I Remember Clifford (And Lee Morgan, Too)
Sometimes you’re on eBay and you’re browsing and then along comes an item and it’s like, wow, I would really like to have that. And thus it is with me and this item: Brown and Roach Incorporated, Emarcy 36008. This is a Canadian pressing in G condition for the record and the cover. Not too appealing so far, right? Well, here’s the thing: The record is signed. Not just signed, but signed by Clifford Brown. If you think about when Clifford died, 1956, and how young he was, 25, you would have to think that there are very few Clifford Brown autographs anywhere. Not to mention that he is probably one of my top five favorite musicians of all time (actually, I will think further on that subject and do another post on it this weekend). So this record has Clifford’s signature and also signatures by Sonny Rollins, Max Roach, George Morrow and, presumably, Richie Powell. A few things, however, do make the record somewhat less appealing to me. One is I don’t actually collect autographed records as do some other people — hello, there, Don-Lucky. But I would love to have a Clifford Brown autograph. Two is that it seems the owner
came back to Max in 1983 and had him re-sign it on the back in a black felt marker, which, to me, kind of taints some of the things I like about it. Anyway, there are nearly four days to go on this interesting collectible and the bidding is already in the $200 range, so it seems that there are others out there who, like me, would really, really like to have a Clifford Brown signature. There’s just something about knowing that he actually touched the album, had it in his hands, took the time to sign it.
Someone had mentioned this record on another post: Lee Morgan, The Sidewinder, Blue Note 4157. And what do we make of this? It does seem to have deep grooves, which would not be characteristic of the pressings of this era. The seller doesn’t mention the deep grooves in his listing. He does mention the ear, but does not mention the RVG in the dead wax. I’d pose questions if I was buying, although the price is already up there at $220 for a copy in M- condition. The seller seems to believe he knows quite a bit about the record, perhaps more than anyone in the world. He states: “This is only one of 4,000 records made at the first pressing.” I’ve never encountered such a definitive statement about Blue Note pressings and the specific quantity pressed and I know it’s been discussed here many times over the past seven years (yes, that’s how long we’ve been around as a blog), with no definitive answer. So, perhaps if the seller is a reader of Jazz Collector, he can share with us the source of the detailed knowledge he seems to possess. Perhaps this has been settled somewhere and I either forgot it or haven’t come across it: There are, indeed, two new Blue Note books out now, so maybe I’m just behind the knowledge curve. Someone, I’m sure, will set it straight.
That Clifford Brown autograph is insane.
I don’t believe those are deep grooves on the 4157- the grooves look pretty much identical to my copy, which I have always listed as no DG
As I said in the last thread, Cohen stated that the original of 4157 has DG’S, although my impression is that DG copies are relatively rare – Popsike’s two highest sales copies are both without DG, although there is at least one copy (selling for $200 less!)listed as having DG’s on both sides
No deep groove on the 4157, 100% sure.
have one no DG.. 30 euros 🙂 never seen a dg
Here’s a DG Sidewinder (at least one side) that went for $82…
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEE-MORGAN-THE-SIDEWINDER-LP-RECORD-BLUE-NOTE-BLP-4157-DG-NY-/151545994643?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEDWX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=veZiwrOrI1B8s%252F%252FJhzZnXvO0XqE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
agree, GST
If it is indeed VG+/VG+, I would consider it an outstanding bargain
BTW, it has been re-listed for some reason, closing tonight at 8, and now at $20
got my sidewinder with no DG for a tiny, tiny price. also “the tokyo blues” with no DG. up after the 4100 range DG/non-DG isn’t really an issue for me.
frederik, what makes you so sure that cohen is wrong on this? i don’t have a dog in the fight, but would love to hear what your source is, as my 4157 is non-DG and in beautiful condition.
Gregory The Fish: I meant the copy on eBay has no deep groove. It should have DG.
That sidewinder has staining on the sleeve too. I wouldnt call NM. Something fishing there IMO
My sidewinder has the RVG in the dead zone, but no ear.
That LM Sidewinder is the same as mine, they are not DG. No way! (I love Joe Henderson on this date)
It is incredible that we still have something to discuss about “Sidewinder” such a well documented record, regarding cover and music. Blue Note seems to be the inexhaustive source of discussion among jazz collectors. Japanese collectors and taste are actually ruling the market.
@ Earl. The relisting of Sidewinder went for double the original listing. It’s all about timing.
So the seller benefited from the re-listing – but I still wonder what exactly happened – after all the first auction was in fact completed. One would have to believe the buyer dropped out of sight; lucky for the seller!?!
I am somewhat in sympathy with GTF in that I agree that DG’s are much hyped above, IMHO, their true value.
However it is undeniable that DG’s, associated as they are with the early days of LP’s, are valued by many buyers. Which in turn means that if you ever plan to sell any part of your collection, you would probably get more money for the DG versions.
…The Clifford Brown autograph is definitely a great find, but more so because we don’t seen them up for sale on ebay very often, especially on the front cover of an LP. It goes without saying that we really have no way of knowing just how rare it is with any real certainty these days, especially with autograph forgery as rampant as it is. Although, Al does have a good point… That since Clifford Browns life was tragically cut short, we can only presume there would be a very limited quantity of items he signed over the years, and who knows how many may still exist to this day. (This can also be said for many of the great Jazz artists as well… ) As for the second Max Roach autograph, it really isn’t a bad thing in my mind, and certainly paints an interesting picture of its original owner. Although one might wonder how a Canadian pressing with a US cover ended up in Germany in the first place… Generally speaking, the signatures aren’t bad for the most part either as far as I can tell.
indeed it is great to talk about ears, dg’s and more on the sidewinder album, love it…. but what about Totem Pole, on side A!!!!!!
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Well the DG Sidewinder is back up on the bay. Something fishy is going on.