Jazz Vinyl on eBay: KD for the $1,000 Bin & 2 More
Here’s some more jazz vinyl we’ve been watching on eBay:
Kenny Dorham, Afro-Cuban, Blue Note 1535. This was an original Lexington Avenue pressing with the deep grooves and flat edge. It was in M- condition for the vinyl and VG++ for the cover. It sold for $1,727.
Here’s one we’ve never seen before: Freddie Redd, Session in Stockholm, Nixja Records NJL 14. This one looked to be in VG+ condition for the record and VG++ for the cover. It sold for $531. I always find it thrilling that I’ve been collecting jazz records for more than 40 years and I still come across records I’ve never seen nor heard of. I bet this is a great one, too.
We don’t usually track records that sell for $22, but we were watching this one because it’s symbolic of something: A great record, great cover, great label, great condition, but no real interest from a collectible standpoint, at least not anymore:
The Lionel Hampton, Art Tatum, Buddy Rich Trio, Clef 727. This was in M- condition for the record and the cover and it sold for $21.99. For some reason it seems a shame that a record like this doesn’t draw more interest, but I guess these artists just don’t grab anyone’s interest anymore. Perhaps if the record were on Blue Note instead?
About the Lionel Hampton, Art Tatum, Buddy Rich Trio, Clef 727 and the mere 21 bucks it harvested: information like this cuts down the field for guys like me. I mean, I spent years collecting seventies funk on vinyl, but I never focused on jazz and simply bought it on CD (my guest column is still in the making, Al 😉 ) But since I have spent quite a few bucks on the ‘usual’ original 1st pressings here and there, it is good to know that such a great album featuring such big names changes owners for less than 25 bucks: ’cause this bit of info tells me that if I focus more on the less obvious, I might obtain quite an impressive stack of original 1st pressings without being bent over the table! 😉
Mattyman
I wish I would have seen that Hamp record, I would have bid higher. I notice that the “Modern Jazz” records have higher demand than records from Swing era. I can understand this, as I prefer it as well but I always found the small groups of Benny Goodman, and the people associated with them(I.e. Hampton) to be ahead of there time. When I was growing up my grandmother had a lot of Benny Goodman records and as a kid I loved the vibes. They were my favorite instrument and always preferred to listen to Benny goodman small ensembles over most other records she had. Never heard this one, but I’d always recommend any M- original pressing on clef with names like that. Amazed it went for that.
Key words/terms like “dsm”,”Clef” “Norgran” will turn up lots of goodies under the records heading.Lionel Hampton alone was on so many of those 50’s swing sessions,you’ll find much to bid on!
Nixa was a British label which made a lot of money with Chris Barber’s recordings. The trad fad in the U.K. in the fifties was a particular pnenomenon.
Nixa had a licencing agreement with Swedish Metronome. I found the following in my collection:
NJL 5 – Transatlantic Wail, Cecil Payne qnt
NJL 14 – Session in Stockholm as per recent auction.
NJL 19 – Freddie Redd groups.
I have the following indigenous crop:
NJL 4 – Tenorama U.K. tenors Kenny Graham, Don Rendell, Jimmy Skidmore, Roy Sidwell. 8 tracks from 4 1956 sessions.
NJL 7 – Don Rendell
Very collectible stuff. Laminated soft flip over covers.
Al: I kept on to my collection of Clef, JATP, Norgran albums with DSM covers, but I never play them, with the exception of the Modern Jazz Society, the Getz albums, the Bud Powells, Modern Jazz Sextet, the Farlows and the Johnny Hodges albums.
They are so nice to look at and ideal for framing, but I should have sold my Krupas, Bellsons, Riches, Arie Shaws etc. a long time ago.
As the Stockholm auction was closing, those coincidences that convince me there is a parallel universe, a copy of “Freddie Redd in Sweden” on Lone Hill Jazz LHJ10299 CD landed on my doormat ordered from Amazon. Contains the entire “Session in Stockholm” plus six bonus tracks all recorded 1955-6.
Not vinyl, however $8, not £500.
Its one of those rare occasions the evil silver disc can be forgiven.
After reading this post and the Moody post, I got to thinking about some of the most underrated, undervalued and/or unappreciated records. My number one choice is Heavy Love by Al Cohn and Jimmy Rowles on Xanadu. How about a top ten? Mine would include some of Moody’s Argos, Bags’ Atlantics, Stitt on Muse, and just about any great record that had the misfortune not to be made in the 50s or 60s.
Rudolf — No Tatums on your turntable? Or Prez? Or DeFranco? Personally, I love the Shaws with Tal Farlow.
