to go.

  48. maarten kools Says:

    canon 5d mark 2…. it is a ANIMAL!!
    don’t buy a 1ds mark3 , it is wasted money.
    if i don’t use a phase one digital back (P45+), i use the canon 5D. The distortion with a 35 mm is not about the lens , but the distance from your subject

    this is the last time i will speak about camera’s on this site;-)

  49. GW Says:

    WAF – london calling: you are perfectly right with this category!! My wife also sometimes wonders why 2 turntables are necessary and why our home is cramped with so many records. But – most important – she loves the music.

  50. dottorjazz Says:

    my WAF:as old blue eyes sang:”I don’t drink wine and I don’t sniff stuff;so I’m all home-office.I’ve only one bug:MUSIC,so I got my spaces every where I could,large spaces.My wife loves shoes:I tell her she’s got only two feet and she roars back that I have only two ears !true,but I do use ears for culture,not fashion.

  51. London Calling Says:

    There’s one difference, Dottor. Pre-owned shoes rarely increase in value. Just look on Shoebay.(I made that up. There isn’t one) Your records are a solid investment, as well as bringing you pleasure.

    I tell my wife, when I go, take the records to a dealer. With the money you get, you can buy all the shoes in the world.

    I should say I don’t think I have ever won this argument. I have too many records, and that’s a fact, apparently.

  52. bill Says:

    With more knowledge comes more controversy. Fred’s book seems to contradict Allan Songer’s point that any deep groove after 4059 is a second. Fred lists every permutation of deep groove after 4059 as original. Was the new equipment ALWAYS used for the first run as Allan stated? Can anyone shed any light on this?

  53. Katharsis Says:

    That’s an interesting point.
    I was always wondering, why the heck a DG should be a second pressing, because I somehow doubt, that they decided to use these old dies, when having others.
    But my collection is so little, how can I tell.
    Please, shed light!

  54. dottorjazz Says:

    transition periods are the most difficult to keep clear:I’m still waiting for the book but I’m sure that not everything will be brought to light.

  55. Frederick Cohen Says:

    For the benefit of Blue Note collectors and/or readers of the pressing guide, I would like to bring to their attention to the recent eBay sale of Kenny Drew “Undercurrent” on Blue Note 4059.
    The vinyl was in virtually new condition; the jacket showed minor wear (you can find the complete description as eBay #300517372359). What made this copy interesting is the lack of the deep groove on Side 2 and the “Review Copy” stamp on both the Side 2 label and the back slick. This is the first time I have seen a label-stamped review copy of Undercurrent and it raises the issue once again as to the definition of an “original” pressing: is it a record, regardless of any other consideration, that includes all the details – such as a deep groove – that collectors look for, or is it the first issue of that record? It is my impression that the presence of the “Review Copy” stamp on the label is a very strong indication that the “original” Undercurrent pressing had no deep groove.
    Blue Note frequently stamped “Review Copy or “Audition Copy” on the jacket only, making it possible to substitute another copy of the same record. But the presence of the “Review Copy” stamp on the label would suggest that it was the first pressing – sent to magazines and writers prior to its official release. The only exception to this might be in an instance where a record did not sell well and a second group of review copies was distributed. The fact that Kenny Drew never recorded another session as a leader for Blue Note as well as the general scarcity of “original” pressings of Undercurrent leads me to believe that the record’s poor reception in stores might possibly have encouraged Blue Note to try a second distribution of review copies. But that is speculation.
    Historically, the presence of a “Review Copy” stamp on the label or cover has usually depressed the value of a Blue Note in the eyes of collectors. What is interesting in this latest sale is that the final bid of $1202.77 for a “Review Copy” was the second highest price ($1311) that Popsike shows for the June 2010 sale of a standard “original” pressing.
    My point is that once the deep groove no longer appears consistently on both sides of Blue Note pressings, deciding what is and is not an “original” is difficult, if not impossible.

  56. Katy Says:

    To Mike: In response to your earlier post (regarding Blue Note for which the labels do not match: *Side 1 has the “47 West 63rd NEW YORK 23? label while *Side 2 has the “47 WEST 63rd NYC” label) when you had left me this comment:-(Mike Says:
    January 7th, 2011 at 12:55 am):
    -1575, like 1577 should have the NY23 on one side only. I don’t believe(but would love to be disproven) that it has ever been seen with NY23 on both. Also, no Inc or R should be found and the W63 address should be on the back. Katy B are you selling?”-

    Katy says(to Mike):
    I’m now trying to respond, YES, If you still have interest in city lights *copy, please let me know & I’ll discuss this further with you Mike, the copy does not have the details that you described in your above post, I’ll list the specific details again if you’d like me to. Wait to hear from u Mike, Thank U. – Katy

    Katy B are you selling

  57. Mike Says:

    No thanks Katy but I appreciate the offer.

  58. Katy Says:

    Okay, u’r Welcome. :)

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