Back on eBay: Vintage Blue Notes and a Coltrane Autograph
I just spent a little time on eBay. There are a lot of nice rare vintage records from the Jazz Collector Era and I’m not noticing much of a drop in demand or prices since the pandemic. Here are some of the items I put into my watch list, starting with a few vintage Blue Notes: Lee Morgan, The Cooker, Blue Note 1578. This looks to be an original West 63rdStreet pressing listed in M- condition for both the record and the cover. The auction closes in three days and there are already 37 bids and 13 bidders. The price is in the $500 range. This record is a regular in the $1,000 bin, with a top price of about $1,600, according to Popsike. Under normal circumstances I would expect to see this record easily top $1,000 and perhaps set a new standard, given the condition of the record and cover. Let’s see what happens.
The same seller has more Blue Notes for sale, including Kenny Dorham, ‘Round Midnight at the Café Bohemia, Blue Note 1524. This is an original pressing listed in VG condition for the record and VG- for the cover. Despite the condition, there are 17 bids and the price is now in the $200 range. Also Curtis Fuller, Bone & Bari, Blue Note 1572. This is also an original West 63rd Street pressing. The record is listed in VG+ condition and the cover is listed as “excellent.” The bidding on this is also in the $200 range and I would expect this to get a lot of action. One more: Tina Brooks, True Blue, Blue Note 4041. This is an original West 63rd Street pressing listed in VG- condition for the record and probably VG+ for the cover. There are three days left in the auction and the bidding is in the $365 range. I haven’t bought anything on eBay in years, but this one actually tempts me. I have a nice VG+ copy of True Blue vinyl with no cover. Match my vinyl with this cover, and my collection gets quite a nice little upgrade.
Here’s another one that caught my eye: John Coltrane Live at Birdland, Impulse A-50. This is an orange label stereo pressing. The record is listed in VG+ condition and the cover is listed as VG+ as well. The cover grading is a joke. Based on the pictures, VG- would be a generous grade for the cover, probably worse. However . . . the record is signed by John Coltrane, Rashied Ali, Alice McLeod (Coltrane) and someone else, whose name I can’t decipher. It looks legitimate to me from what I’ve seen of other Coltrane autographs, but perhaps our resident expert Dan at d_notes will see this and weigh in. For me, having an original Coltrane autograph would be something cool for my collection. The bidding for this copy is now in the $220 range with more than three days left in the auction. I have a hard time seeing myself bidding for this, but it is also tempting. I’ll keep an eye on it and keep you posted on my level of interest.
That looks more like “Thank You” than a fourth autograph to me.
Yep, “Thank You” is what it reads. Very cool.
Indeed, thank you. And thank you.
As usual… I’m a day late and a dollar short ! Everyone is on-point with this so far as the mysterious forth name is most certainly a cursive “Thank You”
Overall it looks plausible, but every example I’ve seen where JC has signed a message before his autograph it has typically been printed and not signed. (Inconclusive I know) That for me is “strike one”.
The second thing that bothered me with this one was the scale of the autographs in general… JC was very modest from what I gather and not prone to signing that large bold signatures. Oversize signatures can more often than not be a tell of possible forgery as they were probably signed with the assistance of a camera lucida optical mirror… Although this trait is also inconclusive again as many artists like Herbie, Lou, Sonny and Diana have all signed album covers for me at that scale. I’ve also had the pleasure of meeting Rashied Ali more than a few times before he passed away, although he never signed that large. There were subtle traits to Rashied’s signature that never wavered during his career but appear different in this example. There were also a few strokes in Alice’s signature that were polar opposite to the norm… That’s “strike two”.
Last but not least, it looks like this one may have been over-signed at some point to brighten up and refurbish the weaker signatures. As anyone who knows Impulse, knows that those high-gloss covers are tough to sign without smudging, even with an industrial grade sharpie. (Sharpie permanent markers were first introduced around 1964… Just not sure what they had in Japan in 1966 and what the quality was like.) That being said, they seldom run smooth and consistent on such high-gloss surfaces and can easily smudge when signed by other artists as looks to be the case on this one. At the same time they can easily be wiped off with a marker board cleaning pen. They are also highly susceptible to UV and easily fade as they do not fully absorb on this surface and will continue to evaporate over time. That is “strike three” on this one.