Bill — I’ve always felt Bill Evans Trio ’64 was as good as any of the Riversides — in fact, as good as any Evans LP — and that it was undervalued and/or underappreciated, usually selling for $30. Some of the Dexter Gordons on Prestige — The Panther, for example, and More Power With James Moody, are as good as any of the Blue Notes, but not nearly as highly prized. And the Monk Columbias, particularly Criss Cross, don’t have nearly the cachet of the Riversides. It’s a good topic to think about. I may do a post or, better yet, here’s an invitation for someone to start the discussion with a guest post. If you’re interested send me the post in an email and I’ll put it on the site: al(at)jazzcollector.com
Rudolf – how do you frame your records? Pre-made frames or do you have somebody do it. I’ve had a local frame maker make them for me and it was pricey and they made it very hard to take the cover out if I would want to.
Mike: I said good for framing, but actually I never framed them so far.
So, really, I would not know how to do it.
Al: that is correct,no Tatums on my turntable. I have some ten albums of or with Tatum, but never felt like playing them, strange as it may look like. The moment may come though. Ditto for Artie Shaw.
Pres, yes, I like him a lot and I play him occasionally.
Buddy de Franco, I don’t like his sound. In that clarinet style I prefer Tony Scott. My absolute clarinet sound though is Jimmy Giuffre’s. I play him a lot.
Al, i agree with you. I’ve never really understood why some records are completely overlooked : for instance the Monks on Columbia, or some others like Lee Konitz on Atlantic. The Trio, or the Don Friedman on Riverside, another example.
Al/Michel: let me try to find some reasons.
Monk on Columbia: collectors don’t like the big labels. Many copies were printed, so they are not rare, so less collectible.
Konitz: he is not a honker, no pertinent blues man, and he is cerebral. I prefer one Konitz to five Hendersons, Lloyds, you name them. My Konitz albums on Storyville, Vogue, Verve, Atlantic and Pacific Jazz are amongst the absolute favourites. But are there many people like me (and you)? Apparently not.
Don Friedman emerged when his recording label, Riverside, was sinking. Bad luck he had indeed.
at least we are three.
four but henderson and lloyd are great artists too.
Did anyone track the auction for J.R. Monterose’s BN1536 with all the right details? It harvested 768 bucks! I considered this beauty one for the 1,000 dollar bin since the KD, BN1535 went for 1,727. Maybe the usual big bidders weren’t paying attention?
Mattyman
re low prices: a bull’s eye mono NM original 1st pressing of Charles Mingus’ Blues and Roots on Atlantic did not fetch more than a lousy 29 dollars the other day!
I did track the J.R. Monterose and I didn’t think it was a first pressing. Did the person specify “flat lip/edge”? I read it a few times and didn’t see anything one way or the other. That’s one I’m missing, but didn’t want to take any chances and am hesitant to bid with vendors I haven’t bought from before and omit details that make it clear whether it is a first or not. I have a classic records repress of this one and it’s great music.
http://cgi.ebay.com/BLUE-NOTE-1536-J-R-MONTEROSE-LEXINGTON-1st-plays-ex-/120644310818?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item1c16f61722
this one is flat edge,99.00 $ and no bids yet
Weird… I don’t seem to be able to leave comments anymore…
Mike, here is the link to the J.R. Monterose that I was checking. Since my comments with links don’t get published for some weird reason, you just have to copy and paste the link and add “http://” to it.
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=370451731724&si=CZ7Mb232xRlGvFQp26roZkaljQk%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT
Mattyman, thats the one I was looking at too. There is no mention of “Flat Lip” or “Flat Edge” and the weird explanation of the deep groove kind of made me nervous. I use to bid on records like this in a gamble that the person auctioning didn’t know what they are doing but in this case I just was a little too suspicious. Also, if I was going to gamble I would hope to get it for a lower price than that in case it turned out to be a liberty pressing and I got burned.
The one Doctor Jazz posted looks pretty sweet, I’m curious to see what it fetches. I would think easily $1000+.
Well, Mike, I may not have a lot of original pressings, but I do have a few, all with the Lexington Ave address on both sides and on the back of the cover + the “ear” (actually the pretzel looking P from Plastylite) and the hand carved RVG in the dead wax and the deep groove pressed in the label. On one of my originals, the deep groove is not as deep on the b-side as it is on the a-side, but still: it’s the deep groove. And about the flat edge on the one you and I were tracking: it must have been a flat edger, ’cause Blue Note logo also does not carry the trademark “R” either. The one that dottorjazz shared with us has stained labels; the one we tracked had clean labels. And it fetched almost a 1,000 bucks. I’m still convinced that it was an original 1st pressing 😉
Mattyman
It may be, but the description of “…Lexington (Both sides) 1st press RVG and Ear in dead wax on both sides No R…” Doesn’t give you any information either way. It could be that they used a lexington label and pressed it later in the pre liberty error. Then we get into the semantics of whether this is an “first” or “original” pressing. Also if you look closely at the second picture it is not a kakubuchi frame. Also, the seller doesn’t specify “hand etched” RVG. I’m sure it’s a fine record, I just don’t want to shell out the major dough unless it’s a “first”.
