E-Baying: Billie, Stan, Sun Ra and More

Billie copy 2Here’s a record that has always intrigued me but I have never owned: Billie Holiday and Stan Getz, Billie and Stan, Dale 25. This was an original 10-inch pressing. It looked to be in VG+ condition for the record and probably VG++ for the cover. It sold for $317.99. I know very little about Dale records. I have a couple of 10-inch LPs, but I can’t think of a 12-inch LP. Based on the description of this record, it seems like it may have been a bootleg label. This was recorded from a radio broadcast from Storyville all the way back in 1951. I’ve never heard the record, and I’ve only seen it a couple of times, always at a price beyond my sensibilities. And, yes, $317.99 is still beyond my sensibilities.

Two readers separately sent me the link to this, which is listed as: Sun Ra Outtakes 1957 Acetate LP Unreleased Transition. This looks to be the real deal, music that was never issued from Sun Ra’s Transition sessions, as well as sessions featuring Dave Coleman, Joe Gordon and Roy Haynes. If you’re interested, you should read the entire listing for more details. The item is listed in VG condition and there are audio clips accompanying the listing as well. It is available at a buy-it-now price of $6,500 or you can make a best offer. As you all know this is not my area of interest/expertise, so if anyone would like to weigh in on this, please be our guest.

This one is in our area of interest: Curtis Fuller, New Trombone, Prestige 7107. This was an original New York yellow label listed in VG+ condition for the record and Ex for the cover. It sold for $510. The listing was very scant on the details, although there were a lot of good pictures. I think more description might have resulted in a higher price. This seller had — and still has — some nice Prestiges on eBay, including this one: Jackie McLean, Lights Out, Prestige 7035. This was an original New York yellow label listed in VG+ condition for both the record and the cover. The start price was $495 and, surprisingly, there were no bidders. If I didn’t have this record, and I was inclined to pay collectible prices, I’d think that was a pretty good deal for this great record. Fortunately, my copy is in quite pristine condition.


  • That Ra seller also has/had some beautiful examples of Ayler’s Bells and the Bird Notes recordings. I was tempted to plunk down on one of those Bells but just couldn’t get into four-figure territory. Non-baller here… as beautiful as those special-edition multicolor silkscreen pieces are.

  • Sigh my yellow vinyl “bells” is so ordinary..although I doubt I’d play it much more if I owned that beautiful tortoise shell vinyl version!

  • Bells is maybe the only record where first edition is still a mystery.
    I’ve seen more than a dozen different 60’s issues but never this one.
    looking at the pictures I see a reddish vinyl with gold writings BUT in another a bluish one with silver/white writing.
    Being the vinyl transparent, a colored lamp can easily change the appearance.
    So: is it “red tortoise” or “dark blue torquoise”?
    re Ayler on Bird Notes, I’ve seen two different items in my life.
    1) sold in March 1999 by an Italian dealer for US$ 6500/7000 to an Austrian collector. This copy had an Ayler’s photo on a preview cover. This copy came directly from the producer.
    2) my copy, bought in 2001 from an Italian collector who obtained it from Japan.
    both these copies are 4 tracks, matrix 2A-2C.
    in terms of rarity, BNLP-2 IS rare, not 1568.

  • Very true but I think there is far greater demand for 1568. With something like the Ayler bird note one has to find the “right” buyer hence the high buy it now price. Whereas 1568 can start at 99 cents routinely and fetch huge money.

  • yeah, the completed Bells sales show some really interesting ones. Perhaps “experimental” early editions, though that hand-pulled clear sleeve does seem like a “test” rather than anything that would’ve been sold at the time. The three volumes of Something Different!!! (only one was ostensibly released for sale during Ayler’s lifetime) are indeed rare or very rare and historically important although I don’t listen to the music as often as I do other Ayler recordings.

  • I contacted the seller of J McLean (Lights Out) and got the record for 400$. The grading was very conservative, the record is actually NM, it is going to be my final upgrade.

