Condition is Still Critical . . . Isn’t It?
Let’s look at some random jazz vinyl we are watching and have been watching on eBay, starting with Joe Henderson, Page One, Blue Note 4140. This looked to be an original pressing, listed in VG or VG+ condition for the record and G+ for the cover with water damage on the bottom. There were 13 bidders for this record and the final price was $439. From the same seller there was Sonny Clark, Cool Struttin’, Blue Note 1588. This was an original West 63rd Street deep-groove pressing, listed in VG+ condition for the record and VG for the cover. The final price was $2,475. Over the years, when people have contacted me for advice about selling their collections, I have always emphasized the importance of condition. While it is still of great import, of course, it seems that there has been a shift in the market and collectors are more willing to pay high prices for records in less than great condition. We’ve all been noticing this for a while, I’m sure, so it probably requires an adjustment for those of us buying or selling records to be aware of this pretty fundamental change in what jazz collectors are looking for these days. As with most trends, you wonder if this one will last and will become kind of a new standard in our little world of jazz collecting.
Then again, perhaps there are some bargains left on eBay, if you consider something like this to be a bargain (I do): Gigi Gryce and the Jazz Lab Quintet, Riverside 229. This was not a first pressing, which would have had a white label. But it was an early pressing with the blue labels, reels and mic logo and deep groove. The record was listed in VG condition and the cover was VG+. The final price was $34.33. If this same record, in this, was a second pressing on Blue Note, the final price would have been quite a bit higher than $34.33 don’t you think?
Finally, I always get a kick out of seeing records I’ve never seen before. I’ve been going to record stores looking for jazz records for more than 50 years, plus I’ve been watching eBay closely for 20, so it doesn’t happen very often, but I’ve never seen this record: Curtis Counce Quintet, Exploring the Future, Dooto, 247. I assume this is an original pressing. The cover is pretty trashed and the record is graded VG. The start price is $320, the auction closes later today and so far there are no bidders. Interesting sidemen with Harold Land and Elmo Hope. Per Popsike, the top price for this record was $471, and that was for a copy still in its original loose seal. That one sold in 2021. Do you think the buyer broke the seal and listened to the record, or preserved it in its original packaging? Knowing what I know about collectors, my educated guess is that the record has never been opened or played.
some people really seem to think vinyl is supposed to some like raking cement. i don’t get it, but whatever works for them, i suppose.
I think condition is always important but matters to me personally less for NM-/VG++ records. In other words, I won’t pay a premium for top condition records. Why? I play my records and don’t mind the occasional noise within reason. I am perfectly fine with VG+ records and covers. I am also concerned that I will mess up a top condition record if I play it or mishandle the cover.
I have also found that buying records based on play grading is helpful but not definitive. Different turntables and cartridges track and sound differently. What plays fine on 1 set-up may not on mine. I am personally also surprised that people (maybe some of the readers on this forum) will spend $1K+ on an individual record and play them on a set-up that in total costs less than that. People dial up super- high tracking weights that will push through anything and won’t skip but risk groove wear, etc.
I played my copy of that Gryce a few weeks ago (fantastic!) and thought the same thing, as we often do here: on another label this record would be coveted. It’s ponderous stuff. And I’m bummed to see this only brought $34! Could be partially attributed to lack of a detailed description. I’ll never buy a record when the seller doesn’t make an effort to point out any blemishes, etc. I think most of us can read the words “light surface scuffing throughout” or “half-inch lightly feelable line” and generally know how that will translate in playback. But just saying “VG” doesn’t cut it for me.
Visual grading is often misleading, if it looks terrible then it play terrible ? Back in the day many of the more “valuable” records were pressed on vinyl that for whatever reason sounded pretty good when the surface said “G or VG-” I have been pleasantly surprised for over 50 years !
we used to throw all the VG- and below in the $1 pile. maybe that’s why my other car is not a BMW
I agree that appearance may not be as relevant, depending upon the equipment used for playback. I have used my Garrard 301 with a wooden tone arm for over 50 years. I recently found an original pressing of a Lee Morgan BN which was really scratched and dirty, I wiped it with my “home-made” solution and it played through with very little extraneous sound. I would rate it at least VG, Other equipment may not gotten the same result.
And now an age old question: What per cent does having a cover for an original BN pressing, or for any good jazz lp count? I have several, both 10 inch and 12 inch without covers that I have acquired over the years.
Unfortunately, there will more than likely be a correction, when the current crop of enthusiastic new collectors move into the ranks of the jaded experienced collectors. There is always a lot of pain when entering into a new hobby, and record collecting is a prime example.
The Counce does indeed appear to be original. It’s less known, as it was a later issue. Perkins and Sheldon were gone. Elmo Hope replaced Perkins, so it’s almost like an extra Elmo Hope album. You can find extra (stereo) cuts on this Bel Canto release: Curtis Counce Quintet* / Buddy Collette Quintet – Jazz On The Bounce With Collette And Counce
Url: https://www.discogs.com/release/5343863-Curtis-Counce-Quintet-Buddy-Collette-Quintet-Jazz-On-The-Bounce-With-Collette-And-Counce
The seller’s price is way out of line with the market, obviously. I wouldn’t nibble, much less bite, on that one.
As one who works with college students (as well as talking with my 22 Ye old son) they really aren’t picky about condition – at least at this point in their early collecting lives. They can listen to music on Spotify with no crackle – so they expect crackle and pop on actual vinyl records and seem to consider it part of the aesthetic. For myself, I regularly buy jazz in less than stellar condition because as a pastor with 3 kids in college it’s all I can afford. I especially love to find clean vinyl with trashed covers because I really don’t care about the covers and it saves me a ton on records I love to listen to. I was just down at Bananas warehouse in St Pete and I love to browse the bins with vg or less jazz that they won’t sell online. I found some great records I could never touch if they were in better condition.
The last Curtis Counce group album to be issued, on Dootone, is an Elmo Hope album in reality. I like it very much. Of course, Carl Perkins and Elmo have quite a different way of playing.
I almost never break the seal of sealed albums which I intend to keep in my collection.
Re the less demanding condition standards these days, I am amazed. As a seller, I always thought impeccable condition to be a price booster.
Happy New Year to all of you.
I m as amazed as Rudolf by the new condition standards. Maybe Instagram trophies…it has been discussed many times…
Happy new year to all !