How Much Would You Pay For These?????
Whilst I was away there was some email, as usual, so let me get to some of that as long as I am catching up. Clifford sent me a note under the subject “1568 Comedy Watch,” with the accompanying text: “I don’t know if people are getting bored with these, but I still find 1568 auctions fairly amusing/interesting.” Attached was this link to Hank Mobley, Blue Note 1568. The auction as over and the final price was $960. Was it a copy you would actually put on your turntable? Not me. The record was listed in G+ condition. Was it a record you’d be proud to display on your shelves? Not really. The cover was in VG- condition with water damage and small seam split. Was it a record you’d spend $960 on, so you could say you own a copy of the rarest of the rare Blue Notes? Clearly, there was at least one buyer who would say amen to that. It was funny seeing this email from Clifford, because just a few minutes later I got a separate email from Mike with the same link and the following question: “I wondered if you or your readership would be willing to part with US$960 for BN1568 in this condition? Speaking for myself,the answer is “no thanks.” While it would be presumptive for me to speak for the readership here at Jazz Collector, I would suggest that the answer is a resounding “No” for the vast majority, but it is certainly possible that the winning bidder for this record is here amongst us, although not necessarily anxious to step forward.
This note came in from Michael with the subject: “Quiet Kenny at 2700.” The text said: “I know for a fact that this copy sold for 2700. A dealer friend of mine sold it.” Here’s the record in question: Kenny Dorham, Quiet Kenny, New Jazz 8225. This was an original purple label pressing in M- condition for the record and the cover. It was sold to the best offer, which we now know was $2,700. Michael — were you surprised? I’m not. Not for a copy of that record in that condition. Of course, I sold a copy in that condition 35 years ago. By now you all know the old refrain. I bought a boat, the boat sank, I’ve never had my hands on Quiet Kenny again.
Finally, this note came in from Jason under the subject: “A real goldmine.” The text was: “Thought you’d find this funny. A used jazz price guide priced higher than many of the LPs inside. Think I’ll sell my copy and buy a Blue Note.” I can’t copy the entire note, but it shows a listing from Amazon of the “Goldmine Jazz Album Price Guide, 2nd Edition by Neely, (2004) Paperback,” with a variety of listings. The prices, quite astoundingly, were: $595, $749, $764, $874. Does it sound like a joke. Well, check out this link and you’ll find one price at, tada, $1,452.71. Does anyone have any clue as to why this volume would command these kinds of prices????????????????????
There were 14 bidders on the Mobley. That’s quite a few bidders who wanted to buy an expensive G+ album….lol.
I buy original records but that being said, i buy records to listen to. While a g+ record might play without skipping and may have tolerable background noise, it is not worth the risk for that much money for me, especially from ebay. I buy vg+ or better only from ebay.
Has anyone seen this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOHN-COLTRANE-w-KENNY-BURRELL-CATS-INSANELY-RARE-SEALED-ORIG62-NEW-JAZZ-MONO-LP-/141747549935?hash=item2100cff6ef
How can the seller guarantee 100% original when address information is missing from the back? Even with the Prestige address, I’ve seen Status and Blue Label pressings in early covers. Is this Bob striking again?
More than likely a blue trident label on The Cats. I’ve had that pressing before in the same jacket that djuk has on offer here. It was clean and $10.
G+ Mobley for nearly a grand is absurd. Normally I would pass on something like that but if I found it in the field for $15, you know I’d be psyched to sell it to overbidders on eBay…
touch call on the mobley – while I wouldn’t fork out a grand for it, I would take a risk at a few hundred…bidding on eBay is a circus, people get caught up in the hype of bidding (myself included)and wind up over paying for records…I have a good track record of stopping myself at least! 🙂
I have that Goldmine Jazz Album Price Guide, and while it is a very useful reference to have on hand I cannot imagine why anyone would pay that kind of money for it.
Andy made the right remark. A N.J. sleeve without the proper adress and without a broad spine is not an original. The spine text is not on the spine, but somewhere close to it. I know this issue of “the Cats”. The vinyl is noisy, probably no DG and the shade of violet is not clear and bright (almost pink, as a first pressing should be), but sombre (darker). Also, if a N.J. is sealed, it cannot, by definition, be a first pressing. I have had many of these in my hand, they all had a pressing default in the last track of side 1 or 2. It is long ago, I don’t remember 1 or 2. Finally I settled for a first pressing in E condition, which sounded much better than the Mint copies of the 2nd (or 3rd) pressing.
Andy, you ask:
How can the seller guarantee 100% original when address information is missing from the back?
And then you provide the answer.
It is, indeed a Djukic,
God bless him.
Don’t the earliest covers for cats also have the price on back?
Back in March I posted here what Bob meant by his 100% Guarantee when asked:
What is the recourse if this “100% GUARANTEED ORIGINAL FIRST PRESSING” turns out to be a later pressing?
“None whatsoever, I am afraid.”
So what does this 100% guarantee actually guarantee?
“That means that the seller has attested that, to his best knowledge, knowledge and belief, the disc is the original, first pressing.”
