Prestiges, Blue Notes and a Boyd
Where was I? Oh, yes, I had a watchlist on eBay that I haven’t looked at in two weeks. Let’s see what’s there. Phil Woods et al, Four Altos, Prestige 7116. This was an original New York yellow label pressing that was listed in VG++ condition for the record and VG++ for the cover, although I’d say VG+ for the cover. My feeling about cover gradings is if there is a seam split, then VG++ is a bit too optimistic. But that’s me. Anyway, this was a promotional copy and a pressing from a library, which always gives me pause because who knows how the record was handled all these years. This one sold for $451.99. Now the four alto players on this record are Woods, Gene Quill, Sahib Shihab and Hal Stein. And my question is this, for those of us, like me, who mostly organize records alphabetically by artist: Is there any collector out there who files this record under anyone else besides Phil Woods?
Of similar vintage but from a different seller: Phil Woods Septet, Pairing Off, Prestige 7046. This was also an original pressing but the condition was quite a bit less, VG for the record and VG or even VG- for the cover. The final price was $102.50. Not bad, all things considered (for the buyer, that is).
Introducing the Rocky Boyd Quintet, Ease It, Jazztime 001. This was an original pressing. The record was VG+ but the cover was only G, damaged quite badly. Still, the record sold for $850. Guess somebody had a nice cover and a trashed record. I’m in that position, only on the other side with True Blue. I have a decent record, but no cover at all (although I did stick it in a Japanese cover, but every time I look at it I know, deep down, that I’m only fooling myself).
Horace Silver and the Jazz Messengers, Blue Note 1518. This was an original Lexington Avenue pressing that looked to be in M- condition for the record and quite possibly M- for the cover. Not easy to find in that condition, as was reflected by the final price of $998.70. Another buck thirty and we’d be in the thousand dollar bin for this one.
This one was listed at $350 and didn’t sell and then resisted at $350 and didn’t sell again: Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers, Blue Note 4003. This was an original mono pressing with the West 63rd Street address. The record was listed in VG+ condition and the cover was listed as Ex-. Normally $350 would be a selling price for this record. However, on the back, in blue ink, Blakey had signed the record and dated it in looks like 1977. Is it possible the autograph actually diminishes the interest in the record for collectors? For me, I like having the autograph.
A little off-topic, but I noticed that the notes for the Four Altos lp was written by Ira Gitler. Gitler passed away less than two weeks ago on February 23. In the obituary I read (I think in the NYT) it mentioned that Gitler wrote the notes for more than 700 jazz albums and is credited with coining the term “sheets of sound” for Coltane’s playing.
I file mine under Phil Woods.
I really love that Phil Woods album cover.
I file mine under Prestige 7116, its UK Esquire issue under Esquire 32-074. With the label/catalogue number approach one never can go wrong. No arbitrary decisions.
Re the autograph on 4003, for me this is a very negative point. I’d prefer a clean rear slick to some empty phrase, ruining the sleeve.
Ira Gitler wrote a great many informative sleeve notes. Always a pleasure to have an album with Ira’s liners. One of the most memorable for me is Prestige 7038. He traces the influences on the tenor players of the day and through what filters they went to become what they were in that year 1956. I learnt a lot from his approach.
I’d file mine under Woods. I’m actually not a big fan of this album. Is it too much of a good thing? Perhaps.
woods’ name is first, moving top left to bottom right, so under woods it would go.
ira gitler wrote sleeve notes for charles mcpherson’s “The quintet/Live!” that are borderline offensive.
If I had to file the Four Altos under an artists’ name, it would be Teddy Charles. He is in charge, not Stein or Woods, nor Quill or Shihab.
If you notice for BLP 4003, the grading scale is manufactured and seems proprietary. Read the vendor’s description of his grading scale at the bottom of the listing. It is non-standard. In this case, I am not certain that the described VG+ is necessarily what someone else would consider a VG+.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ART-BLAKEY-AND-THE-JAZZ-MESSENGERS-BLUE-NOTE-4003-DG-West-63rd-SIGNED-BY-ART/254143993971?hash=item3b2c299873:g:uKMAAOSw19db~TgF
I would defiantly file the record under Stein….anything by him is a very good listen and any time you get a l.p. with him on it, it goes in the s file. You won’t be dissatisfied .
Unlike most of you, I am going in the opposite direction and rather than accumulate, I am eliminating and have recently disposed of 2800 of my remaining 3000 records. Regarding the Blakey lp with writing, an autograph, I am a fan of such. Two records I have kept and not for musical fondness or monetary value, have a form of personalization, one a Stan Getz 10″ lp on Savoy with a blank back cover has an abstract black pattern drawn in ink by previous owner with the words “Bought in Reno, Nevada.” And underneath ” Oct 17 1953. Lonely as hell no money broke as ever payday in three days.”
