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	<title>
	Comments on: Patterns, Icons and Socks	</title>
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	<link>https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/patterns-icons-and-socks/</link>
	<description>For those who love jazz</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2021 19:43:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: PJ		</title>
		<link>https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/patterns-icons-and-socks/comment-page-1/#comment-456021</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2021 19:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jazzcollector.com/?p=8748#comment-456021</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Theyve been &quot;overpaying&quot; for 2 decades now. What has changed?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Theyve been &#8220;overpaying&#8221; for 2 decades now. What has changed?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Paul		</title>
		<link>https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/patterns-icons-and-socks/comment-page-1/#comment-456016</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2021 23:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jazzcollector.com/?p=8748#comment-456016</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[$5250 is indeed a lot of money for a second pressing of Cool Struttin.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$5250 is indeed a lot of money for a second pressing of Cool Struttin.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anders Wallinder (Shaft)		</title>
		<link>https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/patterns-icons-and-socks/comment-page-1/#comment-456003</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anders Wallinder (Shaft)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2021 07:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jazzcollector.com/?p=8748#comment-456003</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Fredrik! I can only concurr. Nice to read Fred&#039;s comments. Just to clarify for readers when Freda says &quot;Centers&quot; (to hold the stampers) this piece is also called a &quot;Die&quot; as per my comment in this thread.

As for the 4059. The only copy with Review Copy stamped to label and cover was the non-DG version. Fred takes this as an evidence of this non-DG version being a 1st press. 

IMO the most likely scenario for 4059 is that the pressing run started out with one DG - Die and one non-DG die. The in the middle of the pressing run the side 2 DG-Die broke and was replaced with a non-DG die. Of course it could be the other way around ie that the run started with two non-DG dies.  

Anyway when the pressed records came in those cardboard boxes to the warehouse in NY where they were put together with the covers (this was not done at the Plastylite plant) . An employee just grabbed a handful of records from the record boxes and the covers from another box I guess.  What that person grabbed was maybe the first or lasts pressed LPs in that run - who knows. Depends on the logistics and how many boxes of 4059 there were. Then took the records to the office and stamped them &quot;Review Copy&quot; and let them out for distribution to radio stations, critics etc. 

 PS If you want to see the picture of the warehouse with Lee Morgans sitting in front look at londonjazzcollector]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Fredrik! I can only concurr. Nice to read Fred&#8217;s comments. Just to clarify for readers when Freda says &#8220;Centers&#8221; (to hold the stampers) this piece is also called a &#8220;Die&#8221; as per my comment in this thread.</p>
<p>As for the 4059. The only copy with Review Copy stamped to label and cover was the non-DG version. Fred takes this as an evidence of this non-DG version being a 1st press. </p>
<p>IMO the most likely scenario for 4059 is that the pressing run started out with one DG &#8211; Die and one non-DG die. The in the middle of the pressing run the side 2 DG-Die broke and was replaced with a non-DG die. Of course it could be the other way around ie that the run started with two non-DG dies.  </p>
<p>Anyway when the pressed records came in those cardboard boxes to the warehouse in NY where they were put together with the covers (this was not done at the Plastylite plant) . An employee just grabbed a handful of records from the record boxes and the covers from another box I guess.  What that person grabbed was maybe the first or lasts pressed LPs in that run &#8211; who knows. Depends on the logistics and how many boxes of 4059 there were. Then took the records to the office and stamped them &#8220;Review Copy&#8221; and let them out for distribution to radio stations, critics etc. </p>
<p> PS If you want to see the picture of the warehouse with Lee Morgans sitting in front look at londonjazzcollector</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark		</title>
		<link>https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/patterns-icons-and-socks/comment-page-1/#comment-455998</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2021 22:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jazzcollector.com/?p=8748#comment-455998</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Over $5000 for a New York pressing of “cool struttin”.  To think I thought I was a bit crazy spending $500 on the exact same pressing in exact same archival condition a few years back.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over $5000 for a New York pressing of “cool struttin”.  To think I thought I was a bit crazy spending $500 on the exact same pressing in exact same archival condition a few years back.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Fredrik		</title>
		<link>https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/patterns-icons-and-socks/comment-page-1/#comment-455995</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fredrik]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2021 17:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jazzcollector.com/?p=8748#comment-455995</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[After 4059 it’s not clear if DG or not DG or a combination of the two is a 1st pressing. Fred Cohens confirms this. Either way, I still prefer a both sides DG copy, for example, if it says that in Cohens book for a specific title, instead of a non DG or one side DG. I try to follow his book for sure.

That said, up to this point, I’ve discovered a couple of errors on some titles, and Fred has confirmed this (one title differs on the DG question between the first edition of the book and the revised edition, and the cover address is not correct for another title) and that this will be fixed for a future edition.

I have warmed up somewhat to the possibility of not following the book regarding the DG or not dilemma for titles after BLP 4059 (as Cohen himself says; anything after 4059, DG or not, he considers original, as long as all other attributes that defines a 1st pressing is present) but it’s difficult. We’ll see how this goes...

Here’s Fred’s answer to me regarding my question if a specific title I was interested in had to be DG to be considered a 1st pressing:

“Starting with BLP 4059, released in May of 1961, pressing plants ordering replacement centers (see pp. 76-79 of my book) received them with no deep groove.  They probably didn’t notice.  It can only be assumed that the change in center design was a move to more economical pressings that required less (thinner) vinyl.
 
Here is where speculation comes into play:  if you are working in a pressing plant you will likely take a center off the shelf or box at random and secure the stamper on the press.  Your job is to press records, not check to see what the centers look like.  Maybe you will press 300 copies this week and next week you will press 300 more (of the same record).  Who knows which center was used for which pressing – deep-groove or non deep-groove? 
 
