Sealed Giant Steps? $2,025? Huh?
I know this is going to give some of you a heart attack: That sealed copy of Giant Steps of unknown provenance sold for $2,025.55. What happens with something like that? Does the buyer even open it? If he does, what if it’s just a standard red and green label? What happens? I think it’s amazing that this seller is able to get these prices for some of his offerings. But I do wonder if there’s an alternate reality going on that we’re not aware of, like whether there is one set of buyers that are completely rapt by his marketing wizardry and only bid on his stuff and are not bidding on any other records. Here are a couple of other auctions we were watching from him: Louis Armstrong at the Crescendo Volume 2, Decca 8169. This is a pretty routine record that you could probably find pretty regularly for $10 or $20 at a weekend record show. This one sold for $103.50. How about: Billie Holiday, Lady in Satin, Columbia 8048? This was a 6-eye stereo pressing. Nothing special, right? This one sold for $157.55. As I was copying the picture of Giant Steps, I took another look at the listing. Someone asked about the label and this was the seller’s reply:
“It is hard to say what label is inside, but I think that the odds of the winning bidder finding one of the two shown labels are exceedingly high — probably around 80% or so. The reason I am so confident is the inner sleeve, which I can see a small portion of through the opening side. It is a paper inner sleeve with a WIDE white margin. Why is the margin so important? The margin on the paper sleeve is of critical importance because, in all likelihood, the thumbnailed inner sleeve shows LESS album covers than on the subsequent, later versions. This is almost certainly an indicator that the album was pressed when Atlantic did not yet have as many LP releases under its belt as it would in the coming years, so it simply organized the ones it had in the center of the inner sleeve and left a wider margin around them. Sorry for not being able to be more specific. This is my gut feeling only, not an ironclad guaranteed. Thank you for your interest and kind regards Bob Djukic”
There is a certain brilliance to this, or something, don’t you think?
Hmm…he could have been a LOT more specific,as in”If it isn’t either one of the two shown I’ll gladly refund your bid.” But that would require a degree of trust on the part of the seller,wouldn’t it? Which is,seemingly,not the two-way street reputable dealers may have imagined it.
From that same batch of auctions: http://cgi.ebay.com/BOB-MARLEY-WAILIN-WAILERS-ORIG-JAMAICAN-STUDIO-1-LP-/140397584561
That’s him selling an “original” Studio 1 pressing. Except check the very bottom of the auction for the Q&As where someone points out that it’s a repress from the 80’s.
I’m sorta stating the obvious here, but can you imagine who would buy this argument? As though Atlantic only had, what?, 16 records at the time Giant Steps was released and “organized the ones it had in the center…” AND that this is discernable from the narrow edge of an inner sleeve behind shrink?!??!?
Who is this guy and who buys his stuff? I have some Herbie Mann (on Atlantic!) I wouldn’t mind unloading. I’d even settle for a 70 – 30 spit in his favour.
Wait..did I just admit to having Herbie Mann records?
From my point of view Mr. Djukic just gives the market what the market wants – though I dont apreciate the results. In the end we are all gamblers (at least sometimes)in hunting music, records, labels, first pressings and search the thrill in obtaining rare stuff. I have to admit that this virus has stuck me and I think most of you as well. Mr. D. now offers the biggest thrill: You are not sure about the item you bid on. Obviously this gives the final kick to some ebay-users – otherwise the 2000+ USD have not occured.
I am not a fan of this – but I have purchased records from Mr. D. in the past (always unsealed copies) and everything was very fine. The grading was conservative, communication was nice and friendly and the delivery was fast. Even – in my cases – the prices were nice – so nothing to complain. Though one question stays: Where do he find all these sealed copies???
Perhaps he finds them in the basement next to his shrink-wrapping machine.
I looked at the bidding history on many LPs from one of his auctions a while back. Was compelled to do this to try and figure out who in the world would pay $700 for a copy of the million selling Brubeck Time Out. And three bidders were among the top bidders on approx 70% of the LPs he sold in the auction. And if you looked at the personal bid history of each of those three bidders, they mostly bid on this guy’s auctions. So, either they love his “brand” and feel like his used jazz LPs are worth a premium to other folks’ used jazz LPs or you need to come up with some other conclusion.
as Brian concluded, there must be addicts around, who hail the bloke as the allmighty supplier of used vinyl. This attraction for some, translates necessarily, for others, into the opposite: a repulsion and rejection of the noisy, screaming and tasteless sales talk of this gentleman. What a pleasure to read a description by Jazzrecordcenter for instance.
…Sounds like there may be some “insider bidding” going on here with a few “phantom” e-bay accounts working to inflate the price. I am sure we will find out what was in this proverbial crackerjack box once the buyer receives the LP and post’s their feedback. Time will tell if this guy is on the level or not. The sad fact is that no matter what the outcome, a seller is not directly responsible in the long run, the buyer is much more at fault for tossing the dice on such an obvious crap-shoot ! Wouldn’t it be cheaper just to buy a sure thing in near mint condition ?
…I concur with Rudolf. The last thing we need on ebay is another “dog & pony” show posting. If you have watched the Ridley Scott film ‘American Gangster’, you have probably heard the quote: “the loudest one in the room is the weakest one in the room.” and in this case I think these type of “loud” postings are really overcompensating for a sub-standard product. (Like a guy who buys a Hummer or pick-up…heh heh) All we really need is an accurate description of the key elements with some solid photos to ensure that there is little doubt about the vintage when we place that bid. Besides, when combing through hundreds of postings, who has time to read the sellers life story these days ? To a greater extent, who cares ??
