I am not, I must admit, among the most serious of collectors. I know this sounds odd coming from the guy who writes about jazz records every day, pores over eBay listings to decide which records to put in the Price Guide and writes articles under the headline “Confessions of a Vinyl Addict.”

However, and this gets to Jan’s point: The copy of Saxophone Colossus in my collection is a Bergenfield, N.J. pressing. Same with Tenor Madness. I have the Bergenfield copies, they are in great condition, they have yellow labels, this is enough for me. I have the music in an early pressing, it sounds great, I’m OK. Would I like a New York pressing of both of these records? Yes. Would I ever obsess about it? No. Would I ever pay the going rate on eBay for them? Not a chance.

The people I’ve always considered to be “serious collectors” wouldn’t accept these second pressings and are constantly hunting for the original pressings and would not be content with anything but an original. I do think, however, things are changing and the

characteristics of what people might consider to be a “collectible” record are expanding. I say this because we’re seeing it happen every day on eBay. Later Blue Notes and Prestiges, in particular, are selling for several hundred dollars, which, to me, is definitely a collectible price. In my view, a Bergenfield copy of Saxophone Colossus is a fine collectible. I’m proud to have it in my collection and I do believe it will go up in value rather than down in value.

The other point I’d like to make about this is that it’s still about the music. I’d rather have a second pressing or third pressing or Japanese reissue of music I love, rather than an original pressing of music that doesn’t move me. But that’s me. What about you other “experienced” and “serious” collectors out there? How would you respond to Jan’s question?

that this LP was issued late and there are no pressings with the New York address. So it is one more exception to the rule. If you click on this item, you should also look at the other items on eBay this week from Jazz Record Center. They always post interesting items and they are also a good gauge of the overall market.

“Put simply, there were special dies attached to the pressing machine, that held down the stampers for Side A and Side B during manufacturing.  These dies traditionally cut the deep groove into the label during a pressing.  In 1961 new dies were created that were more streamlined, holding down the stampers in place but putting the mere slight indentation into the label – what we see on modern pressings and call NO DG.

“These parts were interchangeable and compatible with the machines, so for the period

1961 to 1965 the one side-DG pressings occurred when an old, obsolete die was used on one side of the record and one of the new dies was used on the other side.  Similarly, we find late pressings that are DG, such as Night of the Cookers, caused by using leftover old dies. By 1966 when pressings were shifted entirely to the three Liberty national plants there were only NO DG disks because Liberty did not use any of the old, obsolete dies.

“The important thing here is to realize that it is merely a function of a small, accessory part and has nothing to do with the stampers or the pressing machines themselves. I often run into self-appointed experts who have built up a whole mythology about the relationship of the DG to the grooves, sound, etc., but it is merely an identifier caused by the use of these specific dies, mere attachments in the process that literally leave their mark on the finished disk.

“I had Bob Porter, the DJ/producer who has always lived in New Jersey, do some research for me on the Plastylite subject about ten years ago, and  he found a Russian-speaking contact who knew nothing about the history of the company he apparently inherited, but as far as I know they are long gone.  Blue Notes recently (say a Bird & the Bee or Al Green vinyl LP) are pressed by Caroline Distribution, a local company and of course RTI handles the mastering and pressings on the West Coast for the various competing reissue companies licensing Blue Note.

“The very cheap, low-quality issues you see in the marketplace, identifiable by the 304 Park Ave. South address on labels and jacket slicks, are produced by a New Jersey company named Scorpio Music. In my Blue Note research I accumulate as many Plastylite pressings as possible, often grabbing the defective or Poor quality copies other people eschew, and am still busy working on my own book – which documents all the identifiers of individual stampers by locating and describing the P in the runoff (its shape, and orientation relative to the constant Catalog Matrix No. from the Master) for each disk – a unique signature left by each individual A & B stamper in existence.  In the last two or three years I only rarely come across new (to me), unknown stampers, so I’m over the hump on that project.”

