John Coltrane Autograph (And More) On Ebay
Oh, it’s a nice time on eBay when we get to watch auctions from both the Jazz Record Center and bobdjukic.
How much would you like a John Coltrane autograph? I know I would. This is from the Jazz Record Center: John Coltrane, Bags and Trane, Atlantic 1368. This is listed as an original mono pressing with the red and purple labels — although, for the live of me, I still can’t get the original Atlantics straight once they are past the black labels — but the key to this record is that it is signed by Coltrane, Milt Jackson and Hank Jones. The record and cover appear to be in about VG++ condition. The price is around $750 with more than two days to go. From the same auction is a Jazz at the Philharmonic program from 1956 with a bunch of cool autographs, including Dizzy Gillespie, Stan Getz, Connie Kay, Milt Jackson, Roy Eldridge and Flip Phillips. There’s one bidder for this one, so far, and the price is $100.
I was browsing through jazz vinyl eBay listings and saw the words “insanely rare” and figured the controversial (at least here at Jazz Collector) seller bobdjukic was back in action, and he is. This insanely rare record happens to actually be insanely rare, if rarity can be coupled with insanity: Jutta Hipp, New Faces, New Sounds From Germany, Blue Note 5056. This is the original 10-inch Blue Note that looks to be in VG++ condition for the record and the cover. The current price is $528 and there are still five days to go. Perhaps we’ll get an insanely rare price for this insanely rare record.
How Insanely insane!!I
He has gone from “mega-rare” to “giga-rare” for this one….http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOHN-LEE-HOOKER-SINGS-BLUES-PEARL-COVER-INSANELY-RARE-ORIG-1960-KING-MONO-LP-DG-/350547111800?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item519e3c6f78
Al – I use this link to help with Atlantic labels.
http://www.bsnpubs.com/atlantic/atlantic12001463.html
How INSANE…he actually states….
MONSTROUSLY RARE…. hahaha
I can offer a few more for his amazing descriptions,
Horrendously Rare, Colosally Rare, Preposterously rare, Incomprehensibly rare, Incogitably rare,
In-apprehensibly rare, Ineffable rare and last and very least….. F*@%ing Rare..
wow!
I like Bob’s technique for rubbing out the spindle lines on his LPs as demonstrated on his “Giga Rare” John Lee Hooker that BigBear has linked to above. The minor drawback is that it rubs out the text too. Also I think we have to assume that his ruler must be broken because he can only estimate that the seam splits are between four and six inches. Such microscopic measurements are difficult to calculate with the naked eye.
We are playing right into “Bobbyd’s junk” now as he leads us down that proverbial primrose path… This is exactly the kind of reaction he wants ! His strategy seems to blind us with all the sparkling word-play so we don’t notice the shortcomings of the LP itself.
The fact that he seems to be talking away all the attention away from that great autographed copy of Bags & Trane auctioned by The Jazz Record Center above is somewhat disturbing I think…
This is a great LP despite the apparent condition, and the fact that it is autographed on the front cover by the key personnel potentially makes this a great showpiece for display in ones office or music room. Even though Hank Jones has signed twice, with an additional signature on the back cover (Based on the date, a few years just before his passing) still make this one worth watching. I am always a little suspect of the Coltrane signatures on the market these days myself, especially ones that are heavy pressed as this one seems to be, especially on the “J” in John… The Milt looks spot on compared to others I’ve seen, but the Hank on the cover with the calligraphy fountain pen seems a little off…
Sadly, without photos or any
other forms of provenance it’s next to impossible (even for the professionals – aka Forensic Document Examiners) to say with any certainty if it is authentic. Beyond using handwriting comparisons and graphology, etc. it is still possible that even extreme signature variations can be real though …Case in point, I have many in person autographed LP’s, often signed after the show, and not always on a table or other stable surface… Some were signed after a set while the musicians hands are a bit shaky from playing, and while standing up, so they aren’t as clean or perfect as others… Just in case there is ever any doubt, I usually like to get a photo next to the artist as well. Often with me holding the autograph in my hand so there is proof it was actually signed by the artist…
Sadly, the chances of succeeding generations placing the same value on signed ephemera such as this piece are slim to non I suspect. Many of us have been lucky enough to breath the same air as the artists who made the records we collect and cherish, but once the world finds itself a few more generations removed, there may not be the same interest in these artists as there is at this point in time.
