Are there any gamblers out there? Here are some interesting items from a seller in Italy, including : Art Taylor, AT’s Delight, Blue Note 4047. The seller describes this record, as well as a bunch of other jazz collectibles, as being from his grandfather’s collection. There is no mention on any of these listings about some of the characteristics you’d want to see on a Blue Note to determine it’s provenance. No mention of deep grooves, addresses on the label, RVGs, ears, etc. Yet . . . if you look at the picture, you get the sense that perhaps they are originals. Or could they be someone else’s pictures? The seller does not accept returns. Perhaps we’re back to being skeptical again, since this is around the two-year anniversary of the great eBay Nautiluso fraud, from Italy. Clearly, others are skeptical as well, based on the price of this record and other listings from this seller. This one, listed in M- condition for the record and the cover, is now at $260. Here’s another from the same batch: Sonny Clark, Cool Struttin’, Blue Note 1588. This is described as being in M- condition and a U.S. pressing, but all of the other important data is not included in the listing. The bidding on this has gone to $585 and the auction is closing in a few hours. Under normal circumstances, what would an M- copy of this sell for — $3,000, $4,000?
It’s been a few weeks since we’ve heard anything new on the Nautiluso Jazz Vinyl Fraud. We’ll place a call into eBay after the holiday weekend to see if they have more information, but there has been no new feedback on Nautiluso and nothing from the Berlin police about any arrests. We imagine eBay would like to put this to rest and has probably paid off all of the victims. One of our readers and loyal commentators, Gregorious, was doing a blog entry on the fraud for The Our Stage Blog and asked us for some comments on the fraud. This is what we said:
“I’m always watching records for the Jazz Collector site. When I saw the group of records that Nautiluso had for that week I was pretty stunned: It was probably the best collection I’d ever seen in one week. I posted an item about it and immediately started getting comments and emails from collectors who
Dec 7, 2009 Jazz Vinyl Fraud
Here’s an update on some of the stuff going on in the Jazz Collector world.
Nothing new from eBay on the Nautiluso Jazz Vinyl Fraud. I had sent a follow-up note asking specifically what eBay was doing about paying off victims of the scam and I haven’t gotten a response. I’ll follow up sometime today or tomorrow. I’m sure they’re sick of hearing from me. Also, there’s no new feedback on the profile page for Nautiluso. Frankly, I’m surprised eBay still has the page up and available.
Some of the Jazz Collector readers have commented offline about the fraud, presumably because they wanted to be anonymous on the site. I will share excerpts here:
Dec 3, 2009 Jazz Vinyl Fraud
Well, our persistence paid off. We finally got a response from eBay media relations today on the Nautiluso case and it’s a doozy: The company says it has filed a criminal complaint with the Berlin Police. Here’s the full text of the reply:
“I have an short update for you and your readers. I appreciate your patience and I’m sure you understand that an international investigation takes time. You can tell your readers that eBay is continuing to investigate this matter and has filed a criminal complaint with the Berlin Police. This is all the detail I can provide at this time.”
That’s all we have for now, but it’s really fascinating and gives us hope that we’ll eventually get to the bottom of what actually happened. Also, I went through all of our
As Rudolf pointed out in a comment yesterday, Nautiluso, perpetrator of the Jazz Vinyl Fraud of 2009, is no longer a registered user on eBay, so the public information about him is slowly starting to disappear. There was a point at which he had a My World page, but that is gone. You can still see on eBay that he had been a member since June 8, 2003 – in Germany. Personally, I’m not sure he was ever based in Brazil: It’s likely he had an accomplice mail from a Brazil mailing address because he believed it would provide a safe haven. The thing about this guy is, for several years he was probably a legitimate seller and probably used his real name in communicating with customers. I will tell you the name he used: Thomas Lamprecht. If you had any dealings with him, please let us know. What’s also starting to disappear from eBay are
Tags: Jazz Vinyl Fraud
Here’s a quick update on the Nautiluso Fraud:
I contacted media relations at eBay on Monday with a bunch of questions. Still no response. I’ll follow up today. Still trying to find out if they are acknowledging a fraud, if they are pressing charges against the perpetrator and if they are consistently reimbursing victims.