The other is , and I may have spoke of this one before, Dizzy Gillespie’s School Days. I bought this lp in a thrift store here in West Palm Beach years ago simply for the inscription, which states, ” To the coolest guy around, Love Jayne and Sue ’58”
And I may never play the records again, yet I pull them out and look at the words and wonder. I was 1 and 6 years old respectively when someone and Jayne and Sue wrote on the back of these records. And they are no longer around most likely. However, the word on the lps have this hold on me. Perhaps it’s a connection to those who came before, because basically I feel that all I as a collector did was to hold the records for the next person in line.
I feel the same as lennib, maybe because we started in the first part of the fifties. I recently let a 10% of my collection go, not having anyone interested in my family. more than once I felt like a transitional custodian of part of the great music musicians left us. before or after I’ll have to leave myself and would like to be substituted by someone who will dedicate the same love I did my whole life, the next in line as lennib said.
Al looks like you need to set up a For Sale section! 🙂
lennib, dottorjazz, since I turned 70 in September, I have been doing this as well. I don’t want my wife to be burdened with 7000 records and be at the mercy of some unscrupulous dealer (like myself). I am doing it slowly, about 2-300 at a time either on ebay or giving them away to friends. (NO I don’t have an original 1568 to sell although I did a few years ago). The Swedes call this process “death cleaning.” In Swedish, the word for death cleaning is döstädning, which is the cleaning and de-cluttering you do when you think your time on Earth might be coming to an end. Although I hope to live many more years and wish the same for lennib and dottorjazz our mortality is a fact and I want to take control of how my records are distributed (and make a little money as well).
Al, my guess is that you didn’t think your post would take such a morbid turn.
Dottorjazz, Bill, I’m 67 and while that isn’t old, I am embracing the concept of decluttering. And I echo the wishes for a long life for you both and indeed for all who read this.
Having at one time 10,000 records, moves and such found me with an amount dealable with until I recently looked at a Hampton Hawes record, that has moved with me from Chicago to Detroit to Marion, Ma., and to Jupiter, Fla. and realized I haven’t played it in some 35 years. Why do I still have it? And thus I began to prune.
What I have left may also soon go in boxes to a dealer; at the moment, they’re ones I will play and enjoy. Until the turntable, amp, etc . ceases to work and then I’ll just play my horn and use the internet.
And yes, poor Al, his page is now getting comments from de-collectors, rather than hobby enthusiasts.
Also the de-collectors are interested in following the market, the $ 1000 bin etc. Business is business. Bill and lennib, I am beating you as a 77 yr old.
The process is on, you cannot take them with you. You cannot leave your treasure to your widow. Better take bold decisions now and cash in.
I am happy to set up a non-profit foundation for you decluttering types to gift your records to. (It’s only non-profit because I hoard and rarely sell.)
Gregory,
I just reread the Gitler notes to the McPherson lp. I am curious as to what was borderline offensive? Next to last paragraph?
My fellow old guys, so your thin’in the herd. I am curious to hear what stays and what goes,are you ca$hing in with joy ? Does your decision on what to keep based on perceived value or musical greatness. I beg you to drop some of that vinyl off at your local thrift store. I am looking forward to some great crate digging !
Art, in reply to your query, what I am keeping matters to me either musically or as mentioned in my post of March 7th, sentimentally. Coltrane was the first musician I really heard, totally understood in my own way and thus half of the 300 I kept feature him. But that’ll get thinned because I don’t need the same music on multiple lps and CDs.
And lately I am finding that in most cases I don’t need the physical object anymore, as long as I can access it somehowsomewhere if I ever want to hear it again.
There has been a group of people I have sold to lately perhaps a couple hundred went to them; the bulk, alas for you thrift shoppers, has gone to a prominent interest webstore with initials of DG.
Being 50 now i’ve already sold many records. I regret some, I have never been a compulsive buyer. Just buying original press in the best condition available i really want to listen to no matter how collectible they are or not. I have only 500 records.
I file that record under WOODS, for what it’s worth. 😀
Off topic but :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/303091741582?ViewItem=&item=
This one did not sell. Too expensive !
Regarding decluttering:
When the time comes does one really want to spend his time dealing with selling online, packaging records, nitpicky buyers, etc, etc?
Maybe if you have less then 500 records but if you have more then a few thousand it’s a different story. An older friend of mine who just passed away recently sold his main collection of 8000 records to a eBay powerseller around 10 years ago. He got roughly $30 a record but everything went; no hassle and no fuss. Yes that meant his mint OG “candy” and nearly the complete Prestige catalog went for $30 a pop but it also meant all his $5-$30 records went away too.
I enjoy my records…it’s a library…I don’t get too hung up on their value and what will happen to them. It’s a fun hobby and yes many of my albums are valuable but in the end they’re just records.