Similar to the way we may not place the same value on an early signed Jazz LP by the likes of say Mead Lux Lewis or Jelly Roll Morton now days when compared to what we might pay for a Miles or Coltrane from the 50’s and 60’s but I digress…
I was lucky enough (Thanks to Al) to pick up an original copy of Bags & Trane LP similar to the one above complete with some really great autographs (including John’s) about this time last year from a European seller, and for the most part it is definitely legit, but at the end of the day, one never really knows for sure with these things unless we were there first hand…
Although bobdjukic always has some really nice vinyl for sale, I don’t think I’d ever buy from him. He has good feedback, but like many have stated, he inflates the description of the item and garners high bids. I’m patient, I will wait to get a better deal elsewhere.
Yeah,what irks me(and a few others,I’d imagine)is the willful deception on the part of big bob. He obviously knows his stuff-as evidenced by the thorough and accurate description of the Jutta Hipp-yet will list a record with the”original authentic first pressing” claim which all knowledgeable collectors know not true,as shown in this listing for “Somethin Else”:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CANNONBALL-ADDERLEY-w-MILES-DAVIS-SOMETHIN-ELSE-ORIG-1958-BLUE-NOTE-MONO-LP-/160765802700?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item256e6378cc
“Why,Bob..why?”
That’s right, Ceedee. Somethin’ Else should have no “inc” and no “R” on the label. This one, however, does.
Oh, and one more thing: how about this seller offering the stereo pressing of Monk’s Criss Cross as a genuine mono one while the word “stereo” is all over this record. Check it here.
Mattyman: I followed these Oxbridge Galleries guys for a while and noticed that they have unrealistic prices in the “Buy it now” section for material indebatable condition.
Djukic’s “Somethin’ Else” is a salient example of giving false information. This being said, I find that, if you have a limited budget, the purchase of a second edition with Inc. and R, can be a good solution to own an authentic Blue Note for a reasonable price. Of course, our friend here will obtain an insanely high price for a second pressing.
The Oxxbridge Galleries seller was new to me. That Monk mono thing while it’s an obvious stereo pressing is just dumb.
On the other hand I do agree with you that if a good Blue Note from the pre-Liberty era is available for a price that’s much, much lower than what you’d pay for a true 1st pressing, then I, too, don’t mind buying that one. pre-Liberty is still as original Blue Note as it gets 😉
I’ve been reading the various comments about Fred’s auction, which got crazy high prices for the Charlie’s (good for him, they looked wonderful), and Bob’s current auction. All I can say is that I’ve worked with both of these sellers over the past few years and have never had a bad experience with either of them … in fact, to the contrary, I have enjoyed getting to know them and have learned from both.
Yes, from time to time Bob doesn’t get it quite right re: a first BN issue versus a later one, and the Cannonball is a case in point, but when I pointed this out to him yesterday he was quick to do his research and get back to me with a confirmation that yes indeed, this issue likely wasn’t a first. Perhaps Bob should get a hold of Fred’s book for the BN background, I have found it to be a invaluable guide for me when buying old BN records and would love it if Fred could do a similar book for some of the other more popular labels — such as Prestige, Columbia, Atlantic and others.
