If It’s Monday it Must be Blue Note
Speaking of Hank Mobley, there’s this: Hank Mobley, Blue Note 1568. This is an original pressing and the seller has it in M-condition for the vinyl and excellent for the cover, which typically translate to VG+. There’s only a little more than a day left on the bidding and it’s only $660. I guess a lot of people are lurking in ambush. We’d still expect this to sell for more than $2,000, right?
Here’s a beauty from a seller with zero feedback who is selling his father’s collection, apparently one at a time starting with Kenny Dorham, Afro Cuban, Blue-Note 5065. He describes the record as VG++ and the cover as VG, but his experience is clearly limited so who knows? Pictures look pretty good to me, but the start price is a little rich for my blood: $350. There are no bidders, but I have a feeling it will sell.
And here would be the 12-inch version: Kenny Dorham, Afro-Cuban, Blue Note 1535. This one is M- for the record and VG++ for the cover. It is more than $300 already. Which begs the question: Which would you rather have, the 10-inch LP or the 12-inch LP? Of course, most of you will be inclined to say “both” but what if it were only one?
This is from the same seller as the Mobley: Kenny Dorham, Round ‘Bout Midnight at the Cafe Bohemia, Blue Note 1524. This looks to be an original Lexington Avenue pressing in M- condition for the vinyl and excellent condition for the cover. The current price is $255, but it should sell for much more.
Well, we may as well make it all Blue Note post: Lee Morgan, Indeed!, Blue Note 1538. This is an original Lexington Avenue pressing with the vinyl in M- condition and the cover VG+. The current price is $304. Again, we expect there are some collectors lurking in the sniping weeds for this and it will sell for much more. I guess we shall see, which is why we spend time watching these records.
i would say 1535, because i see the 1500,4000,4100 and 4200 series as one “gesamtkunstwerk”….as a whole…
but i think Rudolf would disagree?
me too:for example I’ve BN 5037,5038,5039 instead of 1521+1522,blakey birdland;c brown and l donaldson BN 5021,5030,5032;j j 5028,the first two g melle,but here you must have 10″;and bud 5003,but in this case I’ve all five 12″.
I’m pretty sure Rudolf WILL agree…
I would say 1535 for similar reason to Maarten. But also, in my limited comparing experience, I’ve found that the 12″ reissues of the 5000 series are a little quieter. This could be bias from a limited selection. Anyone else have any opinions on this? I own like 5 or 6 where I have both the 5000 series and the 1500 and my 1500 are a bit quieter. i own neither of the Afro-Cubans, which is sad because it is one of my favorites. i might pay $350 for 5065 as a bit of a gamble but not much more without a little more certainty.
Mike you’re right:sound is generally better on 12″ although I would like to listen to a really mint 10″,original of course.
Anyway I’m not too disturbed with moderate aging of my 10″.
I’m much more disturbed by MY aging !
An older cat once told me why he preferred 10″ Blue Notes over the 12″ releases. From what I’ve read here, I understand that a lot (but not all, if I’m correct) of the initial 10″ releases were later reissued in the 1500 series as 12″. The older cat referred to the master tapes used: the very, very first time they were ever used to make a vinyl record out of them, was to press a 10″. Whatever came out later on 12″ had to be made from the same master tape, which then, naturally, had to be used for a second, third or maybe fourth time. So in his opinion, the absolute best sound quality possible that you can get was on a 10″ vinyl, made from a master tape that at that time was maybe only a few weeks, maybe months, old and still brand new, fresh and crisp. His goal was to get as close the the ‘date of birth’ of the original master tape as possible. Up to this day I don’t know what to think of his theory, ’cause the recent RVG reissues on CD sound stunning to me and have been made from those same masters whenever they were available. At the same time I think that I’m right that already in the 10″ era, Blue Note used that format to reissue original 78rpm recordings, which were cut directly from either the original 78 or a lacquer but not from actual tape, since back in the early days sessions were recorded directly to lacquer in stead of tape; it’s also the reason I think why Bud Powell’s 1503 and 1504 on CD have the remark “disc transfers by Rudy van Gelder”. A long story, but that’s what I had to think of when I saw the 10″ / 12″ answers from the others 😉
in the 1535 case I would agree to have rather the 12″ than the 10″, for the sole reason that one half of the 12″ album was issued nowhere else. It is the Jan. 29, 1955 session, which makes up one side of the 12″ album. Of course, I am happy to have both the 10 and 12″.
When Blue Note squeezed two 10 inchers into one 12″, I prefer the 10 inchers, because in the squeezing process, they usually left some material out. This happened in the case of Clifford Brown 1526 and Lou Donaldson 1537.
Mattyman, while I agree that your theory would have an effect there is another effect to consider. The improvement in vinyl pressing quality over the time period from the 10″ to the 12″. It wasn’t that long between when they were issued but my listening experience tells me that in the 50s, improvements in pressing technology were being made. It could be inconsequential, or all in my head though. I do tend to over think these things.
Maarten: I disagree. Dottore: agree. You both know me pretty well.
Maarten: is not the complete 5000-series also a Gesamtkunstwerk in itself?
Seventy ten inchers highlighting the quintessence of New York fiftiesjazz, incl. work of Gil Melle and Herbie Nichols, which did not come on 12″. All DG, flat edge, Lex adress, ears, you cannot go wrong!
rudolf: you’re right…. but if i admt that to myself i have to collect those ones too… 🙂
C’mon Maarten,remember that a great collection has to be a never ending story,so you won’t be sad if you begin a new round without having finished the first.
I’m sure noone has got everything:if I had ’em all I’d be depressed.
The 12′ releases should sound better – at least at the outer edges where the needle travels far every revelation 😉
Shaft
I hear you Mike. In a way the ‘getting as close to the birth date of the very first master tape as possible’ from that older collector sounded reasonable. But you’re right if pressing quality improved during those days: whatever mistakes they made or whatever new developments came up during the transition from the 10″ to 12″ format must have lead to better sounding pressings in the 12″ domain altogether.
Yep, I wish there was a scientific way to do it. Unfortunately I can’t get my hands on like 10 flawless 10″ and 12″ copies to test it. I wish though. That would be fun.
I’ve found that Blue Note peak of sound quality was in the early 60’s but my opinion is biased due to having more clean nice copies of these sessions than say ones from the mid to late 50s.