There are two new instances of negative feedback on Nautiluso if you check out his profile here. These are from a classical buyer from the same auction. He was ripped off to the tune of about $3,400 and says on his feedback that eBay refunded his money. So far, everyone we’ve heard from directly has
Brian makes an interesting point in his comment in the article on the buyers filing $30,000 in claims against Nautiluso. He notes in the earlier fraud that emanated from Italy, most, if not all, of the buyers were made whole by PayPal. He mentions a maximum of $2,000, but I think there actually is no maximum. I spoke to one of the Nautiluso buyers yesterday who spent more than $2,000 and was fully reimbursed by PayPal and was asked not to talk about it, so I won’t mention his name. We also heard from one of our readers that he has already been reimbursed by PayPal. The challenge for organizations like eBay and PayPal is that their business model is predicated on creating a safe buying and selling environment, so something like this poses a major challenge to them. At the end of the day, they don’t want the negative publicity
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Read the rest of this entry »
No major new updates on Nautiluso. I spoke to media relations at eBay again this morning and posed a bunch of questions, such as: Is eBay ready to declare this a fraud? If so, are they pressing charges and, if so, where? What about the probable victims — who gets protected and who doesn’t? It will be interesting to see how they respond. I’m hoping to speak to someone directly in eBay corporate, no offense to the media relations person who is quite nice and friendly. I haven’t seen any new complaints or negative feedbacks on the eBay profile of Nautiluso, but they haven’t pulled it down yet either, so that’s a good thing, since it is a place we can keep monitoring events if eBay is not forthcoming with information. I did notice that Nautiluso doesn’t have any items posted this week.
In the past two days five buyers have filed 21 instances of negative feedback against Nautiluso and have indicated in their feedback posts that they have filed claims with eBay. The actual number of records involved was higher — 24 records in total — because some of the feedback actually registered as positive, accidentally we presume. You can check out the feedback comments here, but here are some samples:
“Buyers be aware! 10/10 jazz auction was a mere fake; you’ll never get your recs!”
“Never received the record. No communication from seller. Claim filed with Paypal”
“Never received the item, filed claim with Ebay and Paypal…”
“Records never delivered. There is not a response at all either.”
If those comments are not bad enough here is the piece de resistance, from a classical buyer:
“The contents are 100% different Useless trash Search with Q123Q word.”
So the assumption on that last buyer is that he received a package from Nautiluso, probably timed to arrive after the 45-day time limit for filing a claim with eBay, and the contents of the package were not relective of those that he had won on the auction. We’ll do more reporting on this later today and tomorrow, but so far the tally is as follows:
Tags: Jazz Record Fraud
The question about Nautiluso: Is it a fraud or just a case of an incompetent seller in completely over his head? With each passing day and new revelation it seems as if the fraud scenario is increasingly likely. If you are a buyer of one of the records and are concerned that perhaps it was a fraud, the time to act is now, particularly if you
If we’re going to get to the bottom of the Nautiluso case, eBay is probably not going to be all that helpful, based on the initial response from their public relations people to our inquiries. We posed a few questions and actually had hoped to speak to someone directly at eBay, but we wound up talking to a PR person from an outside firm and she relayed the questions and relayed the responses. We’ll follow up again after the Thanksgiving holiday. Meanwhile, this is what eBay has to say about Nautiluso:
