I’ve actually bid on a few records recently, but these days I don’t even get close, unless I want to really gamble on condition, which I don’t. Anyway, I was watching this record on eBay: Walter Davis Jr., Davis Cup, Blue Note 4018. This was an original pressing and it was listed in M- condition for both the record and the cover. A few hours before the bidding closed it wasn’t getting much action. My theory: Even though the listing described the cover as M-, it didn’t look that good in the photo. I know, however, that when you are taking pictures of black covers you often get a glare that distorts the image and makes it look worse than it actually is. I took a shot and set up my Bid Nip to put in a bid of about $350 with five seconds to go. Hah!. The record
sold for $901. I had a similar experience with this record, although I was a bit more hopeful that I might win it: Kenny Drew, This is New, Riverside 236. This was an original pressing with the white label and deep grooves. It features Hank Mobley and Donald Byrd and is like a Blue Note, only not a Blue Note. The listing’s headline did not mention the prominent sidemen and I thought maybe I could “steal” this one at around $200, since it wasn’t getting much action. It sold for $338.34.
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Al-re:Kenny Drew…buy one mono Japanese pressing for $15(currently at Euclid)and call me in the morning. You’ll feel a lot better as you think of the bread you just saved!
Al
you might want to take note of recent auctions of Paperstax. they were all near mint pressings of Blue Notes but he confirmed to me they were all Liberty pressings without ear. Jackie’s Bag with west 63rd address and no ear went for over 800 dollars!
someone explain this ! people paying this much can’t be that ignorant. I am perplexed.
So, Jack, the seller knows they are not originals but doesn’t put the information in the listings? I just bid on a couple of these making the wrong assumption and, thankfully, I lost (although I came pretty close).
well I think a Lexington with shrink wrap is one tip off as to original or not, but I am not an expert as to shrink wrap and Blue Notes. I am puzzled as to Blue Notes with deep groove not having ear marks.
In his email to me he said none have ear marks and if they did he would note it in listing. None are noted as such .
I do have a Lexington 1541 which is exactly like original with Lexington ave on cover also, but no ear and no deep groove.
Everybody, explain to me again why you would buy a NM Blue Note? If you play it the value goes down. If you don’t play it, you will never get to enjoy the great sounds. Unless you are looking at this as pure investment it’s an no win situation. As I write this, I am listening to a Blue Note 45 from 1956: Sonny Rollins, Decision. I paid $3 for it at an antique store in Orange, Ca. and it sounds great. But the point is that I play the records that I buy because of the great music…..Al: is there some reason why you don’t at least discuss jazz 45’s? I have purchased some great jazz 45’s over the years, and at great prices. I just changed the record to a Sonny Rollins Riverside 45, Mangoes. That one was $8.00….It’s a great contrast to the other 45 I just played…Given that 45’s kept many a record label alive I think that’s an important facet of jazz history…..
erich: I think that if you have a NM record and you play it on a good turntable and handle it with care, it could stay almost NM (or M- or VG ++) (unless you play the record every day for forty times…)
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Also, i don’t buy albums to keep them in the same value but to enjoy them, not only the music but also the cover….(and i could not enjoy listening to a G- record with tics and pops)
it is a bit the same with the tip of buying a japanese pressing… ofcourse it is cheaper and it sound almost the same……. so does a cd.
I think for a lot of collectors it is not about prices or sound, but about comming as close as possible to the “original’, in a (bound for failure) atempt to get in ‘touch’ with a period in time that you think was important…..
If you want to save or make money you should not collect original records, but get a good job, work hard and put your money in a bank (and then look at it???)
curious about jack’s 1541:lex cover,lex label,no dg,no ear.
flat edge ?
the BN reissues from Classic records have the exact original label( deep groove, right adres, same lettertype, even the missing “r” when needed, they are only different in appearence regarding the RVG and ‘ear” (they have none), so a picture on ebay from the label looks exactly like a original..
the front of the cover is also exact, but the backcover has one line(adres) extra at the bottom
Erich — If you would like to write a guest article on the pleasures of collecting Jazz 45s I would love to post it. Funny, its the first time anyone has mentioned it on the site and it’s been quite a few years. I’m not a collector of 45s and I don’t know of too many collectors. Frankly, it’s not a format that held any appeal to me for jazz: It was never the original release of a record in the jazz world, the way it was in the rock world, right?
my 1541 is not a flat edge
I am joining this discussion at a late stage and in the meantime the item (# 1540) has been sold for over 1400 dollars.
I have a copy of 1540 which I bought directly from Alfred Lion in the early sixties, in 1964 I believe.
It has no DG, no ears, no deep grooves, no flat edges, no thick vinyl, no kakubuchi frame cover, but the Lex. adress on labels and the rear of the cover. It came with a Blue Note innersleeve showing pictures of their catalogue.
It did not come in shrink.
This copy definitely is no original, in the sense of a first pressing, but it is an original Blue Note.
I meant the Mobley 1540 just sold by “paperstax”
What is the meaning of “original” Blue Note pressing ? In my world it is either a “first pressing or it isn”t. The original pressing concept is solely a marketing tool used by unscrupulous sellers. A 1564 Blue Note without the ear can never be a first pressing and selling it as an “original” Blue Note is the epitome of shysterism.
In regards to BN’s, I’ve always thought that an “original” pressing referred to 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd runs from the 50’s/60’s. Pretty much anything with an NY label. There are so many interesting points in BN history that are exemplified by these various original pressings. My copy of 4123 is a NY mono, probably 2nd or 3rd run, but I still find the same nostalgic fascination holding a piece of history. On the contrary, I have a recent anniversary japanese stereo copy of 4123 that holds a different type of sentiment. Part of what makes vinyl such an attractive hobby for me is the high degree of personal influence. Going on about the term original though, an album that came out on BN/div-liberty in the 70’s can also be considered “original” relative to the time it came out. What i would distinguish apart from an “original” are all of the later French, DMM, Scorpio, EMI pressings etc…
I’d have to agree with the perspective presented by Max re:”original”. All you need do is listen to-and,if possible, hold in your hands-a DMM(yuk!),Pathe,Emi,etc,pressing. NONE of them compare favorably to even a Liberty mono pressing of ANY BN session. Yeah,a ‘first-run’ is always preferable(ca-ching!),but those early 60’s NY mono lps are nothing to sneer at. Get em’ while you can…
absolutely agree with robert:original must be first pressing.all others “originals” should be called by their real name:reissues.
on ebay now: “hank mobley on blue note 1550 original NY23 mono DG ear”.
but there’s something missing.Which I asked:
no flat edge
a beautiful almost original copy,desirable,old enough but no interest for me:not original first pressing,currently 609.99 and reserve not met.
i agree with Max.
Original should be made in BN/liberty times..
First pressing should mean…HA!: first pressing, quite simple..the first run of that album.
But i have the idea a lot of people are paying high prices, while they don’t exactly know what they are buying: You need a list besides your computer with all the info on first pressings per album to be shure…
Also the ’emotion’- aspect: i agree with Max, first pressing is most desirable but almost to expensive, so for me to a second or third pressing from that period or a liberty is nice too. (as long as it has a RVG, wich most of the 2nd and liberty monos have) And yes, those EMI,pathe,dmm etc are horrible, and i am not talking about sound but about the ‘feel’ of a cover ,disc or label.
For me the last run from japan (alfred lion 100th anniversary batch) have the most beautifull reissue covers: thick shiny and beautifull deep photoprinting, beautifull pasted backsides).It is made by people who care about history and the quality of their produkt.
But the ‘Classic Records” series from now have the most beautifull reissue label:exactly the same as original including deep groove and missing”r”.
So if i have a 1,2 or Liberty pressing i have the feeling i really own the album. But with a emi,pathe or dmm etc i feel i still haven’t got that album…….yes it is all lovely nonsens!
Hello everybody, since I wasn’t able to find a real forum here to register, I decided to leave this comment. I recently became a regular visitor of the site. Now I’m 38 years old and I can’t afford the originals that are so frequently discussed here. So let me tell you, that collecting the Blue Note CDs is just as much fun! 🙂 I have a lot in my CD cabinet, but Blue Note remains my favourite. Still I devour all stories here on the site, about the auctions but also about the J.R. Monterose acetates from a few days ago. I’d love to own them or -if I could- reissue them.
Now, thankfully it’s not all CDs in my collection, since I do own two Blue Notes on vinyl. Blue Train by John Coltrane and Volume 2 by Miles Davis and I bought them about two months ago on a flee market. I do not want to sell them since they’re precious to me. But I’m only human and of course I’m curious what the professional ‘regulars’ of this site think about them. I can read the price guide to the hilt, but I can’t really grade a cover or a record. I have read about the ‘ear’ in the dead wax, the addresses, etc etc.
Still I would like to ask you all to look at the photos that I made and maybe give me a honest opinion about these two cherished gems that I have. You can click HERE to see the photos. I paid 40 Euro (about $50,=) for Miles and 5 Euro (about $6,=) for John. The records play with a little bit of surface noise, but that’s about it. They are clean. The dust speckles in the photos are basically the only few on the records. Was this a good purchase and can I call myself the proud owner of two real Blue Note originals? Looking forward to hearing from you!
Sincerely,
Mattyman, The Netherlands.
Al, I would be happy to write a guest article on jazz 45 RPM’s. I have around 1,000 in my collection, and I have many displayed in my record room. I started collecting them for the cardboard sleves, and because many are in the Pacific Jazz series that pictorially matched the 10″ records issued in the early-mid 1950’s that I also have. Although I live in the San Francisco Bay area I have acquired most in LA where my two children live. So, I will try to put something together and send it to you.
sounds nice , Erich… i am looking forward to see some of those covers!
Does anybody know exactly which pressig was the first pressing without a flat edge ? BN 15..?
As Michel,I can confirm last flat edge Lee Morgan Vol.3,BN 1557.
I have another info,not confirmed:1551,1552,1555,1556:no flat edge.
Can someone make light on this ?
Thanks.