Hype, Hyperbole and High Prices; Just Another Day on eBay
Back on eBay again for the first time in weeks and was greeted to this: John Coltrane, Coltrane, Prestige 7105. What caught my eye about this listing was this line: “Awesome red cover of one of the rarest jazz albums.” Then I saw that the bidding had already reached more than $510 for this second pressing with the New Jersey label. The combination of high hyperbole and high price, could only mean one seller and, of course, I was right. You can click the link and guess yourself, but for regular readers here it won’t be much of stumper. The record and cover are graded as VG++. I kind of like the red cover, but prefer the original green. Does anyone know why Prestige did this, not just with this record, but with others? Did they think people would want to buy the same record twice? Rudolf?
And what would a week on eBay be without a copy of Hank Mobley, Blue Note 1568. This looks like an original promo pressing with the New York 23 label, although there is an interesting reference to a rude message on the listing that you should take a look at. Racist, possibly, because the seller is based in South Korea? Weird that the seller would refer to it in the listing. Anyway, the record is listed in EX+ (superb) condition, and the cover is Ex. I will say this: For a record as rare as this one, it seems to be on sale pretty regularly on eBay. Just saying. The bidding is already at $5,655 with 50 bids. Have we had a legitimate $10,000 record on Jazz Collector? I’ve been away so long I’ve forgotten.
I’m getting really fed up with eBay and Discogs lately. On Discogs it’s filler/damaged copies with ridiculously high asking prices. On eBay it’s deception…just the other day I saw an OJC of “lush life” advertised as 1960 prestige original and blurry pictures to boot.
So tired of the “original!” reissue crap!
The John Coltrane red cover is a 2nd. My copy has the back cover W50th address but a NJ label. There are some red cover copies on popsike with matching W50th addresses.
As for whether Prestige would change covers when re-releasing titles to confuse the buying public, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least. I bought a couple myself at flea markets years ago and felt like an idiot when I went to file them away.
Prestige even reissued Elmo Hope’s Informal Jazz 7043 as Two Tenors 7043 when John Coltrane and Hank Mobley became better know.
P.S. Two Tenors 7043 itself had two different covers!!
Folkways did different colored versions of the same LP sleeve. In their case, I think they started with different colored paper as the base for their grayscale printings. Different deal with this Trane LP, though.
Speaking of our friend who-should-not-be-named, he is up to his old tricks and selling a copy of Bud Powell “Bud!” advertised as “ORIGINAL 1957” but with a Liberty sleeve, Liberty inner, no “ear” & New York side two label. When questioned about this obviously post-’66 pressing he replied:
“Likr most record collectors, we go by the label and label *** ALONE *** and 63rd street label *** IS ***
the first pressings of this title.
All other factors and considerations are – for us – of ephemeral nature, although they have
been fully and properly disclosed so that bidders can make their own judgment.”
There is…no way that cover is VG++.
Mobley was taken down.
the red version of 7105 seems some sort of an anomaly. Indeed, Prestige would re-package albums which did not sell enough (Hope – 7043, to become “Two Tenors”, in two different designs, the 1st emphasizing Mobley, the 2nd Trane) or Gene Ammons sessions which needed a second life (7039, 7060, 7083), or a freshening up like Rollins’ 7038 from Hannan to Reid Miles’ white morse style design .
The original 7105 was greenish/yellow. I have a red version identical to Bob’s. Still G E M records on the rear, but without the NYC adress, in fact no adress at all on the rear, bottom. So this is 1958 vintage, early N.J. pressing.
I tried to find the Mobley BLP 1568, but the link gives me BLP 1576.
To find recent sale of 1568, go to eBay, type in Hank Mobley vinyl records, when items appear scroll down left side until you see either completed items or sold items, click on either, then go to sort by highest first and you’ll see the latest offering from person in South Korea sold for $6100.00, to a most determined bidder whom it appears their first bid was at $300.00.
In reply to Woody’s comment, Prestige’s repackaging of the same recordings certainly seems designed to hoodwink consumers.
Thelonious PRLP 142 (1953) is expanded with new artwork into Thelonious Monk Trio PRLP 7027 (1956) which three years later is given new artwork and rechristened Monk’s Moods PRLP 7159 (1959). Eight years later it is given new packaging and re-named The High Priest PR 7508 (1967). If Weinstein hadn’t sold the company in 1971, I have little doubt there would have been more. At least he kept the graphic designers in work!
Could be a printing error as well.
For the BLP 1568, based on that chap’s nonsensical diatribe over several JC postings, there is no way I’d take a chance on that copy. IMO I would expect severe pushback from the seller if there was a difference of opinion on grading or some other issue that would necessitate a return. The dude has some sort of attitude, that is evident.
There must be a lot of newer, uneducated (in the sense of record collecting) buyers on eBay who take these unscrupulous sellers descriptions as being correct. They may never know how they wasted their hard earned cash but hopefully they will find out so they don’t make that mistake again. Unfortunately I don’t see that happening with this particular seller. People read is ridiculous hype and bid blindly.
Re the Mobley auction that netted $6100.00, what’s amazing to me is that one bidder deemed “O..S’ by eBay bid $1660.00 on the David Oistrakh lp, $6000.00 on the Jacques Dumont lp, $100.00 on the Tin Brooks lp and $6100.00 on the Mobley lp, winning just that one.
