Strange Hank Mobley Peckin’ Time Activity?
Michel pointed this one out in the comments on the latest Duke Jordan 10″ thread and I’ll admit to being similarly confused by it: Hank Mobley Peckin’ Time. From the looks of the label, it does seem like the deep groove was somehow hand-carved. I’ve never seen one look this sloppy, certainly not when you’re talking about an imprint of a record-stamping machine, though I guess it’s possible. The RVG is hand-etched, where according to Cohen’s book it should be stamped. The dead wax also has some other weird scratched-out etchings. The labels themselves are worn but do look ‘correct’ from my point of view, and the cover looks right as well (though admittedly I’ve never held an original Peckin’ Time to compare). The LP is graded about a VG+ and the cover M-. I can’t imagine someone goofing around and making their own deep groove on, say, a Japanese reissue record (which should have a registration mark anyway) and sliding it in an original cover, but stranger things have happened – in fact, the world of psych and garage bootlegs is full of this kind of stuff. This seller, Vinyl House, also got five figures for a BN 1568 not all that long ago, though it was apparently worked out in a ‘trade.’ There’s something fishy going on here, in any event.
For comparison, I’ve found an example of what an original Peckin’ Time LP should look like in the following sale, though keep in mind that it’s for a record without a cover and someone is trying to flog it for $3,000+.
Now, this record is clearly an original, though $500 is a lot of money to part with for an LP and cover in VG condition at best: Sonny Clark Cool Struttin’. By now it’s been pretty well documented that clean originals of this album can go for some serious change, around ten times what this went for on a good day, so maybe $500 is a steal? I’ve bought a few avant-garde jazz LPs from this seller, cityvillerecords, and they’ve all been very conservatively graded so if it were my money I’d at least know that the seller is trustworthy, but a VG record, even a nearly sixty-year-old one, is still a VG.
Records are a strange business to be in.
That is a modern Japanese pressing modified to look original. The RVG is the wrong handwriting but most of all the other etching is KG@CA for Kevin Gray at Cohearent Audio who cut these modern Japan pressings. The cover texture is also wrong. Counterfeit 100%
Cancelled by the seller ?
Wow that seller is shady
Well, I wonder what an original counterfeit Peckin’ Time would fetch? It is original after all … a first carving of sorts. 🙂
So, so strange… who does that kind of stuff? Thanks Aaron.
In case there was any question, this is the Japanese reissue that was counterfeited:
http://www.discogs.com/Hank-Mobley-Lee-Morgan-Peckin-Time/release/4705420
When there is so much $ at stake this kind of fraud is to be expected. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from going to record shows and buying a record from a real person and directly asking if “it plays as good as it looks” and getting a definitive yes, you know the rest of the story.
Aha, thanks Aaron – I was only familiar with the Toshiba and King reissues of this title. This is all rather strange if you ask me.
“A” for effort. “D” for execution. Next up we will probably see someone steaming off 63rd Inc DG labels and pasting on counterfeit Lexington copies.
I always wondered why we didn’t see more of this with the prices of these albums where they are. I have a couple of this series and I really enjoyed the look and feel of them but it scared me how much “work” had already been done for the counterfeiters. Has anyone else purchased any of this series and have any thoughts on the sound?
Still confusing as those recent Japanese reissues are really well done (at least the one’s I’ve seen). The deep groove on the discogs site doesn’t look anything like that on the eBay auction. Oh well either way it’s obviously not an original.
I recently saw a Japanese reissue in a local store priced and tagged as an original. I spoke to the owner and showed him the tell-tale signs that it was a reissue…no real response other than “I know what I’m doing…”
2 months later, it’s still there…
I guess there’s no real way to stop rip-off sellers other than to not buy their stuff, and educate oneself on what one is buying.
That vinyl house site come across as some sort of SMERSH/Dr Evil jazz world-takeover equivalent !
Apparently those premium Japanese blue note replica Lps are sourced from digital. They look really nice, but soundwise the better choice would probably be a King or Music Matters if one could not afford an original.
Mark I’ve heard the digital rumor as well but also read numerous people claiming that is not true. Do you remember where you heard that? With it stating “Sourced from the original Tapes” I’m inclined to think they wouldn’t lie, but I’ve been wrong before. I don’t recall them sounding too bad but it has been awhile.
Jason I’ve seen that kind of thing happen here in Seattle too, some clearly bootleg Beatles 45s and i pointed it out and got a “oh thanks for letting me know I better reprice” only for it to go back on the wall by the next time I came in. I’ve also had the sellers that genuinely didn’t know and when I pointed out that a Liberty era Blue Note was marked as original and pointed out why it wasn’t, he immediately asked me what a fair price would be and sold it to me for 20% off of my named price. So it goes both ways I suppose!
Those “replica” Blue Notes are hideous. Completely miss the entire point of collecting – and listening to – records. A record is not a fetish object.
Isn’t spending $3000 on an original blue note makes it a fetish object?
Hey Steve – I live in the Mill Creek/Everett area. We should connect for coffee and talk shop. Jason@thewaxcabinet.com
The Blue note replicas 200g with Deep groove etc sounds great. Did a comparing with a King pressing a while a go and they both sounded wonderful but the replica had a warmer and deeper sound.
I have the 1568 Mobley session on this replica. It really sounds great but I can’t compare with any other vinyl source.
1 – Hello, when i realize the record was a fake i contacted the seller, and let him know. The auction was cancelled.
2 – Those recent reissues have beautiful laminated covers, colors are 100 % close to the real one. Letterings and adresses are period correct BUT the inside carboard is yellow ish. I bought a copy of “Off to the Races” because i have a NM original disc without cover, and never found a decent original cover. I was not interested at all at the record in itself.