P.S. I don’t want to open up the “first” vs “original” debate, I define first as having all of the aspects of the time it was pressed as opposed to “original” meaning just pre liberty.
Well, Mike, you got me thinking there. Indeed the seller doesn’t specify all of the details you mention. I guess I was assuming too much, too quickly, based on a, in hindsight, too short description and poor pictures. A classical example of “the wish is father to the thought” 😉 -Anyway, good to have had this conversation, Mike, learning something new everyday!
Mattyman
Sellers are generally cute. If you have a blue label UA reissue, mention the “Liberty” which UA used ruthlessly – the “Product of Liberty Records” logo on all jackets.
Look how many fail to mention when the ear is not present – a Liberty reissue using up old stock of NY labels – no ear but “NY labels!!”
Ebay-mutton dressed up as lamb is too common. I just returned my third mis-described record this year: photo’s of labels both side 1 and side 2 should be a minimum
You’re right, London Calling. That’s why it’s so good to have these conversations in the comment field. What you just said, what Mike said; all valuable stories. I’m glad that so far the few Blue Notes I did buy, thankfully, were true originals. 😉
Mattyman
Yea, that’s another reason why respected sellers get a premium. Most of the top sellers will accept a return in a certain number of days when not satisfied. I’ve bought records that looked NM, but when played were in terrible shape. Respected sellers will take the record back no questions asked, which makes it easier when paying high prices. But, I could see someone making the opposite argument. You rarely find deals when dealing with some of the top dealers, everybody tends to notice and have scrutinized the auctions. I guess it depends on risk tolerance.
This JR Monterose looks to be an original pressing.
Yea, I couldn’t see anything that would indicate otherwise and the seller was very clear. If this one plays better than it looks someone will get a steal. I’m expecting it to go for well over $500. I might bid cheap and hope to get lucky since I don’t have an original of this one, just the an aluminum disc of it.
Hey Mike, you just got me curious. You don’t have an original J.R. Monterose, but instead an aluminium disc?! I would like to read some more on that! An aluminium disc… Can you even play it?
Mattyman
Aluminum disc = CD ;-?
Ah the evil silver disc. Own up. Do Jazz Collectors buy cd’s?
They serve me well enough as a way of getting familiar with the music for just a few (‘ow you say) “dollars”, helping decide if I want to push the boat out on a big auction bid.
Sometimes owning the CD has saved me a fortune in deciding not to bid.
On a good digital streaming system (god forbid, not a “cd player”) there are times when a ripped CD FLAC file on my Linn Akurate streamer sounds as good as vinyl. Not as good as a 47W63rd mind you, but the equal of a King and better than a Liberty.
Or is it purist vinyl vinyl vinyl?
Ahaaaaaaaa… Now I get it. So we’re talking about CDs when we refer to “aluminium” discs 🙂
Well, in that case I can say that I own the J.R. Monterose, too. ‘Cause it has been re-released for the RVG series. And I’ll leave it at that for now, ’cause I’m still working on a guest column that I discussed with Al and to lift a tip of the veil: it involves Blue Notes and CDs. I just finished the photo page that will serve as a vehicle for my writing. Since I’m a busy man it might take a while before I’m done writing, but still: it’ll be worth reading my final prose 😉
Mattyman
I own tons of CDs. Probably about 1000 jazz CDs/sacds. Some are more modern recordings that aren’t on vinyl. Many are blue note/prestige/riverside discs that I don’t have on vinyl. I buy CDs for a few reasons listed in order of importance.
1.). Not available on vinyl
2.). Want to listen to but can’t afford vinyl.
3.). Wanted to try out this artist with only minimal investment.
CDs are great because they are cheap. Also, for better or worse most of the time I’m listening to music is on my computer at work. I sit at a desk most of the day, and listen to music while working. So it’s easy to rip a cd to a lossless format and play. I’d prefer to be sitting in front of my stereo but I need to make money somehow and it’s makes things very pleasant with music playing. I probably pay an average of $5 because I buy use and own tons of box sets(I.e. Complete xxx discography of yyy) which are nice for when sitting at work. I also rip some of my vinyl to computer so I can enjoy it at work. I love vinyl, but it can’t compete with the convenience of digital and collectible vinyl can’t compete with the price. Unfortunate but true, that’s why I have lots of both.