  • Well, the “Bells” that didn’t sell immediately (plus even more variations) and the three Bird Notes are now offered as auctions, along with some 70 other rare to véry rare (and desirable) records: advance editions of Albert Aylers’ “Spiritual Unity” and Ornette’s “At Town Hall” on ESP, “Chet Is Back” in its original triple gatefold, “Eric Dolphy in Europe”, Don Pullen & Milford Graves with the handpainted cover, the “Lenox School of Jazz 1959”, the list goes on and on…
    Does anyone know the origin of this collection?

  • I noticed the floodgates have opened! More variations of “bells” up and tons more including lots of Sun Ra (some not true original issues mind you) and the handpainted “live at Yale” which would look really nice sitting on my shelves but alas just a pipe dream for me!

    And all at $9.99 starts..so let’s see of some of these other “bells” reach the 4 figure mark via the auction route..

  • yeah, I’ll do a post on those auctions when all is said and done. A few of those pieces look to be rather “condition-y” on the covers and records… VG-, VG, so they may not do as much damage although they are presented very well.

  • Some of those original Chicago-era Sun Ras look pretty decent – We Travel and Space Ways, Nubians of Plutonia, Super Sonic Jazz, and esp. Jazz In Silhouette. Would love to know to whom this collection belonged!!

  • I inquired and it was a private collection not belonging to a musician(I asked). That’s all the info I got..

    Many of those Sun Ra titles are second issues..”jazz in silhouette” was first released with a silk screened cover. “We travel the spaceways” should be a blue label Saturn..this copy on auction has 70s era labels. “Night of the purple moon” should be a pink Saturn label, etc, etc.

  • Unfortunately, the typewritten program notes seem to be missing from the Pullen-Graves album. Looks like an otherwise desireable copy though. R

  • this “musician” they got it from obviously was a fixture in the industry as well. either an executive or a relative of Ayler or Ra. i may not be older but you do not see this stuff in one batch like this. and up in Maine? hmmm

  • who is the sax on the joe gordon/roy haynes clip, on the transition acetate?

  • geoffrey wheeler

    Re: Ten-inch Dale LP-25 Billie and Stan. One afternoon in the late Fall of 1951, I was visiting a school friend, David W., who lived about a block-and-a-half from me in Newton, Mass. We were playing bottle pool when David suggested we go upstairs. There was something he wanted to play for me. We went to his older brother’s room. There David showed me what I later learned was called a “transcription” disc. He said his brother worked at a recording studio and they had recorded this disc of Stan Getz playing with Billie Holiday. Both had performed at the same time at George Wein’s Storyville jazz club. I knew this from hearing one of Nat Hentoff’s half-hour broadcasts. I don’t recall what the disc looked like. A few years later (1954), I became aware of a 10-inch LP that contained tracks from this transcription disc but did not buy the LP. More years passed, when I bought a 12-inch LP titled “A Rare Live Recording of Billie Holiday” at Storyville, (Recording Industry Corp.) RIC M2001, released in 1964. This LP contained the same tracks as on the Dale LP, plus additional tunes recorded with different personnel that included Marquis Foster, who was a Storyville house drummer at the time. Dale LP-25 features a Burt Goldblatt cover. The back lists other 10-inch LPs (LP-21 through LP-25), a Max Shad production, issued by Dale Record Corporation, 145 W. 18th St., New York 11, N.Y. The other LPs contain tracks of 78 recordings originally issued on the Jax label (owned by Morty Shad), Sittin’ in With label (owned by both Bob and Morty Shad), and the Jade label (owned by Bob Shad). During the early part of his career. Bob was also associated with other labels: Savoy, National, Haven, and several others. Most irritatingly, various Bob Shad bios on the Internet focus on his activities in R&B and Blues and give barely any attention to his jazz connections. This speaks poorly to the sophistication of these Internet writers.

  • geoffrey wheeler

    Again, Re: Dale Record Corp. Two tracks (“Cobblestones” and “Prelude to a Kiss”) from Dale LP-24 featuring the John Hardee Quartet, plus other tracks from Bob Shad 78 labels, were reissued on Parliament 10-inch L.P. 50 “Variations of the Modern Saxophone.” Other tracks are devoted to Stan Getz, Paul Quinichette, and Allan (sic: Allen) Eager. No address is given on either the labels or the front cover; the back cover is solid black. I have not been able to find ANY reference to this LP in discographies. Given that all the material comes from Shad 78 labels, it is likely this is yet another Shad product.

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