Jazz Vinyl Listings That Raise Questions
Here’s one I’ve never seen before: Bobby Jaspar All Stars Band, Modern Jazz at Club Saint Germain, Barclay 84023. This looks to be an original French pressing that was apparently owned by Bobby Jaspar who, unfortunately seemed not to take such great care of it. The cover looks pretty beat up, I’d say VG-, but the seller lists the cover as VG+ and also lists the record as VG+, so you’d have to be a little skeptical, I guess. The start price is $300 and so far there are no bidders. I imagine the record is quite rare, in that I’ve never seen in in 40-plus years of scouring record shelves all over the U.S. and other parts of the world.
Someone please explain this one to me: Clifford Brown Memorial Album, Blue Note 1526. This is a New York USA pressing, with a West 61st Street address on the cover. In other words, nothing about this record is close to an original first pressing and, at best, the vinyl was issued, when, in the early 1960s? Not to mention the vinyl is in VG condition. The cover is VG+. Somehow, there have been four bids on this record and the price is close to $200. Explanations please?
Our friends at Euclid Records seem to have made a nice discovery/score:
They have a bunch of records listed as coming from the stock of a record store that closed in 1971 and whose records haven’t been touched since then. Here’s an example: The Unique Thelonious Monk, Riverside 209. I do have a question about these that I would need answered before bidding, and that is this: How does Euclid know if these are original pressings? Have they actually broken the seal and looked at them? I was buying jazz records in 1971 and, at best, a record on the shelf in those days, with a factory seal, would have been no better than a blue label, certainly not a white label. This Monk record is in the $135, so it would be an important question to have answered, don’t you think?
i wondered that too. euclid occasionally has great items for great prices, but more often that not i find that they are a bit overpriced. the Art Blakey impulses shouldn’t cost $50, for example.
but I love them just the same.
I have this picture sleeve of # 12-209, but the record is a blue label DG, a second issue.
It is common knowledge that Riverside albums came on the market unsealed. The buyer may find a second pressing with blue labels.
Coincidentally, this week a European company is releasing a facsimile reissue of the Jaspar record.PERSONNEL:
BOBBY JASPAR, tenor sax, flute
SACHA DISTEL, guitar
RENÉ URTREGER, piano
BENNOIT QUERSIN, bass
JEAN-LOUIS VIALE, drums
Recorded December 27 and 29, 1955 at the Pathé Magellan studio, Paris.
Original LP issue: Barclay 84.023.
SIDE A
01. Bag’s Groove 2’48
02. Memory of Dick 4’40
03. Miles Tone 5’21
04. Minor Drops 7’51
SIDE B
01. I Remember April 3’23
02. You Stepped Out Of a Dream 4’33
03. I Can’t Get Started 4’12
04. Night In Tunisia 5’11
that certainly is no coincidence!
quote:
” How does Euclid know if these are original pressings?”
unquote:
Well that is the question that always arises when socalled “factory sealed” records come up for sale. One simply cannot know without breaking the seal and then it’s no more factory sealed. Collector’s dilemma. The sellers assume that buyers of sealed records leave them as they are, so no one will ever know if it’s an original or not.
that is exactly the point: buyers of sealed records will not break the seal. this being said, buying sealed records is a risky business.
Ref. Clifford Brown Memorial Album.I have same copy address wise,and probably in better condition. I paid £14 (approx $25.)Good deal or not ?.
Geoff – I bought my copy for $20, and thought it was a fair deal / good price. Original stampers, sounds fantastic.
One of my holy grails. Been a fan of Oscar Pettiford for a long time and just had to have this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jazz-10-George-Wallington-Showcase-Blue-Note-5045-/271583677797?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item3f3ba60d65
Many of the vintage sealed copies that I’ve bought have finger prints, scuffs and scratches. It seems like in the 60s records got sent back to the record companies and resealed. The records had aged shrink wrap and period stickers on them. The records that I can recall that I’ve had this happen with were on RCA, Verve and Apple. Maybe someone knows more about the practice of record companies resealing returned records?
I have a Near Mint copy of white label DG The Unique in a beautiful NM cover. The cover is framed and the one on the photo from Euclid Records is not (according to my visual assessment), so I believe there is a later pressing inside …
I think Euclid states when sealed and if it gives the label description it is because it is not sealed. The LP may be unplayed but not sealed…At least that is my impression after reading their listings yesterday.
