Lou, Red, Mr. PC and Everything is Beautiful
Just a sittin’ here watchin’ some rare jazz vinyl on eBay. Let’s start with Lou Donaldson, New Faces, New Sounds, Blue Note 5021. This is an original Lexington Avenue pressing. I had this record once, but I don’t have it anymore because I sold it 30 years ago. It’s an old familiar refrain that involves a sunken boat. In any case, I spotted this copy on eBay because the seller’s listing said “BEAUTIFUL COPY” in ALL CAPS and it caught my eye. But the listing has the vinyl in VG or VG+ condition and the cover n VG+. BEAUTIFUL COPY, as always, is in the eye of the beholder. The auction closes in five days and the opening bid price is $200, with no takers so far.
If anyone missed the $1,375 copy of this record, here’s another chance: Red Garland, A Garland of Red, Prestige 7064. This is an original New York yellow label pressing that is listed in VG+ condition for both the record and the cover, although it is beyond me why the seller would list that cover in VG+ condition. The reason I say it is beyond me is because I think it would be much more effective to grade the cover accurately based on the pictures, which would be VG at best. With an honest grading of the cover, I, as a potential buyer, would be more inclined to just the rest of the listing. As it is, I am not a potential buyer because I have a clean copy of this record. But you get the gist – we can all see the picture and if this is considered VG+, what does that say about the grading of the vinyl?
Paul Chambers Quintet with Donald Byrd, Cliff Jordan, Tommy Flanagan, Elvin Jones, Blue Note 1564. This looks to be an original West 63rd Street deep groove pressing. The record is listed in VG+ condition and the cover is listed in VG+ condition and the cover looks to be in at least VG+ condition, just so you know I’m not randomly picking on the previous seller’s listing. This one closes in a bout a day and the bidding is in the $330 range, but I’m sure no one would be surprised to see this one in the $1,000 bin, especially with 100 watchers and 13 bidders as of this writing.
I take that on the Lou that side 1 is VG and side 2 VG+
2 grand for that Chambers..
Excellent point about the advantages a seller has when they give an accurate grade to the cover. I’ve declined to bid on many an lp over the years because of an inaccurate cover grade. My grade would have been “G/G- Jacket has considerable wear, creases, stains and writing on back. Please see scans.”
I’m in St. Louis, home of Vintage Vinyl, the seller on that Chambers. A couple weeks ago, my buddy told me he was in the store when someone came in with a stack of Blue Note 1500s. He witnessed as the buyer paid chump change (I think he said in the neighborhood of $3 each) and then told me to keep an eye on eBay. I suspect that the Chambers, as well as some other 1500s currently listed and recently sold, are from that batch.
I don’t know how I feel. Is it “shame on Vintage Vinyl”? Buyer beware? The luxury of owning your own brick-and-mortar shop where stuff walks in the door? It’s a big store with overhead and employees to pay; are they to be faulted if they can grab those at $3 a piece and make a killing? Am I just jealous (yes!)?
If you’re buying at $3 and selling at $2,000 that makes you a good businessman. Probably a good reason why greed is running this country.
A question to Japhy:
Have you dealt with Euclid Records in St. Louis? How are they to do business with vs Vintage Vinyl?
I blame the seller , if he/she has no way of checking out the web or phoning a few stores to check retail prices then I hope they are selling the Porsche also ,give me a call.
If I ran a store and that stuff walked in I would definitely be paying more than $3. It’s worth it to have people keep you in mind for leads on collections if you pay well. Completely dishonest to pay so low.
Word has gotten out that this shop pays a pittance for collectible records. How is that wise business?
I agree that the behavior of the store was, at the least, greedy. But what if you came across a bunch of 1500s at a garage sale with the widow selling her husband’s old records for $3. Don’t think you would just scoop them up and laugh all the way home? Just asking.
When a store pays a seller only $3.00 each for rare jazz lps, it’s dishonest, but it’s also stupid. Many collectors bring in parts of their collections in stages. If you pay well, he’ll keep coming back. If you don’t, he won’t, and the store loses out. I speak from personal experience as a seller. And buying lps at a garage sale and owing a store are completely different situations.
depends on the vibe/situation. there is the chance that if one told her she could get more, they wouldn’t be for sale anymore… but that’s her call to make. if she didn’t do the research on those “old records” and price them accordingly… or if she just wants ’em gone, then I guess it’s her prerogative.
@Steve Hinds, I go to Euclid (and Vintage Vinyl) only occasionally these days, as I don’t do a whole lot of retail buying anymore, and I rarely come away with much that makes it worth the trip (both shops put their best stuff right on ebay, obviously). But I have patronized both stores for 25 years.