@ Elbee-Jazzyme: as far as I can tell nobody criticized Fred Cohen here, only Bob was the ‘victim’ this time 😉 Bob usually is the centre of attention because of his use of superlatives like ‘ultra rare’, ‘insanely rare’ and more of that, when in some cases it happens that his vinyls aren’t exactly 1st pressings while he still has this remark: “THIS IS THE ORIGINAL, AUTHENTIC, FIRST U.S. PRESSING; THIS IS NOT A REISSUE, AN IMPORT, OR A COUNTERFEIT PRESSING.” in his item description. Referring to the Adderley’s ‘Somethin’ Else’ as mentioned above, even a rookie collector like me knows that it’s not a ‘first U.S. pressing’, catch my drift? And by the way, Bob still hasn’t changed his description for the Adderley! 😉
Mattyman, I got ya … the tag-lines on the listings are fun, no question. Kind of like the way Robert Parker Jr. describes the wines that he tastes in his listings 🙂
I sent Bob an email on this particular Cannonball listing and the correction that was necessary, he was going to update the listing with my note so that folks would know whether or not it was a true first or a “mega rare second”. Pretty sure that he’ll do this.
And re: Fred, I have nothing but extremely high regard for him, always have – not just based on the integrity of his listings and the accuracy, but also for the guidance that he’s given me over the years as I’ve built up my own collection.
Appears somebody did call Bob out on the ‘Adderley Somethin’ Else’…He gave the following reply. I have an original copy with no ‘R’. And, I’m pretty sure that makes it an original first, but I’m a newbie. Bob’s reply:
‘ I checked my database of images (13 years worth of images) and found about 15 of them. Of those, 9 were mono, 6 stereo; of the 15, only six were original (63rd street) pressings with deep groove (which must, by definition, have “ear” in them). Not one lacked (R)egostered trademark symbol. I then went to popsike.com and did a little research, but my search was hindered either by the poor quality of the images, or by the lack of them (popsike will archive only one of the seller’s images, not all) or by poor descriptions (not many sellers will care to list the “R” information). The “R” disappeared from the Blue Note labels at some point in late 1958 or 1959, which means that, technically, you should be right: there SHOULD be NO “R” on the label. Whether this is actually the case with this particular title, I have to be honest with you, I am not sure. If this is of paramount significance for you, may I recommend that you pass on this copy, However, in every respect (“Ear” stamp, deep groove, address on the label, RVG machine stamp), this very much both looks and “feels” like a very first pressing. Thank you for your interest in our auctions and kind regards Bob Djukic.’
@ Elbee-Jazzyme: you’re right about Fred. When his Blue Note book came out I called him at the Jazz Record Center to buy it. We had a lovely conversation and I asked him to sign the book for me. When I finally received it by mail it turned out that he’d written an extensive dedication as well, which was an unexpected but nice surprise.
@ Cazoon: since my funds are limited, first pressings are most of the time too expensive. So a later pressing (but still pre-Liberty) is usually the best solution to own the record. In this case however it’s clear from Fred’s book that the 1st pressing of Somethin’ Else does not have the “R”. Call it nitpicking, but in his answer to you, Bob also makes a mistake, where he says, quote “The “R” disappeared from the Blue Note labels at some point in late 1958 or 1959…” but that is just not correct. Initially, the trademark was nowhere to be found on the BN labels. The “R” appeared on the labels later, not disappear, and the last release with no “inc” and no “R” was 4016. As a rookie I may not have the experience and knowledge that the older cats here obviously do have, but personally I think that if you advertise a record as an absolute 1st pressing when it obviously is not, that it’s just not right. And it may result in price hikes for later pressings as well; something I’m not too happy about. Last but not least I don’t dig Bob’s remark that his Adderley “feels” like a very first pressing. It’s like saying my Datsun “feels” like a Jaguar. It’s still a Datsun! 😉
Bob is listing ebay item 160765808872 as an original 1961 BN Stereo LP. But when I pointed out to him that it could not be original because it does not have the Plastylite P (or Ear) in the runout groove he chose not to correct his listing. This is obviously misleading and downright dishonest.