Collectible Jazz Vinyl Through the Years
I’ve been saving this note from Rich (DG Mono) with the idea that someday I would address his questions. That day is today:
“After reading your collecting stories, Al, it’s clear that you’ve been collecting since at least the ’70s. Relatively speaking, where are the biggest spikes in average value over the years? Is the biggest one in the past decade? If so, why do you think that is? eBay? A ‘rediscovery’ of vintage jazz vinyl? Also, when comparing the relative value of a Prestige vs. a Blue Note, do you feel those average proportions have changed, meaning do you think demand for Blue Notes has disproportionally increased in comparison to demand for jazz records on other labels?”
Indeed, Rich, I have been collecting since the ‘70s. 1970 to be precise. When I started out, I was just buying music I liked and didn’t think in terms of prices or value. I didn’t have much money anyway, so a lot of my shopping was in the bargain bins at Sam Goody’s. There came a point where I realized that a lot of the music I liked was out of print and not so readily available. My friend Dan was a jazz guitarist and had “discovered” the great Tal Farlow records from Norgran and Verve from the 1950s and was on a perpetual mission to find and accumulate each of these records. That led him into the world of collectible records, and I followed.I recall seeing auction lists from my friend Red Carraro in the early 1970s and being amazed that people would pay those kinds of prices — $100, $200 or even more – for a single jazz record. It was also eye-opening that the majority of his best customers came from overseas – predominantly Europe but increasingly from Japan. I would go into Dayton’s on 12th Street and Broadway and ask about collectible records, but the prices were always too high for my budget and sensibilities.
Anyway, the first spike in the market seemed to take place in the mid 1970s and early 1980s when Japanese collectors seemed to get very active and began driving up the price of collectible records, particularly the Blue Notes. I was never really a dealer/seller of records, so I’m not sure if this was the precise timing, but it was when I became aware of a change in the market. I also got the sense that the market slowed in the mid-1980s with the advent of CDs. Collectors weren’t sure if their vinyl would retain its value in the face of this new medium, and many were interested in replacing their records with this new format.
I think there have been two spikes so far in this century. The first was when eBay reached a tipping point and buyers and sellers realized that, for the first time, there was a viable international market. For sellers it meant they could reach any buyer anywhere in the world; for buyers it meant they could buy any record pretty much at any time, as long as they were willing to pay the market price. This created a big spike in the market because it created a brand new marketplace.
I’ve also seen a second spike in the market, which has taken place in the time frame during which I’ve been writing Jazz Collector, probably during the past 3-5 years. As people have become more knowledgeable of original pressings, they have realized that these are in limited supply. This seems to have created some kind of paradigm in which more people are willing to pay more money for the gems of the era. Or perhaps it is a smaller group of people willing to pay more money, but they are the ones driving the market.
I can’t really evaluate which of the spikes in the market has been the biggest. There was definitely a major shift in the 1970s and early 1980s when Japanese collectors set new pricing standards. That was profound because it set the foundation for today’s market. The two spikes in this century have also been significant and interesting to watch. The question I have is whether today’s prices are sustainable and/or whether they will continue to go up. Watching some recent auctions, such as the ones from Dr. Herb Wong and our friend bobdjukic, there seems to be a wave of new collectors, perhaps driving a spike in that value of certain records that, at one point even a couple of years ago, would not have been considered collectible. We’ll see if that is an aberration or a sign of things to come.
As for Blue Notes and Prestiges, yes, I’ve seen a growing disparity in the market. The value of original Blue Notes has continued to spike and, proportionally, the Prestige prices don’t seem to have kept up at the same pace.
Obviously, in doing this post, I’m hoping to spur some discussion in the community so, please, have at it. I’d be very curious, for example, to hear what Rudolf has to say, since he’s definitely been at it longer than me.
Rudolf i was just trying to play the role of the “avocat du diable…”. Couldn’t agree more to wat you write…. I modestly try to collect everything in Jazz but Blue Note – because, Blue Note needs no promotion and overshadows almost everything else…. My collection is full of Lee and Warne, Billy Usselton, Paul Moer, Stan Levey, Don Sleet, Lou Levy, Mike Cuozzo, Bill Holman Hal McKusick, the Brothers Candoli and Stan Levey, Curtis Counce, and… and… and everybody else… And even Harry Loukofski !!!
and I was just trying to imagine what makes Blue Note so attractive…Because, if Paul Moer or Teddy Edwards had recorded for Blue Note, they would be famous now…
A myth is not necessarily based on a true story – but, if it work good among years and years it become a historical fact in itself.