The answer to your question is this: we do not know which pressings came off the press first.  But if, as a collector, your interest is in having a record with all the details that define a first pressing, then the deep-groove pressing is the one for you.  As for me, anything after 4059 is “original” as long as all other details are correct.
 
I hope that provides clarity.
 
Fred”

Cheers!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After 4059 it’s not clear if DG or not DG or a combination of the two is a 1st pressing. Fred Cohens confirms this. Either way, I still prefer a both sides DG copy, for example, if it says that in Cohens book for a specific title, instead of a non DG or one side DG. I try to follow his book for sure.</p>
<p>That said, up to this point, I’ve discovered a couple of errors on some titles, and Fred has confirmed this (one title differs on the DG question between the first edition of the book and the revised edition, and the cover address is not correct for another title) and that this will be fixed for a future edition.</p>
<p>I have warmed up somewhat to the possibility of not following the book regarding the DG or not dilemma for titles after BLP 4059 (as Cohen himself says; anything after 4059, DG or not, he considers original, as long as all other attributes that defines a 1st pressing is present) but it’s difficult. We’ll see how this goes&#8230;</p>
<p>Here’s Fred’s answer to me regarding my question if a specific title I was interested in had to be DG to be considered a 1st pressing:</p>
<p>“Starting with BLP 4059, released in May of 1961, pressing plants ordering replacement centers (see pp. 76-79 of my book) received them with no deep groove.  They probably didn’t notice.  It can only be assumed that the change in center design was a move to more economical pressings that required less (thinner) vinyl.</p>
<p>Here is where speculation comes into play:  if you are working in a pressing plant you will likely take a center off the shelf or box at random and secure the stamper on the press.  Your job is to press records, not check to see what the centers look like.  Maybe you will press 300 copies this week and next week you will press 300 more (of the same record).  Who knows which center was used for which pressing – deep-groove or non deep-groove? </p>
<p>The answer to your question is this: we do not know which pressings came off the press first.  But if, as a collector, your interest is in having a record with all the details that define a first pressing, then the deep-groove pressing is the one for you.  As for me, anything after 4059 is “original” as long as all other details are correct.</p>
<p>I hope that provides clarity.</p>
<p>Fred”</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anders Wallinder (Shaft)		</title>
		<link>https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/patterns-icons-and-socks/comment-page-1/#comment-455991</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anders Wallinder (Shaft)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jun 2021 07:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jazzcollector.com/?p=8748#comment-455991</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Clifford, yes certainly for me too ;-) I&#039;m not a first pressing junkie. I have several Liberty/United era pressings that I like and play a lot. But I must admit that I find it interesting to understand the early BN releases. It also affects the pricing a lot to know what you are byinga nd paying for. I&#039;ve made some mistakes for sure....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clifford, yes certainly for me too 😉 I&#8217;m not a first pressing junkie. I have several Liberty/United era pressings that I like and play a lot. But I must admit that I find it interesting to understand the early BN releases. It also affects the pricing a lot to know what you are byinga nd paying for. I&#8217;ve made some mistakes for sure&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Clifford Allen		</title>
		<link>https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/patterns-icons-and-socks/comment-page-1/#comment-455983</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clifford Allen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2021 15:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jazzcollector.com/?p=8748#comment-455983</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As long as it has the Van Gelder and Plastylite logo it&#039;s good enough for me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as it has the Van Gelder and Plastylite logo it&#8217;s good enough for me.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anders Wallinder (Shaft)		</title>
		<link>https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/patterns-icons-and-socks/comment-page-1/#comment-455981</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anders Wallinder (Shaft)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2021 06:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jazzcollector.com/?p=8748#comment-455981</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hi guys! thanks for your kind words. I find the subject interesting and try to learn as much as I can. The more I think of it and learn this info about the dies makes more sense. There is some more info at: 

https://londonjazzcollector.wordpress.com/record-labels-guide/labelography-2/blue-note-deep-groove/ 

Deep grooves are and will always be more connected to OG and older records and I guess collectors will most likely see it as a plus factor when collecting and everything before a certain point in 1961 was indeed deep groove. The flat edge is another subject that is interesting and also the info that all 10&quot; 5000-series from the 50&#039;s are 1st pressings is also an interesting subject....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi guys! thanks for your kind words. I find the subject interesting and try to learn as much as I can. The more I think of it and learn this info about the dies makes more sense. There is some more info at: </p>
<p><a href="https://londonjazzcollector.wordpress.com/record-labels-guide/labelography-2/blue-note-deep-groove/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://londonjazzcollector.wordpress.com/record-labels-guide/labelography-2/blue-note-deep-groove/</a> </p>
<p>Deep grooves are and will always be more connected to OG and older records and I guess collectors will most likely see it as a plus factor when collecting and everything before a certain point in 1961 was indeed deep groove. The flat edge is another subject that is interesting and also the info that all 10&#8243; 5000-series from the 50&#8217;s are 1st pressings is also an interesting subject&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: DJ Pari		</title>
		<link>https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/patterns-icons-and-socks/comment-page-1/#comment-455977</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DJ Pari]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jazzcollector.com/?p=8748#comment-455977</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[But of course!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But of course!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Justin		</title>
		<link>https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/patterns-icons-and-socks/comment-page-1/#comment-455974</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://jazzcollector.com/?p=8748#comment-455974</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s crazy talk, DJ Pari. Everyone knows deep grooves make it sound better...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s crazy talk, DJ Pari. Everyone knows deep grooves make it sound better&#8230;</p>
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