Leapin’, Lopin’ and Lunacy
After last week’s diversion, I see I am being prodded to get back to the regular business of tracking the market for rare jazz vinyl, and so I will start with a note and link from our friend Clifford, subject: Sonny Clark WTF. Clifford writes, “Hey, Al. Here’s one for the ages (maybe). I’d gladly let my copy go for just $5000!” And the link is Sonny Clark, Leapin’ and Lopin’, Blue Note 4091. This was an original mono pressing with the New York USA address. The record and the cover were in just VG+ condition. The final price was $7,300. As Clifford so eloquently put it: WTF! There were 21 bidders and 44 bids and the price went from a reasonable $563 to a ridiculous $7,300 in the last moments. I would guess that two bidders both had a strategy of putting in humongous bids just to assure that they would get the record and, voila, they ran up against one another. How else could we explain a VG+ copy of this record selling for that price?Another prodder pointed out that there is a promo copy of Tommy Flanagan Overseas, Prestige 7134, currently for sale on eBay, with five days left on the auction. This one is in M- condition for the record and EX+ for the cover. The bidding is in the $1,600 range and we would expect it to sell for quite a bit higher. Maybe not $7,300, or maybe those same two bidders for the Sonny Clark would like to take their chances with Tommy Flanagan?
As you all know from last week’s story, I get notes from people all over the world looking for advice on how and where to sell their jazz collectibles, including records, autographs and other ephemera. Usually there are details to go along with these emails, and then again there are notes such as this one that came in yesterday: “How do you go about selling vintage albums?” Pretty broad and pretty general, right? This was my reply:
“If you want to maximize the value, you set up a selling account on eBay and sell them there. The account is not complicated to set up or manage. The key is to be accurate in your listings and take very good pictures. You will have to be prepared to ship your records all over the world and deal with the vagaries of eBay, which can include dealing with returns, unhappy customers, etc., etc. I speak with a lot of people who don’t have the time, interest or affinity to undertake that kind of effort. The alternative is to sell the entire collection to a dealer or another collector, but you will only get a portion of their retail value. — al”
Anyone have any additional advice for our concise inquisitor?
$7,300! Holy crap!
I’d love to be able to buy the original copies of jazz albums. Not only because I love jazz and would love to own the original copies, but also, if I had the original in my hands, I’d be holding a copy that existed when all of those musicians were still alive. That’s an obvious point I know. But some people just don’t get it. Mrs Jazzhead doesn’t anyway.
Anyway, as I can’t afford to buy original copies, I buy what I can on cd, downloads too, which I end up buying on cd. Don’t tut! 🙂 Anyway, I recently bought a £13 Blue Note box set of 5 Jackie McLean albums as I didn’t have 2 of the albums included. They aren’t originals, how could they be, they’re on cd, idiot! But the music!!!
Regarding the question about selling vintage albums: Depending on the perceived value, finding a seller who sells on consignment can be a good way to go. I’ve sold on consignment for people when I thought it worth my time & effort. It usually works out better financially for the owner, and I get to sell some great LP’s that I otherwise might not get a chance to.
I think it is rare (IMHO) to see a collection that has the volume of quality collectibles of Debby’s or the Baltimore one. So I think the appropriate advice really requires an understanding of what is in there. Most people have an inflated sense of the value of the common records (like Debby and her Pablos) and it is hard to convince them otherwise. Personally, I would auction off the high-value ones, Discogs the middle of the pack for the $20-75 ones, and sell the rest to a local record store for $2 each. If you don’t have a local record store who wants them, put it on Craigslist for a flat $X00 take it all. Someone will show up. Worst case, take the tax write-off and donate them to Goodwill . For me that is the most efficient path for the 1-time seller.
This crappy Sonny Clark sold (if really sold) almost at one quarter (1/3,83561644 to be precise) of the total (supposed) price of the entire Debbie’s collection. Hope she does not follow ebay auctions. Or she actually sold for way much more than she declare.
My advice to sellers: If you live in a major metropolitan area, post an ad for 20ish specific records on a free buy and sell website (Craigslist or Kijiji, for example). Include details and descriptions for each record, price each record reasonably, and be willing to give discounts to buyers who want more than one. You won’t get top top dollar by any stretch, and you might have some hassle, but you won’t have the full slate of ebay headaches, nor will you have to settle for pennies on the dollar as you would selling a large collection bulk. And you can meet some interesting people!
When you’ve sold a bunch of them, post another ad. Results will vary.
Does anyone know the seller of the sonny Clark? Would love to know if this transaction goes through or not. This one just boggles my mind…
I really like that Sonny Clark record a lot, but feel like my $80 was well-spent. Can’t imagine paying much more for a copy.
For what it’s worth, I have the inside scoop that the high bidder put in an “extra zero” and this item will likely get relisted. Of course, popsike, gripsweat, and other aggregators won’t tell the real story and a new record price is set.
Thanks Clifford for the scoop/clarification! I can sleep easier tonight haha
I’m hardly convinced by the “accidental extra zero” explanation. You need 2 bidders having the same accident on the same auction for this to happen. $7.3k winning bid, means there’s another bidder with another bid above $7k. Seems more a little more fishy than that!
we were freaking out about this on Instagram as some of you know.
i don’t care what people pay for records that i didn’t buy. it seems crazy, but i’m doing just fine over here.
I had this same insane bidding war on a couple of different auctions and the sales NEVER went through.