Hey,don-lucky! Re:regarding a seller’s life story,what makes that ‘story’ any more accurate than their description of the record listed? Funny thing regarding descriptions. Someone like Fred at JRC may list,say,”Freddie Hubbard on Blue Note” and get all the page hits-and the bids-that anyone might want. How does he do it? Reliable product,service,word of mouth,return customers. It’s a simple equation that successful dealers swear by. Less reliable dealers may find success for a while,but when confronted with the numbers rsearched by Brian(which,if accurate are damning)usually fade into obscurity. Or,better still,move on when the list of the gullible dries up.
Collectors could fill chapters of a book with stories of Mr. D. I have actually met him on several occasions and sold a few records to him over the years (but always kept to my price). Actually, a dealer I know sold him that Beach Boys Surfin USA LP for 15 dollars (he talked him down from 25) and then Mr. D sells it on ebay for 543 dollars!! 543 dollars for a copy of Surfin USA!!!!!! what is going on here! But for real, the guy is not a joke and he is not shrinkwrapping records and he knows what he is doing. Check out his feedback- the dude has been selling on ebay for years and consistently delivers a product that has attracted a stalwart legion of wealthy buyers. I don’t get it at all. While I am not the biggest fan of the guy when dealing with him at record shows, he is doing something right. But god only knows what that is…
But let me point as well that yes, he is also wrong on many occasions when talking about his records as being original. I wonder what his return rate is like?
To Jason: This Bob Marley and the Wailers LP Mr. D. offered was very symbolic for the whole auction. Anyone interested in the Reggae-Market (not sure how many on this blog are – but I have quite some knowledge …. especially in the 60s there are fantastic Jazz Albums from Jamaica)could easily see from the label that this pressing was a re-release from approx 1985. Under “normal” conditions this record would go for maybe 30 USD – the last time I checked it was on 288 USD with still some hours to go – which is far more than a solid original would bring….crazy!!!
To Jason W again: The Bob Marley LP sold for 970 USD!!!! Not bad for a record which goes normally for 30 or maybe 50!!!
You really should not say bad things about ths seller. His auction listings may seem dubious, but a quick review of his feedback should assure that people are happy with their puchases. I have purchased about twenty records from him and found them to be accurately graded and timely shipped. As a record collector, one should only be happy that prices are being inflated on fairly routine records.
…Some of us collect records for the music, and as a way of connecting with a specific time and place in Jazz history. Not everyone is out to make a buck off the sometimes obvious ineptitude of others. The most reputable sellers on ebay operate on a policy of full disclosure when it comes to selling vintage LP’s, but when someone out there in ebay land designs postings to “skirt” the fact that the goods they may be selling are potentially not what they have lead the buyer to believe, this becomes reason enough to complain. (Especially if you were the poor bastard who just paid $2025.55 for an LP that could very well be worth $25 on pure speculation)Even that is not so much the issue, it is really just a general commentary on the way people choose to do business on ebay, Bob was just an example…. If you have a solid product then there really is no need for all the “fluff” and marketing strategy. Seriously, why play games, when you can just get strait to the point ? (Note: Feedback is often not the greatest indicator anyway, as many of us only leave a ‘positive’ to receive a ‘positive’ in return… Otherwise, if you can’t say something nice, I don’t bother posting feedback at all to avoid any potential retribution.
Don-lucky:Yikes! You say when it comes to leaving negative feedback you “don’t bother posting feedback at all to avoid any potential retribution.” That really is what dishonest sellers are betting on,isn’t it? You can say that dishonest advertising is “reason enough to complain”,yet choose not to use the one vehicle that has the potential to be the most useful tool that Ebay offers…the feedback system. What can anyone do that is more helpful than sell goods that are honestly appraised,while leaving feedback that is equally truthful in it’s wording. Call me naive,but I’ve nearly a thousand transactions with only one negative(and that was given by someone who tried to distort the system much as you describe it:sell me this at the price I feel is fair or I will leave feedback accordingly. What a joke! But it was one that clearly ran against the tone and feel of my numerous comments,making it evident that the negative remark was an abberration,if not an outright lie. Here’s hoping that you-and others of like mind-reconsider. The Ebay experience can be far more rewarding than it’s been,but we need all of the honest sellers and bidders to make it so,one item at a time.
You make an interesting case CeeDee… In my last comment, I was really just attempting to point out that feedback may not be the most accurate indicator of someone’s character because of the stigma attached to leaving negative feedback. I didn’t mean to discourage the practice. In an ideal environment, it would be used responsibly as you pointed out.
…For the most part, the majority of people I have had the pleasure of dealing with on ebay have been quite reasonable if (and when) a problem had arisen. Personally, I have yet to come across anyone who has been worthy of such a nasty “tongue lashing” in the feedback realm. Usually I prefer to just work it out with the individual off-line until the issue is resolved. I suspect if ever I have the misfortune of dealing with one of ebay’s infamous ‘Nautiluso’ dealers out there, then I would probably leave a negative comment. Feedback is definitely something to be earned, but it can also be something constructive without starting a war in the process… Unfortunately, this is far too often the result in these matters. In a way the Jazz Collective has become a valuable means of “profiling” potential and even serial con-artists out there who have managed to leave a trail of victims in the wake of there sterling reputations…
Good or bad, i will daily check the feedback for this 2000 + Giant Steps lp….
In case Bob D or any other amused parties are interested to know, I picked up a (VG- but only $2) black label giant steps at a record fair today and the inner sleeve has a full 42(!) album pictures on it. Ha.
In regards to the Giant Steps, the address on the back of the cover would seem to be indicative of either the black or bullseye label. I have the bullseye & the white fan. My white fan label has the Broadway address on the reverse. My bullseye has the 57th St.
Bull’s eye and black label Atlantics had both the 57th St. adress.