I would love to be able to bid $13, 860.00 on records over the course of five days.
Feed the hungry, lift up the poor and heal the sick. If ya still got any $ left THEN spend 6 large on the Mobley record.
So that Coltrane second pressing sold for $810?!?
I’ve got bills to pay and may be ready to part with some stuff, Art, so I’m really torn. (No, I don’t have BN 1568.)
Speaking of oddball reissues and others endangered species : here’s something i have never seen nor known about !!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TOMMY-FLANAGAN-TRIO-Overseas-PRESTIGE-PRLP-7134-VAN-GELDER/283102816534?hash=item41ea3e2916%3Ag%3AguwAAOSw0dVbcld2&_sacat=0&_nkw=tommy+flanagan&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1311.R1.TR4.TRC2.A0.H0.Xtommy+flanagan+.TRS0
Wow, neither have I! Wonder what that one is going to sell for.
Michel: the seller lists an original 7134 sleeve housing the fake stereo re-issue # 7632. Fyi, the 7632 sleeve features a picture of the J.J. Johnson qnt on tour in Sweden. This is an apparent and deliberate mixing up of two different issues of the same music.
I have had a copy of Rollins’ “Tour de Force” Prestige 7126 with a NYC adress on the sleeve but with blue trident Bergenfield adress labels, with catalogue number 7126. Yellow/black Prestige labels, but with a N.J. adress would have been logic, but blue trident labels, indicating an issue date posterior to the re-issue 7207 “Sonny Boy”, is bizarre.
Wow, that’s oddball. Wonder what it’ll sell for.
Incidentally would that even have Van Gelder in dead wax? And haha Rudolf, that reissue cover is pretty hilarious in how it says ‘Trio’ over a photo of five people.
cellery, the quintet trio is fun indeed. I will check whether RvG put his seal in the dead wax of 7134, the recordings having been made by Metronome in Stockholm (3 EP’s). Maybe just for the re-mastering. Certainly he was involved in re-mastering into stereo for the US re-issue and will have put his van gelder stamp. I don’t have the latter.
Cellery – If you’re asking about the Tommy Flanagan, the original W.50th pressing has RVG in the run-off so they may be using the original mono masters for the trident pressing. I’ve seen other Prestige trident re-releases that had stereo labels but they used the original mono masters for the lp production. I accidentally discovered this while listening to one with headphones…the mono/stereo button on my amp made no difference to the sound stage.
P.S. 7134, recorded by the Swedish engineer Wilholm, has been mastered by van Gelder who put his rvg stamp in the dead wax.
I could not resist giving a spin to the J.J. Johnson qnt on Columbia, featuring the same rhythm section. What a diffrence in sound! Normally CL has excellent sound, but Wilholm/van Gelder beat CL in every respect.
Woody, I concur, not just fake stereo with false echos etc., but real mono. Bob Weinstock followed the stereo trend, but on paper only.
Rudolf, yes, it’s a shame that Bob Weinstock always chose profit over quality otherwise Prestige could’ve been perceived historically on the same level as Blue Note. They both employed the services of many of the same jazz musicians, hired Rudy Van Gelder for his expertise, and pressed their vinyl at Abbey Record Manufacturing, Inc but…….
By incorporating a lower quality across the board, excpecially for their budget lines, New Jazz, Moodsville, etc. a lot of the Prestige catalog just doesn’t match up to the Blue Note Sound.
Columbia Records, Contemporary Records, RCA Records, Vee Jay, etc. also had amazing quality control but for the most part didn’t share the same roster of talent.
Woody, I don’t agree with your statement that Bob Weinstock ‘always chose profit over quality’. As a matter of fact, throughout the NYC and early Bergenfield period, say up to end 1958, Prestige and New Jazz issues were in every respect on a par with Blue Note.
His cost saving began only in 1959/1960. Also his roster of artists was not of the same high level as before. His only big name being Eric Dolphy. Walt Dickerson and Jaki Byard, talented as they were, never broke through. The cash cows were the tenor and organ sessions, Gene Ammons and the endless re-issues of old material of Miles, Trane, Rollins etc.
I miss Jazzcollector.
Me, too @Japhy. Must be vacation time. There are some delectable items from Jazz Record Center ending tomorrow at 2 PM.
Can’t Al retire and do this full time ?
Jazz Record Center’s recent auction just ended with an Art Blakey test pressing having a winning bid of over $3000.00.
Gotta love it.
That was quite an auction, for several items of interest!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonny-Clark-on-Blue-Note-BLP-4091/292682022195?hash=item4425353d33:g:MBMAAOSwQDpbcxy4
Well, its around 15 times the price i paid for a similar copy 20 years ago. And ironically it was from…guess who !!!!!
The most surprising JRM sale in that recent batch was that copy of The Three Sounds – Moods, which went for $202.50. While perfectly OK, it’s neither a rare nor particularly desirable record. Nice copies routinely sell for <$50.
Michel, I too recall buying records, some were Blue Notes, back in the day, from JRC in the $100-$200 range and thinking that was a lot. Now I wish I had held on to them
I second the call for Al to retire and do “Jazz Collector” full-time. Learning about records, the details, the history, the artists, etc. is quite simply – a bunch of fun! This site could grow into a Jazz Hub Extraordinaire.
i like my trident label BLUE tinted cover Coltrane 7105