Michel: not too expensive in absolute terms. This seller does not have the guts to start with a lower starting price.
I had a similar ‘holy grail’ on Swing (Duke Jordan trio 25 cm). I put it on for 99 usd, it ended at 2400.
This seller recently had a few interesting Barclay albums. They were on and off Ebay. He is not too sure of himself apparently. He will come back with TILT, if it does not sell this time.
Guys, being 51 I still am on the aquire-train. I very rarely sell LP’s and have about 3000 records now. Last year I’ve purchased som real goodies like True Blue, City Lights etc. In 20 years who knows what will happen. Maybe jazz LPs are loosing their following? Or not.
Right here in the thread it seems several are selling off. Good for the rest of us but still very expensive to buy quality items…..
I used to find those anti-free jazz notes pretty upsetting, Gitler and so forth, but at this point they seem quaint passing swipes. I do think it’s pointless to waste space reserved for McPherson’s Parkeriana to shit-talk Albert Ayler or whatever, but the deed was done and I’m sure a hell of a lot more people know Ayler’s name than Charles McPherson anyway.
Bill I really like the concept of “death cleaning.” It’s blunt but necessary.
Still under 40 here (for now) and still buying, although I’ve been purging records I haven’t played for some time. Mostly things I required before I had access to pretty much any song on the internet.
It’s a long shot, but if anyone is selling any of the following let me know. We can avoid ebay fees! 🙂
Clifford Brown “New Star on the Horizon”
Sonny Rollins “Saxophone Colossus”
Evan Parker / Derek Bailey / Han Bennink “The Topography Of The Lungs”
Chet Baker “Sings”
Charles Mingus “The Clown”
Mal Waldron “Left Alone”
Serge Chaloff “Blue Serge”
Joe Harriott & Amancio D’Silva Quartet “Hum Dono”
Bill Barron “Modern Windows”
Sahib Shihab ? “Sahib’s Jazz Party”
J.R. Monterose – “In Action”
Ron Carter – “Where?”
Johnny Griffin “A Blowing Session”
Lee Morgan “The Cooker”
@Rudolf : yes starting price is too high. It keeps many potential bidders away. Not experienced seller, shows everyone he desperately wants the big money.
I’m younger than many of our esteemed colleagues, but have been clearing out the collection quite a bit over the past few years. For a couple of reasons. First, I have 3 young kids and they’re expensive as hell and only getting more so. Second, I realized I wasn’t listening to a quite a large number of LPs because my tastes have evolved so felt no reason to keep them (e.g., sold quite a few jazz organ records). Third, I have enjoyed putting my (ever shrinking) funds towards upgrades of favorite records rather than collection expansion. Perhaps my focus will change again in the coming years, but that’s where I am right now.
The big drawback of the Blakey LP is that it is inscribed (“to Claudia”), not signed. I am always happy with a signed LP, but an inscribed copy makes no sense to me, unless it happens to be inscribed to you!
Speaking of which, I recently picked up a nice hardcover copy of Art Pepper’s biography “Straight Life.” The HC has long been out of print and it hard to find in decent condition for a reasonable price because there were not many printed to begin with and it has a white dust jacket that stains and chips easily. Anyway, I found a copy for very cheap but it was sight unseen (no photos). Anyway, given the low price, I took a flyer. It arrived it nice condition, so I was pleased. Then I opened it to inspect it and found that it had been inscribed on the title page by Art Pepper “to Joe” ! No kidding. What are the odds? It’s so cool!
Joe L., cool tale re Pepper book and major cool re inscription. It’s quite synchronous the way it all came down and quite a nice treasure.
Personally, I am all for the signed lp… Its the proverbial icing on the cake if you will. There is a certain sense of connection to the music each time you pull out the LP to put on your turntable in the thought that the artist once held that very album in their hands. Even if it is personalized to someone entirely unknown as in this case, an autographed original first pressing really completes that trifecta between the moment in time when the album was first recorded, the artist themselves and the listener.
As for the autograph on 4003, it certainly looks legit. I have a few other albums where Art signed the back in similar fashion, however the condition of the record itself is still a bit of a concern as noted in previous comments.
I also just turned 70 and my wife now wants me to put small stickers with assumed value on the more valuable, just in case (my dad is 98 and still going strong, so I hope for the best). Have around 2000 in my living room that I play, half originals, another 1500 stored. They could go. However, I love my records and their wonderfull music, and histories, started when I was 16, as well as my vintage hi fi gear, 300B single ended and Tannoy
Kirstian — I started doing the same thing a few years ago. Don’t want my family getting too ripped off.
Mark — 8000 a record at $30 a pop is $240,000. If someone offered me $240,000 now, I’d probably do the same deal — and I bet my collection tops your friend’s. But, if I did that, what would happen to Jazz Collector? Would it have to become Ex-Jazz Collector?