I think the winning bidder put in either an extra zero or he just put in a ridiculous amount thinking it would only go up another hundred or so. When the second bidder, using the same logic, put in a bid of $2600 and was automatically outbid by 1***1 it looks like he just kept going up the ladder $3200, $3600, $4500, etc. for grins just to see what 1***1’s top bid was. If he actually overbid the top number he could always cancel that bid.
When the sale doesn’t go through and the seller offers it to the second highest bidder and he, unless he’s absolutely unencumbered with any critical thinking skills, turns down the opportunity to buy at that price the seller could offer it to the third highest bidder which was only $563.
This is just my theory but both bidders have feedback scores over 1300 so they can’t be this crazy..could they?
Clifford, I didn’t carefully read your comment that you had an inside scoop that the bidder put in an extra zero until after I posted my novel:)
Thank you, my OCD brain would’ve been chewing on this for the rest of the day!
Two things: 1.) Did everyone miss this recent eBay sale? A really gorgeous looking Jackie McLean Ad Lib for $6,500 – a lot of money, but that’s a fair price for a true grail (and one that’s a sample/promo copy to boot!) – https://www.ebay.com/itm/JACKIE-MCLEAN-THE-NEW-TRADITION-AD-RIB-FIRST-PRESS-SAMPLE-COPY/192632284549?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648 and 2.) gregorythefish – where on Instagram are all you guys located?… Thanks! x c
@Thomas — totally understand where you’re coming from on this. It could also be very possible that they bid-topped with something like 10Gs and didn’t think someone would call their bluff. Either way, pretty dumb.
welp, apparently it was paid for. Wow.
Wow! Well… someone really, really, REALLY wanted that record!
Thanks for the intel, @Clifford!
In principle, I’m not shocked bidders would be willing to spend big bucks for a really rare collectible. After all, people pay much more money for lithographs, drawings, or photographs. Just strange it would be for this particular record— which could, up to very recently be bought for around or under $500, and pops up every other week on eBay.
????
Followed by ????
Tim – I totally agree. a friend of mine consigned his 1568 for me to sell for him cause I have more history selling Jazz LPs. We got $5000 for it so he was quite happy!
Caroline there are a bunch of us on Instagram sharing our collections (or cats in Clifford’s case 🙂
I’m at gstvinyl. Are you on there?
Caroline: I’m jazz_peasant
my cat > NJ 8217
@GST That is a great stack of records! I’ve not heard anything by the Horace Tapscott Quintet. Just put The Giant is Awakened on Spotify. Man! Another album I’m going to have to buy!
For those with more serious collections of original pressings in excellent condition we have a Facebook group called Jazz Record Collectors. No reissues, Japanese or audiophile pressings allowed and nothing in lackluster condition. We share photos of our lp’s and discuss pressing details, etc. Numerous visitors to this site are already members and can vouch for the quality of the group.
It still can be done….. just back from N.Y. C. & Brooklyn. Man it was hot and humid but still a crate diggers paradise ! Bought 20 records 10”& 12” spent $76.00. All are original and condition would be vg+. I know you folks are in another league , but no matter the price it STILL is about the music in those grooves. Pop, hiss,and click…..
Thanks jazzhead. That Tapscott is indeed a good one!
I remember buying “Leapin’…” 1st press w/ a “P” in conservatively vg++/vg++ at a record show in ’05. I paid $225, and, I believe, at that time it was by far the most I had ever paid for a record. I still love to listen to it, but I remember feeling like I was an idiot for paying that kind of money for record. I’d be willing to sell it, however, for a deep discount off the most recent auction price of only US$4000 for any takers because there are bider idiots that me.
Yes, fully agree it’s a stupid price to pay, but what a fine album it is.
art,
that’s awesome! what sort of things are they?
Caroline: I’m intosomethin on Instagram.
Gregory, the best of the batch as far as jazz collector is concerned would be Jazz Eyes. A fantastic John Jenkins date on Regent ! Also the Zoot Sims date where he plays alto,tenor and baritone with George Handy arrangements. For me I was lucky to find the Urbie Green east coast jazz date on Bethlehem . This one was a upgrade for me. I love Al Cohn on bass clairinet in 1955 !
@ Art – All great finds! I love that Jenkins Jazz Eyes on Regent – fantastic music and a fantastic cover. Keep on diggin’
Nice Art! Jazz Eyes is a great find!
jazz eyes is indeed a great find. my copy is just a micron below where i’d like it to be, condition-wise.
the others sound great too. i have a weakness for bass clarinet. i’d love to hear a traditionalist like cohn play one! that’s going on the want list. does he solo on it?
Gregory, Al does indeed solo on bass clarinet, as you can imagine his sound is pure Al. By the way I bought a tee shirt that has printed on iti “ Record collecting has ruined my life “ I’m pretty sure the wife and I will take turns wearing it !!!
I want to hear our Al play bass clarinet…
To close the loop on the Sonny Clark, I suppose: looks like it went through indeed, saw that the buyer left positive feedback on it. I don’t know if I still want to live on this planet.
A similar case of two end bidders. I watçhed a Tubby Hayes album on Tempo. (TAP -6).
After fierce bidding the price was around 1800 pound sterling just before closing. Two bidders apparently had put a snipe and the item went for 6000 quid.
The lesson is simple, if one puts a ridiculously high amount to beat everyone, somebody else may have the same idea.
Rudolf – it will be interesting to see if that Tubby Hayes sale completes. I have my doubts, as it’s about £4400 more than the previous high for that LP.
It looked nice, but that seller uses the same hyperbolic template for all listings.
Richard, that is most likely. Let’s follow.
Pingback: Rare Blue Notes in All Shapes, Sizes and Formats | jazzcollector.com