Comments on: A Few for the $1,000 Bin

By: Mattyman

Mattyman — Mon, 24 Jun 2013 20:24:35 +0000

You’re right, Joe L: the moment you slide the disc out of the inner sleeve, you already hear that it’s not regular vinyl. It indeed has this weird, kinda glass-like ‘zing’ to it.
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And thanks for the link to the Hoffman forum! 😉

By: Joe L

Joe L — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 14:37:47 +0000

What always makes me uncomfortable is the light, hollow “zzzziiiiiish” sound it makes going into and coming out of the jacket. It SOUNDS cheap, if that is even possible.

I have a copy of Ella Fitzgerald’s “Songs In A Mellow Mood” on Decca (1954) which has a few light surface marks only, but sounds awful, with continuous loud cracking throughout (it’s a quiet session, but still). Other of my records from that same year, pressed on “proper” vinyl by different labels (e.g., Dale’s Wail on Clef, Lady Day on Columbia maroon label, Dinah Jams on Emarcy) all sound terrific – bright and clear – with the same amount of light surface wear.

I found a discussion on the stevehoffman forums where a few knowledgeable folks weighed in:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/bestway-pressing-plant-in-mountainside-nj.51718/#post-8603262

I particularly liked this quote: “You haven’t lived until you’ve seen a styrene Columbia LP. They strongly resemble manhole covers.” Ha!

By: Mattyman

Mattyman — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 13:57:47 +0000

@ Joe L and Rudolf: thank you for your replies. Styrene, shellac… Lord knows what it is, but indeed it feels so fragile that I, too, am afraid to drop it on the floor.
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I also have a French pressing of Donald Byrd “Byrd’s Word” on Savoy, distributed by Ducretet/Thomson and that record, too, is made of this horrid, plastic like, shellac-ish material. Everytime you’re done playing these records, you’ll find little ‘crumbs’ of styrene or whatever this is that simply came off the record surface during play.
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Joe mentions styrene, Rudolf shellac and I have no clue at all, but it sure ain’t vinyl. One wonders why a they’d ever have used this crap as a replacement for vinyl… Anyone can add more to this?

By: Rudolf

Rudolf — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 22:56:27 +0000

Mattyman: no idea what the material is, but it feels fragile, like shellac. Drop it, and it falls to pièces. Transition had it, US Decca too. I feel uncomfortable with this material. The question of the labels, for me, is a matter of bad quality glue.

By: Joe L

Joe L — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 18:12:45 +0000

Mattyman – I always thought it was styrene. I have some early Bethlehem and Decca LPs that are same. I always think they make a “hollow” sound when placed in the jacket. And they sound terrible if there are any marks.

By: Earl

Earl — Thu, 20 Jun 2013 15:40:14 +0000

Just a brief agreement with Michel: if you’re a collector, the original cover & label are enormously important. If you’re simply a lover of fine music, it matters not at all. That difference has been bandied about so often, I would suggest perhaps we put it to rest.

By: Mattyman

Mattyman — Tue, 18 Jun 2013 19:10:38 +0000

It’s almost unreal to see how fantastic some of these ‘Madame Mono’ copies look. See how clean that label looks on the Kenny Dorham!
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And I have that Byrd’s Eye View on Transition, but I only have the record, not the cover. The label of the a-side had come off and the label of the b-side was lost, but still I bought it, since it was only 5 bucks. The seller handed me the a-side label in a separate envelope.
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A question for the community of older cats with more knowledge: the Byrd’s Eye View that I have (despite the missing cover and b-side label a true 1st pressing with hand written RVG initials and catalogue number in the dead wax) doesn’t seem to be made from vinyl but something that feels like, say, plastic. Could it be that this is the ‘styrene’ I read about every now and then? Even if you lightly ‘knock’ on the dead was area with your finger nail, it has this uncanny sound of a thin plastic plate instead of real vinyl, almost like those plastic plates that babies eat from. Can anyone confirm this? I mean, it would explain why the labels come off so easily: maybe paper doesn’t stick to styrene that well?

By: Michel

Michel — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 18:26:43 +0000

For sure a second blue label pressing will sounds quite as good as the first white. But the 2000 $ price paid is not for the sound, its the price of history….

By: Aaron

Aaron — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 18:11:08 +0000

I’ve got the same pressing and agree. Although the original cover image is a lot nicer than the painting used for the second cover!

By: Joe L

Joe L — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 16:59:27 +0000

I bought a NM blue label twin reel deep groove mono reissue of New Jazz Conceptions for $10 earlier this year. It can’t sound $2,000 different from a record pressed from the same stampers. Lunacy.