Comments on: A Colossus Question, Blue Notes, And . . . .

By: David S.

David S. — Thu, 26 Sep 2019 01:26:55 +0000

Sorry delayed reply: yes, my “turquoise” Sonny is printed by GEM on the back and is also flat edge.

By: Shaft

Shaft — Mon, 16 Sep 2019 11:03:46 +0000

Rudolf – ah ok my slow brain did not make the connection. 😉

By: Rudolf

Rudolf — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:13:23 +0000

I wrote A-B for Abrasive-Beautiful.

By: Shaft

Shaft — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 17:04:32 +0000

It says “AB” not “A-B” if it makes any difference. I compared the flat edge with a couple of early Blue Notes with flat edge and IMO they are just the same “flat edge wise”.

I would of course be happy to share some pictures. Maybe we are missing something here?

My 7007 is a Bergenfield NJ pressing with the typical Safety Lip and no GEM Cover.

By: Rudolf

Rudolf — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 11:49:49 +0000

A-B: you said it all. It is the physiognomy of AB pressings which come with more or less visible or feeleable beads or rims, but are basically the same. They all have in common the 5 or 6 entrance grooves with a more or less pronounced safety lip.
I checked 7043, Informal Jazz. My second issue, the brown sleeved Two Tenors, has not the ‘flat’ edge as you describe. My 1st pressing ‘Informal Jazz’ has a flatter edge, and my copy of the equivalent on Esquire (also marked AB) is somewhere in between.
I am not very much into Blue Note, but I took out a flat edge at random, 1508. It is definitely another thing compared to an AB.
Could it be that AB entered into the business only in the post flat edge era? I have no idea.

By: Michel

Michel — Sun, 15 Sep 2019 07:05:19 +0000

JC and LJC are definitely places where to learn a lot about records. I remember i contributed of the Prestige and Riverside pages in LJC. It was really exciting.
Maybe the difference between blue and turquoise on Colossus comes from lamination foxing, where record was shelved etc….

By: lennib

lennib — Sat, 14 Sep 2019 23:54:11 +0000

Ahh, this ongoing discussion is why I love Jazzcollector.com. These delightful discourses and sharing of information. Like the old days when all you learned you found out on your own or in various and sundry manners.
I no longer have Saxophone Colossus 50th, so who knows the color, thus I can’t add any knowledge, in fact I only have about 75 records left.
Regardless, this has been/is a fun read for me. Thanks.

By: Abrasive_Beautiful

Abrasive_Beautiful — Sat, 14 Sep 2019 22:32:31 +0000

Whoops, I mixed up the distinction between re-cutting, and making new stampers. Carry on.

As an aside, since it is clear that both the safety lip and Plastylite P/Ear are features of the individual stamper, it would also lead to the conclusion that later Liberty era pressings use freshly made stampers (and do not carry the P/Ear as a result).

Fascinating stuff

By: Abrasive_Beautiful

Abrasive_Beautiful — Sat, 14 Sep 2019 22:15:32 +0000

I think there is a distinction that must be made between the “flat-edge” which you find in a Lexington Blue Note and the flat-edge seen occasionally on titles later in the 1500 series and up to even around catalog number 4010. The former is completely flat and seems almost beveled on the edge, the latter is physically flat or sometimes tapers out to a point, either way with no obvious “Bead” on the edge or dramatic lip. They aren’t the same, but you could describe both as having a flat edge.

I have a larger sample size of Blue Note LPs than Prestige, but for example I do have an original vinyl copy of Informal Jazz (it came in the 2nd press cover) and it has a physically flat edge but nothing like the flat-edge seen as an indicator of the earliest BN pressings. This copy of informal jazz is obviously not a 1st pressing (early run) despite this.

Are we all talking about the same thing in regards to Saxophone Colossus? or just a physically flat edge. As Rudolf said, Abbey was not known to product (truely) flat edge vinyl.

Hope that makes sense.

Also, I disagree that the lacquers would need recutting, or any metalwork scrapped, to incorporate the safety edge. Rudy’s matrix etching for the early BN titles has a very distinct hand, written in large characters. If these were recut, they would be different by the time they were repressed in the 47w, NYC, Liberty era, etc.

By: Rudolf

Rudolf — Sat, 14 Sep 2019 20:34:05 +0000

Aaron, that is very interesting news. I will make a note of that.
Shaft: I took out my NYC copy of 7079 and ditto 7080 and also the Danish pressing of 7079.
All three have AB hand engraved.
I must admit that I was surprised how flat the NYC 7079 looks. One could argue that it IS flat. Knowing there should be a safety lip, I have the sensation of seeing the faintest elevation, but I could be wrong. 7080 and the Dane have a more pronounced lip, but still not very obvious. The question is now, to what conclusion does this lead us?