So, the assumption is that Euclid received these LP’s sealed, and opened them allowing them to access the labels for identification, but thereby knowing they were “mint, unplayed?” Seems a bit far-fetched to me, particularly in view of Rudolf’s statement that Riversides were issued un-sealed
The Unique Thelonious does not say “sealed” in the title. The description specifically says white label. The lp is listed as mint unplayed condition which could be true.
sealed records actually turn me off as a buyer. i want to KNOW what i am getting! and i want to listen to it! i only ever bought one sealed record, a no-big-news pharaoh sanders on the later neon impulse label. it is an original and played very nice, but it was 10$. i could never take such financial risk on a $300 miles album, for example.
I got a couple things out of that same Wichita store’s collection and they were not sealed but were unplayed originals.
Just bought Miles Davis, Early Miles,sealed red cover. All ready have same with green cover.Watch this space.
I just purchased Gene Ammons -Just Jug on Argo 698 DG Blue Label in Amazing condition. I know some people really don’t like Organ but Eddie Buster plays lightly and makes Ammons shine.
Any other recommendations out there when it comes to Gene Ammons ?
Cheers.
So I asked Euclid about the Unique – it was not sealed and had white label … And the final selling price was high accordingly!
Under “condition” the word “unopened” appears; and in the general description of the collection he calls them sealed, so the status of sealed or not sealed for a given item is at least confusing.
What I really would like to know is why the label of “un-played” is acceptable? – if the record is not factory sealed (and we’ve already talked about that dubious status), you can certainly describe it as mint, or preferably, NM, but how can you be sure it was never played?
I ended up being the winner of the Unique Thelonious album. I called Euclid and spoke to the guy who did the Ebay listings. When listing many similar albums as they did here, sellers usually use the same format for all the listings. Since most of this treasure trove was “sealed” that word appears in the listings. The three Monk lps listed were not sealed but “new” for all practical purposes because they are unplayed. As previously noted Riversides did not come “sealed”.
The gentleman confirmed the white label and deep grooves. Euclid offers a 14 day return policy. Although I am usually skeptical about “un-played” albums, a quick glance at the other listings they had (Musings of Miles–Prestige, for example was clearly still sealed) satisfied my initial doubt.
As a side note I think Monk albums in general are undervalued. These white label Riversides are nice and thick with high quality laminated covers. This particular album is tough to find without ringwear on the front cover. I’m thrilled to have a “new” copy…
The question is would you play it???
To prove that luck excists:
I found recently The Unique T.M.RLP 12-209 white label in Near Mint condition for 75 euro(ca100 dollar) in a Rotterdam second hand record shop(Vinylspot)
I would play it.
Terry – Yes! That’s the point, isn’t it?!? Enjoy, it’s an awesome record.
since it was not sealed they should have shown a photo of the label.
terry:
you gotta play it! be careful of course, but you MUST play it! such an opportunity!
there is only one reason not to play the record, and that is money.
If you don’t care about the money but more about the music or thrill of playing a mint copy you should ALWAYS play it.
If you collect like we do, 1st original pressings, and not play your records, just put them on the shelf, and have a another, later pressing play copy or something. You gotta be nuts, right? The whole point in purchasing a NM copy is to play it, and enjoy the sound of an almost new record from the 50’s. That’s the thrill..
Fredrik, i think you are right IF you really have a NM copy that sounds good. I have however some not NM original copies that are not so fun to play and second/later pressings sound just as good or better. Then I tend to play those more.
I also like it to be a bit “special” when I play an early BN original. I like to sit down and give my full attention on those occasions and not be round and about the apartment making dinner or something. Then I can play a less expensive copy.
That said I love to play originals and if I buy sealed records I alway open to play them. Otherwise what is the point.
I would also like to add that I think many of us are a bit too obsessed about just caring for 1st pressings. 2nd and third can sound practically as good. You just have to try them out.
Shaft: yep, obsessive is the word.
I only care for 1st pressings, 2nd pressings are not worth that much to me. If it’s a second pressing the magic is not that profound, and if I would settle for that, in many cases (scary thought), I feel that the thrill would be gone and I could just as well buy even later pressings, still originals. The problem is also that 2nd pressings are selling for quite hefty prices so I think it’s worth the money to go for the 1st pressings. But that’s me… when I get into something I become obsessive. But what a wonderful obsession it is.