“Here’s some information on the Edges/Rims. The change from Flat Rim (aka Flat Edge) to Safety Lip occurred in 1957. It was in response to new industry standards, occasioned by the popularity of automatic changers, whereby disks were routinely stacked and would fall on each other, the way we recall handling 45rpm disks. To lessen the damage to the LPs, the Safety Lip, also called a Groove Guard by one of the companies, was created at the edge of each side of the disk to keep the actual surfaces of the two disks from touching each other when they came into horizontal contact. It also protected the needle, since

on a flat edge disk the needle can slip off the edge and drop down, hitting the platen when it is in Automatic turntable mode (you have to be a clutz to do this placing the needle at the beginning of the record manually!).

For Blue Note the changeover occurred during the 63^rd NEW YORK 23 label era. ALL of the original Lexington releases were flat edge, both for the 1500 and the 1200 series, but the latter 63^rd NEW YORK 23 albums were pressed and released after the switch to Safety Lip stampers, so they only exist in that format. I will get to the catalogue numbers in a minute.

What I discovered in my research was a very significant fact (which can be quickly verified by any collector by checking his collection of 1955-1958 era Blue Notes): The stamper itself causes the flat edge to occur on a disk, and likewise the Safety Lip, not some attachment or function of the press. So when Blue Note switched to Safety Lips they had to create all new stampers – both for repressing/reissues and for new releases. My ‘eureka’ moment for discovering this is when I compared the Runoff vinyl identification for each disk and found that NO flat edge Blue Note bears the same Runoff id of its stamper (namely the unique shape and positioning of the stamper’s inscribed P (for Plastylite) as a safety lip Blue Note of the same title! They are always different – new stampers had to be ordered for any safety lip pressing.

The catch is that the Old Stampers (flat rim stampers) for various titles were not thrown away immediately, but retained for a few months –then all were discarded. I ascertained this by correlating the various characteristics for each title to see what exists and what never existed, e.g., there is no such thing as a Blue Note flat edge disk with an R or INC on the label (characteristics introduced in 1959 after the label incorporated). Stereo was not introduced until 1959 so by definition no flat edge stereos exist at all. But within the mono sphere, it is impossible to find a NEW YORK USA disk with flat edge, or an INC 63^rd NYC inscribed label with flat edge.

The timing of the changeover is (approximately) as follows:

(1) November 1955: 12” LPs were introduced by BN, using the old 767 Lexington Ave. blank foreground labels previously used for 10” LPs. All pressings flat edge. No more 10” LPs in the U.S., although later reissues in that obsolete format for European sales were made.

(2) January 1957: 63^rd NEW YORK 23 labels were first printed, and flat edge disks pressed with them.  Already preprinted Lexington labels (for previously released older titles) were kept in stock and available for 2^nd pressings –retained indefinitely (Lexington labels appear even on some Liberty (no P) pressings 10 years after being printed for this reason).

(3) July 1957: Safety Lip stampers created, first used for the release of BLP 1562 (Horace) and BLP 1561 (Sabu). That same month the previously manufactured Lee Morgan 1557 was also released to the stores but it was still FLAT RIM, the final  flat disk issued by Blue Note.

(4) August 1957: The newly redesigned labels, inscribed 63^rd NYC, are introduced, first used for the release of Curtis Fuller 1567. As in #3 above, there was a coexistence with the old 63^rd NEW YORK 23 label based on when a title was PREPARED for release as opposed to its ACTUAL debut in the stores. NO 63^rd NYC label was ever used for a flat edge first pressing, though many show up on flat edge 2^nd pressings.

(5) By mid-1958: No more flat edge disks were pressed, even for reissues/late pressings. All new releases had been Safety Lip disks since 8/57, but many older titles continued to be pressed and sold using the leftover Flat Edge stampers for their manufacture. At some point in 1958 these Flat Edge stampers were discarded.