At the end of the day, it could still be legit… but it’s a tough sell for me. It just depends on how much you are willing to risk on this one. (Personally, $250 would be my limit)
Anyway bidding is already at 405 and will probably rise again. Jazz collecting has become funny in the recent years…
I decided to pay $15 for a quick opinion from notable autograph authentication expert Roger Epperson on the Coltrane autograph to see how it would likely do with authenticators, and he thinks it’s probably a fake. So, if somebody buys it, they likely won’t be able to get it authenticated.
Hi , Hope all is well.
Ok , This is just a open question that I have about Ebay and what I have been seeing the past week. First let me state like most on here a long time record Collector and also was registered on Ebay back in 1995
Back in the day , Ebay used to be a Goldmine of finding great deals on all sorts of LP’s. This was for various reasons of course. (Too many reasons to go into here on this form) , but let me say I have not “Cruised” Ebay for quite some time in a serious way and heard from other dealers / Collectors a few months back , pretty discouraging words.
Boy , were they right.
In a nut shell , and just looking at Jazz , the prices and grading seem to be way off for a good majority of the stuff I see. Prices that are crazy high for the Grade and or Grading that seems to be off in a lot of the VG and down areas.
“Deals” seem to be a thing of the past and it is like every single person that owns anything goes to Popsike / Gripsweat or whatever price guide that is chosen and the aim is to hit the high water mark.
I went through tons of listing and barley could find anything that would be considered a “Steal”.
I should state I do not buy Re-Issues. Only 100% Original pressings.
Searches were in Auctions / BIN , Spelling Errors , Labels , Artists .. etc etc etc
I may be stating something already known but was curious if most find it now to be a “Needle in a Hay Stack” for the most part.
Stay Safe.
Well… deals still exist, but they’re usually not on eBay. Not saying you can’t get good prices on eBay, but… if it’s a good price with a BIN listing, it goes quickly. If something goes for cheap at auction, that’s often because of some kind of error or bad luck (for the seller). Frankly, everybody knows about eBay, and there’s a high demand for these records plus diminishing supply whenever somebody buys a copy. eBay has kind of unintentionally set new values for these records by providing a platform where everybody can compete for the same record. Whereas previously collecting these records kind of existed in a person-to-person bubble which kept prices lower because you could only get the price you could get person to person and would really have to wait forever for the right person to come along to get a really ridiculously high price, eBay has made it so that you can throw a record between five such people willing to pay a high price and then watch them beat each other to death with ever-rising virtual numbers on a screen. And once a record sells for a certain price, most everybody else expects they can get near that much from now on. The bar has risen. And that keeps the value going up. It’s not a perfect upward trajectory, but it generally trends up. The best deals are often now found in record stores and garage sales and the like, but you really have to look, because the stock isn’t near as good there. eBay’s a mixed bag in that sense… access to rarities you would’ve spent years upon years upon years looking for has increased tenfold, but so has the price.
TurbochargedWeasel ,
Here in Toronto , the way to go has always been private sales / Garage Sales / Record Stores (in the past) as Al talks about so much , but alas that too has gone the way of the Dodo.
In the 80’s and early 90’s it was amazing here to find stuff at Garage sales and even record stores. But as the Net got bigger (Ebay) that started to wane quite quickly.
Now most are hanging on to their collections and when and if they come up , it’s like paying PRADA prices. This goes for the record stores also. Rare stuff goes fast or online very quick , where turnover can be much quicker.
“Hey , that OJC Pressing is SUPER RARE ” ………………..
There is a bit of a joke here in Toronto , “Nobody likes a educated record buyer”
Value Village (Savers in USA) / Goodwill / Salvation Army are all a thing of the past. Tons of record collectors doing the rounds daily in Toronto.
As a matter of fact I could tell you lots of insane stories about Thrift Stores and you would think you were , again , at Prada / Christie’s or Sotheby’s Auction House.
I could go on , but suffice to say I am quite grateful for what I have.