The Unique will be going on the turntable tonight. I bought a special bottle and a very fine cigar to “celebrate” the occasion. I personally, play all my records. My only rule is that if I’ve had a cocktail or two, I never play anything real expensive out of fear of an accident…lol.
that’s a good rule. i dropped a metal object directly on my otherwise mint copy of a very rare album about a year ago. it is still ok, but you can hear clicks. :sigh:
By the way, the vinyl itself does appear legitimately unplayed. The surfaces are immaculate, with mirror like reflection. The lp is devoid of any marks whatsoever and no fingerprints. The cover did have a little edge wear but overall it would be impossible to upgrade this vinyl.
Yeah that can maybe be a dilemma with alcohol but I just deliberately move a bit slower and more careful after a couple of beers. So far so good!
Terry – there is no more luminous shine than that of virgin vintage vinyl! Congrats – what a treat.
if anybody cares, I saw that Jaspar reissue in the bins over the weekend. It is kind of cheap-looking, no replica flipback sleeve – printing is kind of bad. I would not pay $30 or whatever it was priced at. New vinyl reissues can be something of a drag.
clifford: i still see new, sealed OJC pressings for 12$: not a bad price for an album in any format, but obnoxious considering that at least a blue-label prestige is about that much used.
Hey Fredrik
Please put up another one of your videos. I love them!
Great fun.
John
$12 OJC reissues are fine. They sound great. My problem is with the pricier reissues that are poorer quality, bad MP3s pressed onto heavy vinyl in even heavier inner sleeves that scuff the records, and thin cheap covers. I know not every label can be Triple Point or Three Lobed but come on…
we may disagree about their sound quality, but i’m not buying a copy of “blue haze” from OJC when i can get it on a blue trident label used for $6-8. that’s all i’m saying.
Clifford, you probably saw an earlier and inferior reprint from Fresh Sound or another label. The recently released replica of the Jaspar LP is produced by SAM RECORDS in Paris who have done a superior reproduction job on a number of French rarities (Chet Baker, Prez, Barney Wilen). They use the original masters and high grade vinyl, the artwork shows top quality printing and colour definition and the famous flipback. Their releases often or perhaps always include an insert with a unique picture of the artist from the J-P Leloir archives. Definitely worth the money!
Rob: I totally agree that the Sam records reissues are very high quality!!
John: glad you like the videos! I hope someone else of the readers here would do the same and start a YouTube channel and show their pieces. To get a face behind the name is also great and more personal. Stay tuned. Cheers!
This was definitely not a SAM version, if it’s like what you describe. It was sealed and with “new releases.”
Fredrik – I’ll second the videos. Great stuff. Amazing what you’ve come across.
Fredrik, I didn’t even realize you had videos! When Al shared his giant score video I left a river of drool on my desk, and now I get to leave one every time you post a video! I watched your “informal jazz” video. That’s one of my most wanted. very jealous!
I’ve been thinking of starting a blog to document my collecting philosophy: spend little, buy often, cover condition is less important than vinyl condition. I’ve amassed a nice collection that didn’t break the bank using this philosophy, and i would love to be the drool-causer as opposed to the drool-leaver.
GST: I’m happy that you enjoy the videos. Stay tuned, and please subscribe or leave comments if you’d like. Cheers!
Gregory the Fish: Thx for watching! I’d love to follow you if you decide to create a blog. The more channels/blogs/sites that our community shares, the better. There are not that many high-end jazz vinyl collectors that show their collections or write about it. I’m hoping that others show their rare pieces as well, especially on a YouTube channel. Keep watching! Cheers!
I’m following this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEXTER-GORDON-BLOWS-HOT-and-COOL-LP-feat-CARL-PERKINS-DOOTONE-1955-Modern-Jazz/161411993931?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D25223%26meid%3D30122bca852942b1bcee9ddfa1a3d4f5%26pid%3D100033%26prg%3D10631%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D161411993931
I opened my SEALED Early Miles, Red cover, I didnt expect Black and yellow label,but i did expect a inner sleeve and not to find lots of marks and finger prints on both sides of vinyl.Sleeve mint by the way. Win some lose some as they say.