Duonri reminded me that I didn’t include this record from Nautiluso in the list: Jackie McLean, The New Tradition, Ad Lib 6601. This was listed in M- condition and wound up selling for $4,036, the highest price we’ve ever recorded for a jazz record on the Jazz Collector Price Guide. So I went back to the original listing in order to record it, and I noticed something I hadn’t noticed before: The seller says this one has the RVG in the deadwax? The question I ask: Is this possible — does an original pressing of The New Tradition have the RVG in the deadwax, or did he just make that up? I would have looked in my own collection for the answer but, unfortunately, I sold my copy of The New Tradition for a mere $400 nearly 20 years ago. Many of you may have heard this story before, but I sold a bunch of my rarest records in one shot so I could buy a boat. Six months later
We finally tracked down one of the buyers from the Nautiluso auction. Paul Sagerman is a collector in Tuscon, Ariz. He had purchased the LP: Thelonious Monk Plays Duke Ellington on Riverside. It was an original pressing in near mint condition and the price was between $500 and $600. Sagerman was the one who had original filed the negative feedback on Nautiluso back on October 14 when he suspected that the auction was not legitimate. However, he withdrew the negative feedback after he learned that the seller would accept Pay Pal. So far, Sagerman has not received his record and has filed a dispute with eBay. Originally, Sagerman said he had planned to bid on about 20 records, but was concerned when the seller did not respond to his questions. “I asked for a scan of the label, a scan of the back cover and
Tags: Thelonious Monk
I just looked back again at the records we were watching from Nautiluso and the numbers are staggering. Here are some of the prices that we recorded:
Hank Mobley, Blue Note 1568: $3,805
Sonny Clark, Cool Struttin’, Blue Note 1588: $3,750
Tina Brooks, True Blue: $3,249.99
Jutta Hipp With Zoot Sims: $3,242.99
J.R. Monterose, Blue Note 1536: $2,247.22
Tommy Flanagan Overseas: $2,247
Bill Evans, Waltz For Debby: $1,500
Hank Mobley, Blue Note 1540: $1,705
Lou Donaldson, Quartet, Quintet, Sextet: $1,175
That’s a total of about $23,000 for just nine records. Perhaps these were the ones that sold for the highest prices but, still, with 75 jazz records that week, you could still be looking at $60,000 or more. Maybe it’s not Bernie Madoff territory, but in our little world of Jazz Collectors it is quite a score if, indeed, the records don’t exist.
A couple of readers have already pointed this out in various comments: The feedback is starting to come in on Nautiluso and it is not very promising. One buyer has issued two feedback reports, stating the same thing: “Records never delivered from Oct. 16 purchase . Have opened claim with eBay.” Both of these claims were for classical records, but the notes are ominous, as is the fact that so far there has been zero feedback from the huge jazz auction we were watching: Nothing at all. If you go back to our original report on this alleged Jazz Vinyl Collection, we had pinpointed about 75 records, in pristine condition, all among the rarest of the rare in the world of jazz collectibles: Jackie McLean on Ad-Lib, Tina Brooks True Blue, Hutta Hipp on Blue Note, and many, many more. We were somewhat skeptical and many visitors to Jazz Collector
Tags: Jazz Vinyl on eBay
It’s been more than a month since the now-famous — or perhaps infamous — auction from the seller Nautiluso. I use the words famous and infamous quite loosely, of course, but it was certainly a major topic here in our limited world of Jazz Collector. Anyway, there is no feedback yet from this auction. None, zero, nil. I reached out this morning to someone who knows someone who knows someone who won a record and the record has not yet arrived. Hmmmm. I know many of you were suspicious in the first place and I’m sure this information does nothing to dispel the whiff of fraud you perhaps had scented in the air. If anyone in our audience has first-hand knowledge of anything — a record that arrived, or a record that clearly didn’t arrive — please let us know. At some point, if there’s no information forthcoming, we will contact eBay directly and see what they may have to say about it. For those of you new to the site and unaware of this auction, just type “Nautiluso” in the search bar at the top right of the page and you’ll be able to see all of the articles and comments dating back to our first post on the topic from October 5.
Jackie McLean, Jackie’s Pal, Prestige 7068. This one was in M- condition for both the record and the cover and it was another one out of the batch from Nautiluso. The price was $896. While we were there, we checked out whether there’s any new feedback on this seller from the amazing collection of a few weeks ago. So far, there’s nothing new to report. We’ll keep looking.