Best
Joseph-
Yikes, guess I’m spoiled where I live. Our local record store still has decent prices on occasion. I think the deal is that the owners know these things go for crazy prices, but they also know that they run a record store instead of an auction site, and they kind of resent eBay to a degree. I believe I’ve talked/bragged about this already, so roll your eyes and groan if you’re seeing this again, but some of my finds include an original first pressing copy of Palo Congo for $1 (it had some scratches that don’t affect play that much), a pretty nice first pressing of Lou Takes Off for $60, a pretty decent copy of ‘Round About Midnight At the Cafe Bohemia for $100, an admittedly kinda thrashed white label promo copy of Mingus Ah Um for $2, an almost perfect first issue of Song For My Father for $25, a really nice first press of Birth of the Cool for $10, multiple decent to quite nice original Miles Davis and John Coltrane records for between $1 and $20…. I mean, it’s not the most amazing spot ever, but stuff comes in, and sometimes I’m lucky enough to be the buyer. I’ve missed several buys, too. I know somebody bought a beautiful original copy of Swing, Swang, Swingin’ for $100, and I once came in to see a guy leaving with an armful of Blue Notes from the dollar bin (the only title I could see was Empyrean Isles). I was green over that one for weeks. I guess it’s a matter of the right combination of mild enough tourist traffic and nice enough record store owners… or at least record store owners that see eBay and roll their eyes instead of demanding your left testicle for a copy of Kind of Blue. It also probably helps that they like me, too. If I’m being honest, though, I’ve barely ever found anything at thrift stores or garage sales. Nothing jazz that I can think of. I’ve only heard stories from guys that spend their days driving from spot to spot to spot, and I’ve never really had time to do that on that kind of scale.
TurbochargedWeasel ,
Unfortunately , I would say over all what you describe just does not happen here and I know quite a lot of Record Hounds. I mean just the statement , “multiple decent to quite nice original Miles Davis and John Coltrane records for between $1 and $20….” Not a chance. ( Ok, Maybe if completely trashed or some re-issue of a re-issue of a re-issue……. but , what’s the point ?) From my understanding Original Blue Notes as a example just did not have good distribution up here back in the day but really that extends to most of the big Jazz labels. Sure , I have heard of some nice finds but over all you are going to pay. (Especially in Grade) Again , I am mostly referring to Jazz.
A few years back there was a record sale fund raiser here for Jazz FM and everything was $5. I was 5th in line and that was 4 hrs before opening. (Shows you how crazy I am). You only got 30 mins because by 9 AM the line was a mile long. Tons of Dealers were there. Seems everyone knows each other in this market . I scored some nice stuff but even this event was a huge miracle. Waltz for Debby -Riverside 9399 , Stanley Turrentine 84057 , Eric Dolphy NJ 8270 , Miles Davis ESP / Workin’ 7166 , Sonny Rollins V-8430 , Phil Nimmons Group , Dexter Gordon 84083 , Max Roach SR 80002 as a few examples in high grade.
House content sales are beyond crazy. I don’t bother personally but I have heard tons of stories of 9 AM openings and people being there at 3 AM. They even give out #s to keep the crowds low so You can back at the allotted time and have your place in line. Church Content sales ? Same thing………No sorry , but it’s nuts and has been like this for years now.
Oh, and as far as Ebay and record stores, same here , kinda of a disrespect shown towards it but yet they base the prices on this very site through Popsike / Gripsweat etc etc. Also the rents are really high so some stuff has to be thrown online for them to survive. I get it , but for hardcore record hounds it makes it difficult to find those Gems.
Thanks for giving more light on the signed Coltrane LP. I know the guys of FaceRecords, but wanted to know more about the authenticity of the record before bidding.
Can we keep the conversation on the topic please…is the LP signatures real or fake?
Why deleting my comment?
As far as the signatures go, I paid $15 for a quick opinion from a noted and highly regarded authenticator, and he said that from a quick look over they looked fake to him. It’s not 100% definitive, but it looks like they might be fake, or at least would have a very hard time passing authentication. Somebody may have just made a $2,000 mistake.
I thought it was Frank Lowe.