3 – The records are fine and souds great but a quick look at the dead wax, will show you there is no ear, not RVG etc…I did compare the japanese disc with my 100 % original “Off to the races”, and i can say it is fine, but not as “deep” or “bright” as the original.
4 – This being said, “Off to the races” is definitely NOT my favourite Donald Byrd session. The conclusion is : i’m a fetichist 😉
Appreciate the feedback on the Premium Reissue series as I had liked mine but can’t quite call myself an expert audiophile. To Joe’s thought that these miss the point, for me personally, I purchased ones that I quite enjoyed but wouldn’t be able to afford off of places like Ebay (and likely won’t find in the wild at an affordable price), namely the Jutta Hipp Hickory House set. While the music is obviously the biggest reason for purchasing, I also enjoy the whole package including the cover. That being said, I prefer the quality and attention to detail that went into these vs the Japanese or the UA issues. I figure if I’m buying a reissue anyway, might as well give it a shot. I was happy with them!
Jason I live in South Everett area as well! We will have to connect, I’ll shoot you an email.
I bought my Scott 299b up in Everett. There is a gun maker up there that refurbishes old Scott’s and Dynaco ST 70’s. I bought the Scott because is sounded a bit softer, but I almost bought the Dynaco. The Scott’s appearance was the difference for me.
Every time I go up to Seattle to look for jazz records, there is zip up there. I can assume it is due to you two……..:)
Buds jazz used to be a pretty good shop up until about 15 or so years ago! First time I went to Buds in the early 90s I came home with a bag bursting at the seams with Lps..the next time a bit less, and then less again, and then nothing 🙁
But eBay and the internet have rendered most record stores pointless anyways for at least the last 10 years or more…
The newer “DBLP” Japanese replica reissues are sourced from the original master tapes and cut by Kevin Gray here in the US: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/blue-note-premium-vinyl-reissue-series-by-emi-japan.264946/page-4#post-7291644
I have the Sonny Clark Trio reissue, and though it sounds great and the jacket is gorgeous, the label is off. The blue is darker than the original labels and the deep groove looks pretty cheesy.
I’ve had online exchanges with Vinyl House UK and never would have had any reason to question their expertise not legitimacy, but this raises a giant-sized red flag. Even if VHUK didn’t do that to the LP themselves, how could they not smell a rat with this record?? To not be able to spot that as not an original is very suspect.
Rich said: “I’ve had online exchanges with Vinyl House UK and never would have had any reason to question their expertise not legitimacy, but this raises a giant-sized red flag. Even if VHUK didn’t do that to the LP themselves, how could they not smell a rat with this record?? To not be able to spot that as not an original is very suspect.”
–> That’s exactly what this made me think. Even if I was in the market for those seller’s records I would think twice: at best, this looks like poor attention to detail on a significant scale, at worst it looks….well, worse than that.
theres this store up where u mention which if u ever pick up “record collector magazine”, there spewed all over that….hey sell get this now:
USED copies of Park Ave. (aka Scorpio) Blue Note lps [aka ‘DATs on discs’]…….
…….$37.99/ea.
its not even funny, its more like….sad
Quote “this looks like poor attention to detail” : no, they paid attention to the detail, because they took close photographs of the badly scratched details.
I think they know perfectly what they are doing and thinking : ” we are honests : so, let’s show all the details and let’s see what happens – maybe some unknowledgeable dude with more money than brain (as there are many on the Ebay jungle) will bid on it it with his eyes closed” .
Remember Bob Djukic… or Nautiluso…
Djukic is no Nautiloso. He may stretch things but at the end of the day it’s up to the buyer, and his grading from what I can tell is pretty reasonable. You know what you’re going to get in most instances. The obvious exception is the sealed records, but with a lot of those deleted obscure major label rock LPs he sells, they weren’t pressed more than once.
Nautiloso just didn’t have the records and lied.
Yes, of course i did not mean Djukic is Nautiluso, Nautiluso is clearly a fraud (by the way, what happened, any follow up on this story), Bob Djukic is a fascinating seller… But the hysteria from the some customers give way to many possibilities…
Just revisiting this chat and chiming in on the DBLP Series Mono reissues sound quality. Kevin Gray did confirm on one of the links above (Steve Hoffman maybe?) that these reissues were not from digital copies. I now have about 18-20 of mostly 1500 and 4000 Series titles that I cannot find, or more importantly, afford decent quality original copies of for these titles! I love them! Let me preface this reply with the fact that I only wanted mono versions of these titles (I personally didn’t think Rudy has his stereo recordings locked in until 1961-62. Just my personal opinion, so please don’t unleash your RVG fury on me). I have sold off my UA mono, Music Matters (stereo) and Classic Records Mono reissues in favor of these DBLP titles. I know nothing about audio engineering, but this series sounds fantastic to my ears from the wide soundstage, detail of the instrumentation, and the overall mix. It’s just my preference when it comes to Blue Note reissues. The Classic Records Mono and UA Mono titles sound great as well and I still have a few titles of those series in my collection. However, at the end of the day for me it’s about the music and I want the best sounding releases that are reasonably priced; especially with today’s market and the extremely high prices for quasi-decent condition copies are fetching these days. Unfortunately, many of these DBLP Titles are climbing in price as well this past year. Sorry for the long response, but I wanted to wait until I have a good amount of titles and other reissues to compare them against. This is very subjective territory and there may be many opinions that contest mine and that’s fine and I respect your opinion. We just want to share our thoughts over this incredible music that we all love!
Be well,
Tom