In the current parlance, Blue Note was curated, Prestige was not. The Weinstock brothers issued everything set to tape, as many times as they thought they could earn a positive ROI. If Wolf or Lion did not like a take or a session it was tabled and not issued when they owned the label. Everything vs only what was “good”. Listeners and collectors have noted the difference. Part of the mystique surrounding BN as a label is their approach to the artist and to the music. “Rehearsal” time may have been an embellishment by Cuscunna but BN did allow more time for preparation and greater leeway in the studio than other labels (like Prestige). A large part of the BN mystique is also media driven. Ask a non jazz collector to name a few jazz labels, and BN will be mentioned by many. Prestige by comparatively few. Why because the media has had a hand in creating the “cool jazz loving aficionado” persona and has successfully tied it to BN as an example of what the discriminating collector prefers.
Another element to the rise in prices is premium reissues. The entities that have chosen to reissue classic titles have also brought additional attention to these titles and to the issuing labels. Many would prefer to own the original vs a reissue and have come into the market as a result.
There is no doubt that we are in a collectables bubble. Classic Cars, art, records…..all prices seem to be going up. Partly nostalgia driven, but there are many newly rich who now have the resources to indulge their passions. For some collecting is a status symbol, for others it is finally being able to afford what they could not afford when they were younger. How long can this play out ? We are in the middle late stages of Baby Boomer markets (retiring and moving to fixed incomes) and entering the middle stages of Gen X/Y driven markets (entering peak earning years and have disposable income). What did these people want when they were young impressionable and their tastes were being shaped ? For a certain segement, both in the US and overseas it was Jazz recordings. Either they didn’t have the money at the time (boomers), or product wasn’t available locally (lived in a rural area, or lived overseas), but now they have the cash and the internet puts the market on their computer screen. A few clicks and you can have that vintage BN title in your hand ! Boomers are retiring, but still see themselves as frustrated teenagers. They’ll continue to buy. X/Y now have more disposable income, and are getting the point where the kids are leaving the home. They will continue to come into the market.
Unless the bottom falls out of the world economy, don’t expect the bubble to burst. Growth may moderate, but growth will continue.
Re: rudolph: not harsh at all, I knew we had different decades on our minds. My favorite Prestige titles tend towards the New Jazz imprint as you may have guessed, and if you asked me what my favorite blue note is, it would be hard not saying Out To Lunch (I dont have a favorite but thats a fun answer to the question). I really like bop and the early soul/blues jazz sound before it became cliche, but I can dig on modal, post bop, and spiritual sessions all day.
Wow, just when I thought Al had forgotten about me! 😉 Both this post and the comments have been incredibly insightful. I am especially fascinated by the stories from the senior collectors! It’s interesting to think that a long time ago before CDs, the internet and MP3s, the higher value of rarer records was a natural outgrowth of the simple fact that the only way you were gonna hear that artist/recording was if you had the record–I love that! Today you can hear the MP3 on Spotify or YouTube in a matter of seconds–back then, you *had* to find the record–no other options, no CDs, no format wars in sight!
Rudolf’s point that today it’s more about the ‘magic’ surrounding these old collectibles than it is about the music makes perfect sense. It’s also interesting to think of a time when Blue Note was ‘just another jazz label’, though I do think those Blue Note covers would have stood out to me in a record store back then. I agree with Michel that Reid Miles’ role in Blue Note’s rise to cult fame might currently be being underestimated. True, he did covers for Prestige, but the Prestige covers often failed to boast the artist’s name in big block letters while being coupled by an intimate photo. In contrast, despite often being very attractive visually, the Prestige covers and album titles were quite random at times and thus failed to identify a ‘messenger’ for the message.
I also find the mythic contrast between the ‘jam sessions’ of Prestige and the ‘rehearsed’ sides of Blue Note to have some sort of base in reality. Generally speaking, Blue Note sessions do sound tighter, and on the contrary, though there are many Prestige sessions that I feel are well produced, I have heard just as many that have that jam session vibe, which at the end of the day doesn’t make as profound a creative statement to me. If I can tell that the band could have been better rehearsed I’ll probably still dig the album but I do notice when an album is well produced, and I’d say that Blue Note albums achieved this with an incredibly high degree of consistency. Put simply, I don’t think there’s any denying that Alfred Lion was a brilliant producer. (Rudolf: Despite the points I just made, I do understand what seems like your frustration with Blue Note’s singular cult status in the world of jazz).
Insane eBay prices never fail to make me laugh, but at this point in my time as a jazz record collector, they never, ever, ever surprise me.
PS: Loved Art Klempner’s post!
Michel: you played your devil’s advocate role very well. I knew you to be non-sectarian.
rl1856/rich: loved the deep insight you are sharing with us in your posts.
Ethan: when Prestige had just moved over from downtown Manhattan to Bergenfield N.J. in 1958, they re-launched the New Jazz label. The artists, cover design (Esmond Edwards), vinyl quality (and initial price – $ 3.98) were all top notch. This situation lasted two to three years. This is my favourite Prestige/NJ period. This corresponds with Prestige 7142 (Soultrane) up to 7191, roughly. Happy to see you on common ground.