Mike: that is correct. They had a printed price on the back ($ 3.98) The sealed copies of the mid-sixties were pressed on cheap vinyl and they came without inner sleeves. Cost cutting à la Weinstock.
The Goldmine Book price is not really valid. If you noticed on a lot of Amazon used Items there are very often a couple of sellers that have insanely high prices on items. I have also the impression that they rarely actually have the item in stock, but aquire the item from somewhere else if someone buys “their” copy. The high price would create the margin.
A buyer would probably be better of searching eBay or other sources.
A change in subject: I have found another pressing variation I cannot explain. As you may recall the last one was a copy of Introducing Kenny Burrell with three P marks pressed in one side, which I hadn’t seen before. This time I have found a copy of 4059 Undercurrent with a 9M on both sides. Otherwise the lp has all of the characteristics of a first press: 63, dg-2, P, RVG stamp, and the cover is NYC, laminated. My question is how is this even remotely possible. In Cohen’s book he notes that the last 9M is 4001 Newk’s Time. If, for example, I have found a 4002 with a 9M I’d say “OK, a very rare, previously unknown 1st press,” but in this case I’m stumped. Anybody have experience with this one who can help? I’m happy to post pics if I can figure out how to get a good shot and for verification purposes. Thanks,
david j – I have multple 4000 series Blue Notes with 9M on both sides after Newk’s Time. For example, I have a first press of Hank Mobley’s Roll Call with 9M on both sides. The last 4000 series first press in my collection with 9M on both sides is Jackie McLean’s Bluesnik (4067). I have also heard of Lou Donldson’s Here Tis having 9M on both sides, although I do not have this one in my collection.
Now I’m going to have to go home and check some of my 4000s.. intriguing.
To me,those Goldmine Price Guides “from years gone by” are close to worthless. Very few-if any-of the prices listed would have any relevance to what the same item would fetch today. Maybe a lot more, maybe a lot less. Since this lp collecting “habit” is often impulse driven,my sense is that NO price should be written in stone-affected as they are by time of year, availability(any other copy of same lp currently listed),time of day when bid ends, number of OTHER high-bid items up for auction that week,etc. BTW, anyone paying nearly 1k for an lp you can’t safely play or proudly display(yuk!),should contact me for better ways to dispose of their money(Option #1:Give it to me.)
Re: the Amazon listings for the Goldmine Guide.
I used to work in used bookstores, and a significant part of my job was researching the books that came in to determine the price range and a fair price. Since the common used book-dealing sites do not list “Sold” prices, the range you’re often working with is only those that are available. Knowing that, there are two scenarios that can play out to get a book into ridiculous(ly unjustified) prices:
1. There are some used book dealers who do nothing but take the highest price and double or triple it, on the assumption that someone with more money than sense will simply assume the most expensive copy = the best/cleanest/nicest copy and buy it.
2. A particular book, at some point, ends up being unavailable online through most of the major sources (Abe and Amazon for the scalpers; a few other sites for the diligent). Because it is not listed on any common site, and therefore has no benchmark price, the greedy/inexperienced dealer assumes it is a very rare book and thus charges an exorbitant price for it.
Sometimes 1 & 2 combine and echo each other into the stratosphere: 1. inexperienced dealer lists otherwise unavailable book for high price (say $100). 2. shady dealer doubles that price ($200). 3. book 1 somehow sells (at $100). 4. another shady dealer doubles the first shady dealer’s shady price ($400). Lather rinse repeat. 5. Other dealers think they have expensive, rare book, as the only listings are for $200 and $400, and list it for similarly ridiculous price, somewhat lower than the only/highest price ($300).
I’m guessing something like that, and the fact that we’re dealing with niche books related to a hobby that gets one accustomed to splashing out, is what contributed to the skyrocketing price of those guides.
The old Goldmine guides are useful for release dates, not prices. I use my jazz 2nd Ed all the time.
JIm- I checked and my copy of Roll Cal also has the 9m, which I thought was contrary to Cohen’s book, but I can’t seem to find where it says that. Interestingly my copy of 4041 does not have 9m on either side. I’ll need to go back and see about any others. If you don’t mind would you please check to see what others you have after 4001 with 9m? Trying to find first pressings may have just gotten a little trickier. Many thanks,
The Goldmine is pretty good for release albeit a bit “messy” and hard to find releases from time to time. I look in my copy very often and combine with popsike for more recent price information.
For the record, my copy of Roll Call also has the 9M, as does my copy of Here ’tis.
David J – so it looks like we have confirmed 9M on 4001, 4058, 4059, 4066 and 4067. I can also confirm that I have a copy of Donald Byrd at the Cafe Half Note Vol. 1 with 9M, but it’s a stereo first press 84060. Very interesting to see the reappearance of the 9M in this range in the 4050s and 4060s.
So who was watching this 1568? NY23 side 2 and in nice shape, went for a pretty low price IMHO:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HANK-MOBLEY-s-t-ORIG-1ST-1957-Mono-LP-BLUE-NOTE-W-63rd-RVG-DG-Ear-NO-R-RARE-/311434574021?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=WYXbnKA96OhocH%252BZ7gSlcIwRDZc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc