Blasts From the Past
Sorry I’ve been inconsistent again with my posting frequency. In my real work I’m helping to ghost write a book on cybersecurity and the first volume is closing, so it’s been very busy. Before getting down to the business at hand of looking at records on eBay, I have a question to pose from our good friend Clifford, as follows: “Do you know which came first in terms of Contemporary Records mono pressings of Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section, blue title on the back slick or red title text? I always assumed blue was first, but have seen some with red text referred to as original.” I know that I have an original pressing of this record because when I bought the Bruce M. West Collection (oh, happy memories), there was a copy of Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section with the purchase date, the original loose plastic outer sleeve and a promotional card from Contemporary. It was quite a nice package to have. In fact, I ran a picture with the original post, repeated here. This copy, and my other original pressing, both have the blue title on the back and the red text. Was there a contemporaneous (pun intended) release with red text in the title. That’s the question Clifford is posing. And the answer is?
I had my eye on this listing because it is a record I’ve never actually seen before and it was offered by another old friend of Jazz Collector, mr. fifties jazz, otherwise know to us here as Rudolf: Wade Legge Trio, French Vogue 133. This was an original 10-inch pressing that looked to be in beautiful condition. The final price was $801.01. Careful readers may recall that Rudolf once regaled us with a treatise on French Vogue, A Comprehensive Guide to French Vogue, which, it’s hard to believe, was posted nearly eight years ago? How is that possible? Anyway, these French Vogue pressing was later reissued as Blue Note 5031, New Faces, New Sounds. Popsike tells us that the French version has sold for more than $1,000 at one time and Rudolf’s is the second highest price. The top price for the Blue Note is $788. There was also this post from last year on the Blue Note copy of the Wade Legge record, which has some interesting comments that provide some historical perspective.
The Pepper lp cover issue has, to my knowledge, never been answered. I believe the red is more common, however. Also, most issues were pressed with red text when cover text was printed in color, although lots of others (purple, blue, green, etc.) were used.
The Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section 1st art jacket has the title in blue and the pink trim around the tunes on the back slick. I’ve verified this with multiple highly reliable sources.
Yes, title in blue on back slick, and thin, red, rule enclosing tune-title box. I bought my copy when it was first released.
In the 90’s Japanese dealers only wanted first pressings and they were looking for red print on the back of Mono pressings of Meets the Rhythm Section.
Just like David J said, there were quite a few different colors used and I was looking for a pattern.
I bought and sold a lot of Contemporary titles during that time period and although I wasn’t writing down my observations there was an impression that the type color used on back was influenced by a dominate color shown in the cover photograph.
One could also argue that a 3-color print (black, blue, red) is more elaborate and expensive and would make sense to use in a 1st edition jacket. The follow up printings would be more monochrome or less colors at least.
I sold a sealed copy of the Art Pepper and sealed Rollins Way Out West in 2012…Seriously…both sealed in the loose baggy with the original promo bills! It was a crazy find! I sold it to recoup the costs of a collection I purchased at that time…Looking back, I wish I kept those!
On another topic, two 1st pressing copies of Art Pepper/Modern Art sold on eBay in the last week … one from JRC, the other from a seller in South Korea. Both near mint-ish … one sold for $4000, one for $3000 (JRC). Wish I could afford one below $3K. Maybe more will be flushed out.
I know a guy that bought the Pepper on the 1st week of it´s realese and it has the red text on the back
‘Tricolor’ back is the first jacket: red, blue, and black.
Also important (to me anyway) is the pressing: the first has D2 stampers in the deadwax, both sides.
Hi Al, my paper on Vogue written and published, thanks to JazzCollector, already 10 years ago! I can’t believe it. Tempus fugit, Miles would say.
The Legge 10 ” at the time was re issued by Blue Note. Another 10 ” from the Vogue stable went for $ 2200 in the same auction. This one, Duke Jordan on Swing, was not re issued at the time. Could that explain the huge price diffrence?
Re Art Pepper on CR, apparently there is no unanimity, although the red/blue school is in the majority. I have a red only in FS, loose bag with the catalogue. The catalogue is of the mixed 10 /12 ” period, i.e. very early. Since it is sealed, I cannot check the D2 presence. I have a similar Way out West with early 10/12 ” catalogue. The Rollins, of course, came only in red. It would be defendable to state that the red only version of Pepper, and Rollins, are first issues, the one with blue added, being a later one. For me the early catalogues are determinating.
Strange, I posted an elaborate comment on French Vogue and Pepper CR, but it does not show up.
In short:
8 years ago since I contributed my French Vogue paper. Tempus Fugit, Miles would have said.
A similar, this time France only, went for $ 2200 (10″ Swing Duke Jordan trio).
Pepper: the Way out West album came also with red print only for the 1st pressing. I have a FS copy with red print and an early catalogue feat. their 10 and 12 ” issues. I have a ditto copy of the Pepper album. I would have thought that first issues come in the simplest form, just one colour, like all the other first prints in the CR catalogue. To add another colour (blue), looks like a novelty, reserved for a second pressing/issue.
My comments get lost. Second try without the comments showing.
Actually, the Miles “Tempus Fugit” is a Bud Powell tune which Powell recorded for Mercury in 1949. Its first issue was on 78.
Frist pressing would be D1/D1 stampers not D2/D2.
Actually I think both versions (red only and red/blue printing in back) can be regarded as “original”. I had one of each for several years and both covers looked exactly the same, frame lines etc. (except for the blue line on the back). Also the vinyl of both versions was exactly the same (D2 stampers). Eventually I kept the one with the red/blue printing.
I have seen several copies (on eBay) of both varieties with promo stamps, which more or less proves both versions were released simultaniously…
Was there ever a D1/D1 of this?
I think Peter has spoken the final word, putting to an end this discussion which every now and then flares up, interesting as it is.
@David J – have you actually ever seen a D1/D1 copy of Meets the Rhythm Section or are you speculating that one exists? I have had four original copies over the years, and I have seen at least half a dozen more in friends’ collections or at stores, and the earliest I have ever seen is D2/D2. I have actually discussed this point with other collectors and no one I have spoken to has ever seen a D1/D1 copy either.
I don’t see many D1/D1 stampers of any Contemporary lps and I live in southern California near where they were pressed. Of the (non 10″) Contemporary records I own I have D1/D1 of 3583, 3528 and 3504, the last of which is oddly in a second pressing cover. I have a few others I haven’t checked. That said, just because I don’t have it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. What I see most commonly is D3/D3. I don’t own any D2/D2. I do own one mixed D2/D3 and one D5/D5 among the records I’ve checked. I don’t believe that Contemporary did what Columbia did, for example, where the letter indicates the mother and the number indicates the pressing. First Columbia pressings are ALL 1A to 1J. Rather I believe the pressing order of Contemporary is indicated by the number. For example, if you look at much later green-label pressings of Meets the matrix number will be something like D23. I’m guessing that the first run of Meets was a small number and/or the mother was found to be less than optimal so another mother was plated. For what it is worth, the only promo of this title I’ve ever seen had the three-color printing on the back, but since covers and disks were rubber stamped promo you can take this for what its worth.
See my previous comments for the final word. Anything else is just wishful thinking 🙂
Warning: my very snarky reply.
That’s great, Paul! I don’t think any of us realized that you were such an exalted expert that you get to decide the last word despite lack of evidence, particularly when the subject has been debated ad infinitum. We’ll be sure to check with you first (and last, apparently) next time. Thanks again.