Euclid has always specialized in Jazz, so I never really did find deals there, and definitely no steals. However, there was a time not more than a few years ago where regular trips to the Vintage bins could yield some nice, affordable scores, including Blue Notes. No longer. It’s like 65% new presses and 35% junk that’s been sitting there forever. Every once in a while you’ll see something like a Mel Brown on Impulse! or, like, a Houston Person on Prestige, and they want $20-$25. The thrill of the dig is gone.
Euclid is a 2-story shop where the upstairs houses what I’d describe as an impressive-sized selection of “OK” Jazz. They do offer up some of our beloved Blue Note and Prestige, but it’s mostly later pressings (e.g., blue- and green-label Prestige) or condition-issue stuff. The pricing, while on the high side to a seasoned veteran like me ;), is probably fair for something you’d stumble across in a retail shop these days.
Now, I also collect alternative, indie, and some rock, and Euclid has been pretty good to me over the years in that regard. I’ve found some obscure stuff for fair prices (though by and large little there is a “steal”). For example, I had a Robyn Hitchcock record on my want list for years, and one day there it was, for like $12. On the other hand, you can just as easily pick up some other record and shake your head at the price tag.
Overall, if you happen to find yourself in St. Louis, both shops are definitely worth visiting.
As a thought experiment, let’s just flip this situation on it’s head: imagine you go into a bricks and mortar shop and see a selection of highly collectible records in great shape on sale for well under the market rate. What would you do? Would you just grab them at the advertised prices or would you offer to pay a higher amount?
It’s tempting to say just grab ’em and run, isn’t it? But just think through the longer term implications for a moment. What if the shop goes out of business because it doesn’t make a margin at such low prices? Then where would you be for your local choice of venues to go record shopping?
Also, I see paying a fair price as an investment in a relationship that can bear more fruit in future. Back in the Spring I visited a record shop where they had kindly kept some records aside for me to inspect. Knowing which records they were in advance enabled me to go there with a clear idea of a fair price and I talked the folks at the shop through my reasoning and helped them with pricing some of the records I wasn’t interested in. I came away with six or seven nice records and a new relationship that means the shop knows what interests me and they’re likely to give me first refusal on relevant items when they come up. That should beneficial for me in the future.
Martin: I do that all the time. I see highly valuable records at the Brick and Mortar shops and I always tell them “you need to rethink the price on this one”. I found a Randy California record (that I already had) for $5 and I told the guy, “this record is in good shape and it’s not easy to find, you need to raise the price”. Conversely, one guy was selling “Introducing Carl Perkins” for $400, but it was a re-issued “Dootone” and I told him that he was way over pricing that record.
combining jazz record collecting with ethics and moral seems to me a tricky business…
JOK…. Gotta say, your morals are far higher and more admirable than mine. If I’m in that brick & mortar store and see that Randy California lp for $5, I buy it. And I don’t feel I’m doing anything unethical or improper in the process.
As there is some talk about the ethics of buying and selling records for low and high prices, a thing entered my mind that I now & then thought of lately: probably nearly everyone will agree that it is illegal to download music for free. In some countries you can get fined even (ore more). They say that is because the artist and the record company, the ones that put all their effort and money in it in the first place, should be rewarded financially. BUT, should it not be illegal in the same way to make a big profit on a record without sharing the profit with the artist or the company?
Or you can put the question the other way around….. if it is ok to sell a record for say 2000 that you bought ages ago for 20, is it not ok to share music for free with music lovers on the internet? no matter if it is music from 50 years ago, or music from 2021?
Interesting discussion.
Regarding the digital file download and LP buying/selling I don’t think they have much in common. When you own an LP or a CD you don’t own the music – only the right to listen to it in that way. Not sharing it to make copies. And LP’s don’t copy so well as you know
When it comes to unscrupulous sellers and buyers I prefer to to business with the good ones that actually tell sellers what the LP’s are worth and pay accordingly like 50% or maybe a bit more for high end titles. I think bad word goes around if stores trick their selling customers into selling for scraps. BAd Karma for sure.
On my occasional trips through St. Louis I’ve found Euclid to be a good place to make a stop, Vintage Vinyl not so much. St. Louis is a worthwhile stop. The art museum is fantastic and the City Museum downtown is like no other place on earth. Fun for kids.
To sell a valuable record to a record store for a flat fee is just asking to be taken advantage of. Consignment is the only sensible strategy for dealing with resellers, be it ebay or brick and mortar.