Art Farmer Quintet Featuring Gigi Gryce, Prestige 7017. This was an original New York yellow-label pressing and was offered by Euclid Records. The record was VG++ and the cover was M-. The price was $203.50, which is a bit more than we’ve seen in the past for this record, but certainly well deserved as an early Prestige with some great artists.
Curtis Fuller, New Trombone, Prestige 7107. This was an original New York pressing, also
We’ve been tracking jazz records on eBay for about five years and have built a database of more than 4,000 records. We don’t claim to have captured the sale of every high-priced record on eBay, but we’ve gotten more than our fair share. And, today, we will be entering into the Jazz Collector Price Guide, the highest-priced jazz vinyl we’ve recorded to date, and that is this: Hank Mobley, Blue Note 1568. This was an original U.S. pressing and it was listed in M- condition for both the record and the cover. It sold for $3,805. The previous highest price that we had recorded was for a copy of Sonny Clark, Cool Struttin, Blue Note 1588, which sold for $3,750. It is noteworthy that the Mobley record was sold by the seller Nautiluso, who had that massive collection of about 75 vintage jazz records that were all listed in pristine condition and which generated a little bit of skepticism within the Jazz Collector universe. We’ll continue to keep an eye out for comments on these auctions and we’ll continue to encourage winning bidders to let us know about the condition of their LPs. In addition
So there’s more on the big auction last week by the seller Nautiluso: The buyer who left the negative feedback yesterday? He has rescinded the negative feedback. His exact comment is: “Seller now agrees to accept Pay Pal. Emails appear to be legitimate.” It will be interesting to see what happens and whether the buyers are happy with the condition of their records. I will say that there is a strong tendency in the community to suspect fraud: In addition to what appeared on the Jazz Collector site, I received a few emails from people quite skeptical that this auction was for real. My personal feeling was to give the seller the benefit of the doubt, based on the fact that he
We’ve been off line for a couple of days, just got back, went to My Ebay and noticed that the auctions of the seller Nautiluso are now in the midst of closing. Wow! Wait till you see these prices. Here’s a start:
Jutta Hipp with Zoot Sims, Blue Note 1530. Like most of the others in this group, this was listed in M- condition for both the record and the cover. The price was $3,342.99.
J.R. Monterose, Blue Note 1536. Condition: M- for record and cover. Price: $2,247.22
Lou Donaldson, Quartet, Quintet, Sextet, Blue Note 1537. Condition: M-. Price: $1,175
Hank Mobley With Donald Byrd and Lee Morgan, Blue Note 1540. Condition: M-. Price: $1,705.
Tommy Flanagan Overseas, Prestige 7134. Condition: M-. Price: $2,247.
Bill Evans, Waltz For Debby, Riverside 399. Condition: M-
As noted, this is just a small sampling. There will be more to come. It would be great if some of the winners of this vinyl will report back to us on the condition and whether these records are, indeed, as pristine as they seem.
Have you seen the jazz vinyl being sold this week on eBay by the seller nautiluso?We are quite agape and agog. There are a good 75 classic jazz collectibles — Blue Notes, Prestiges, Transitions — and most of them seem to be original pressings in very nice condition. The seller is from Rio de Janeiro and says in the listings that they are from his personal collection. His eBay feedback is pretty good, not stellar, and he normally seems to sell a mix of jazz and classical records. The items he has listed this week are a pretty nice jazz collection unto themselves. We’ll post a few of the records here, but it would be worth your time to click one of these and look at the seller’s other items as well.
Jackie McLean, The New Tradition, Ad Lib 6601. This is one of the rarest of the jazz collectibles — could it be the rarest? — and this copy is listed in M- condition for both the record and the cover. In the Jazz Collector Price Guide we’ve twice recorded this one selling for more than $3,000. This one