The claim in #5 is established by inference. I looked through all the anomalies and they are mainly identifiable by FLAT EDGE DISKS bearing the 63^rd NYC label. No original Blue Note first pressing was ever released in this format, combining 63^rd NYC label on a flat edge disk. All such specimens occurred by using the in-stock flat edge stampers for an older title, but combining that with a newly-printed 63^rd NYC label for that title –for popular records the need to replenish the labels was there. Among the many examples of these odd birds are notably the Monk LPs 1510 and 1511, both of which exist 63^rd NYC flat edge. Others in this category include 1201, 1504, 1512, 1514, 1518, 1521, 1531, 1539, 1540, 1542 (all of these were issued originally as Lex, years before), plus 1544, 1548 and 1554 (63^rd NEW YORK 23 originals).

Every Lexington Blue Note, ranging from 1201-1205 and 1501-1543, was initially issued flat edge.  Any Lexington seen with a safety lip is automatically a second pressing. Many of these titles (the more popular ones) were reissued as Lexingtons with safety lips using the new stampers created in 1958 and 1959. Had Blue Note (ever-frugal) retained the old stampers indefinitely, then such Lexington safety lip beasts would be few and far between, since recurring demand for new pressings would have been satisfied using the old stampers. By the time new stampers would be required the Lexington labels would have been used up.

I’ve already listed all the catalog numbers issued Lex flat rim. The 63^rd NEW YORK USA flat rim original first pressings are: 1544-1550, 1554 and 1557. There are other 63^rd NEW YORK 23 flat disks that are 2^nd pressings (following Lex originals) such as the familiar 1502, 1503 and 1534.

The 63^rd NEW YORK safety lip original first pressings are: 1551-1552, 1555-1556, 1558-1559, 1561-1563, 1565, 1575-1576 and the anomalies 1568 and 1577 which were issued with that label on one side only (!).

To understand these strange patterns you have to note carefully the step-by-step process of each record going from recording session to final release to stores, with various delays along the way causing the discrepancies. This was especially the case with most Volume 2 records –often unreleased for a year or two after the Volume 1 came out, but assigned a catalog number consecutive with Volume 1 and given initial preparation (mastering, design) back with #1. Delayed release of 1516 caused it to have its cover constructed in a new fashion, not matching its peers’ covers (much to the consternation of Japanese collectors).  Put simply, jacket for 1516 looks like the jacket of 1546, NOT its close-by numbered brethren –it lacks the Gakubuchi frame lines across the top and spine on front.  Delay of 1597’s release caused all the disks to be made without the dg, which was no longer the norm when it finally debuted to stores in October 1961 (when Midnight Special 4078 debuted), more than 3 years after the release of 1596. Its first pressing back in 1958 BEFORE it was shelved comprises only a handful of copies. Such delays occurred right through the Liberty era, causing the odd look and characteristics of many albums such as Andrew!!! 84203 and Delightfulee, Lee Morgan 4243 & 84243.”

]]> http://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/blue-note-flat-edge-all-you-need-to-know/feed/ 5 http://jazzcollector.com/questions/a-reader-question-re-deep-groove-flat-edge/ http://jazzcollector.com/questions/a-reader-question-re-deep-groove-flat-edge/#comments Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:32:18 +0000 Al http://jazzcollector.com/?p=2457 Sorry I haven’t posted in a couple of days. Was stuck in a snowstorm without my computer. It was like being cut off from civilization. Anyway, I’m back and will soon get caught up on all I’ve missed in the Jazz Collector world. In the meantime, one of our readers posts a question for our readers: What is the derivation of the deep groove and the flat edge? Where they technical considerations that were later abandoned as the technology shifted? Were they specific to certain labels and pressing factories? It’s a good question and I’m sure searching deep on Google may provide an answer, but perhaps we can provide a shortcut and fodder for interesting conversation by asking it here. So, to all, whither the deep groove and the flat edge?

the boat sank. The records, I’m sure, are alive and well and sitting on some happy collectors’ shelves in Japan.