Comments on: A Simple Matter of Condition

By: Mark

Mark — Tue, 07 Jun 2016 18:29:40 +0000

I have many original saturns; including handpainted ones and early “pre-el Saturn” ones. This silkscreened “jazz in silhouette” is exceedingly rare – plus it’s one of his most iconic early records. I doubt I’ll ever one a copy of it unless I run into it locally or outside of eBay. $2000+ for a record is bonkers. $1000 is a bit crazy. And $900 is totally fine – which happens to be the most I’ve ever spent on a record haha.

By: Turbocharged Weasel

Turbocharged Weasel — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 15:57:40 +0000

Ooh… I stand down on my stance against the idea of the Sun Ra ever being worth that much in that shape:

“Prior to the handmade Philadelphia & printed Chicago (El) Saturns and the Thoth Intergalactics (another sub-labelname that appeared on several labelprints) which mainly were made in the 70s and 80s, original SATURN RECORDS LPs from the 50s and 60s have straight 2 color labelprints (no images or logos, just text), don’t use the “El” on the labelprint and mostly have printed covers – yet they were often hand-assembled and also made in very small numbers (Sun Ra had special arrangements with the pressing plants to let him sometimes press 70 or 90 LPs only!).”

With pressings being potentially that low, people just have to take what they can get. Sorry, I didn’t know it was that low.

By: Turbocharged Weasel

Turbocharged Weasel — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 15:38:55 +0000

Yes, but the clips still leave over half an hour to the imagination. The seller seems to be pretty honest, so they’re probably representative of the thing as a whole, but you don’t necessarily know that for sure, and there was some noise in those clips that could be problematic in quieter sections (if the noise there is universal on the record). Although this is Sun Ra, so maybe there aren’t any particularly quiet sections… I’m not familiar with this recording. I’m not really qualified to talk on the matter, I guess… I’ve only at most paid about a fourth of the cost of that record for anything before, and I haven’t gotten into Sun Ra yet. But overall, the record has splits on both side of the cover, with the bottom being split about 9 inches, the record is described as really having only light scratches yet still warrants a VG-, there aren’t pictures really showing the extent of any of this light scratching, and the sound clips cover less than 10 minutes of the music. But the numbers for this pressing do seem to be low, so… I guess until I actually know how many are out there, I can’t say that this isn’t technically worth it, even though I’m quite sure that if I had that much money to spend, I would be hesitant to drop it on that. I require a bit more knowledge about this specific record to really say what it’s worth, but it still seems like that’s likely pushing it a bit.

(As a side note, Discogs claims to have sold copies for under $20, which probably just shows how bad some sellers are at listing items for sale under the proper pressing on there. That said, some sellers are clueless, and apparently somebody did sell a VG copy of 1568 on there last year for $20, so… Who knows. When you don’t know what you’re selling, anything goes, I guess.)

By: Anders Wallinder

Anders Wallinder — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 13:18:58 +0000

Well regarding the Sun Ra it had several audio clips from the actual record – so no suprises here I say. The you can judge for yourself if it is good enough on the TT.

The only thon with soundclips is that some jazz seller tend to offer true mono clips that that van sound awful when you get the LP home and play it on the regular TT

By: Turbocharged Weasel

Turbocharged Weasel — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 09:13:09 +0000

That pressing of Jazz In Silhouette appears to have only showed up about 5 times on eBay, according to Popsike. I don’t doubt it’s rarer than The New Tradition or Hank Mobley 1568… I don’t know too much about Sun Ra, but I know that he had a very limited audience even at his most popular, and in the 50’s… Yeah, pretty small audience. There can’t be more than a couple hundred copies out there with that cover, if that. And sure, his fans are really into him. I’m not surprised it passed $1,000 at all, but the record has never surpassed even $1,500 before. Six years is a long time to wait, and I’d say the price is more reflective of that than anything else. If there are, say, 20 copies like that in existence, then fine, over $2,200 is quite understandable. I saw a G copy of a Robert Johnson single go for over $4,000 last year because fewer than 20 copies were known to exist. However, if the number of copies of Jazz In Silhouette is around, say, 500… $2,200 for a VG- copy seems a bit steep, especially considering that that seller doesn’t use G+ as a grading, thus meaning that everything between G and VG is considered VG-… That’s a hell of a range, so this particular record could be quite scratchy; there’s a bit of mystery in what you’d really be getting. If the handful of other original copies that have popped up on eBay over the last few years had sold more recently, I’d guess that the price for this copy would probably be more around $1,500, tops. The copy sold in 2010 was described as VG+, and it didn’t top $1,000 (although it sounds like that guy mixed and matched because he had two original copies, and both of the records were out of their respective sleeves, judging from the description). I don’t know. Maybe that record really is worth $2,200+ in VG- condition now… I understand paying high prices for scratchy records- I’ve done so more than once- but there’s a certain point where you go from handing over several hundred for a scratched record to handing over a car for a scratched record. I can only defend dropping so much on records of mediocre condition… Going a bit into the four figure range like that should give you more than just bragging rights and a playable but somewhat noisy place filler.

By: Clifford

Clifford — Sun, 05 Jun 2016 03:52:36 +0000

That particular early variant of Jazz in Silhouette is reallllly rare…

By: Art Klempner

Art Klempner — Tue, 31 May 2016 15:33:47 +0000

This may shock some of you but some of us old timers buy jazz just to hear the music! After the rent is payed, the food is bought and the bills sent, we have enough left to buy a beat up blue note and are happy as hell to have it!

By: Bill W.

Bill W. — Tue, 31 May 2016 13:24:40 +0000

To answer GST’s question… I like having a fairly clean collection, so I would prefer a VG++ or NM copy of a second pressing rather than an original in VG- condition or worse. I think I’ll start selling what VG- lps I still have. There certainly seems to be a strong market for these.

By: Mikec

Mikec — Tue, 31 May 2016 12:51:45 +0000

In all reality that sun ra cover has only been on eBay a couple of times so it’s prob significantly more rare than the jackie

By: Turbocharged Weasel

Turbocharged Weasel — Tue, 31 May 2016 01:56:03 +0000

Yikes, over $2,000 for a VG- copy of Jazz in Silhouette? I guess people got excited because that particular pressing hasn’t been up for auction since 2010, according to Popsike… But that copy was in significantly better shape and didn’t even pass $1,000. I can kind of understand $711 for The New Tradition in VG- shape, regardless of how unfortunate that price is and how it doesn’t bode well for me, but over $2,000 for that Sun Ra in similar shape is ridiculous, even by my very generous standards. I guess people had been waiting for a copy for too long… Some kind of perfect storm brewed and overflowed its teacup.