Signed and Sealed: A Rare Combo
Quite an interesting set of jazz vinyl we’re watching now on eBay, starting with Miles Davis, Someday My Prince Will Come, Columbia 1656. This one has the rare combination of being both autographed and sealed. The autographs all look legitimate and they are on the back of the cover, featuring Miles, Paul Chambers, Jimmy Cobb, Wynton Kelly, Hank Mobley and JJ Johnson. As for the seal, when Columbia issued records in this area they often had an inner sleeve that was sealed. I know this because I recently purchased a copy of a similar record. So in this case, the record is unplayed, and the cover has autographs of some of the greatest icons of jazz. The auction closes tomorrow and the bidding is in the $300 range.
Here’s one that says “Org” in the listing, which I assume means original, which is a bit of an overstatement, unless you take the seller at her word and accept that it’s an original New Jersey pressing, which it is, just not an original first pressing: Sonny Rollins, Saxophone Colossus, Prestige 7079. It’s a nice Jersey pressing, in M- condition for the record and the cover. And, for a non-first pressing, it will reap a hefty price as it is already in the $400 range.
Here are a couple ending later today:
Stanley Turrentine, Look Out, Blue Note 4039. This looks to be an original West 63rd Street pressing in VG+ or VG++ condition. The bidding is now in the $320 range.
John Coltrane with the Red Garland Trio, Prestige 7123. This is an original New York yellow label pressing. The record and cover are both listed in VG+ condition. The price is in the $300 range.
on miles: i notice the “CBS” above the deep groove, and no deep groove on side 2. doesn’t this mean that this is a later pressing, after the CBS branding acquisition?
“Original N.J. D.G.” The seller of the Saxophone Colossus is a very serious seller. She says in the notes: “a nice second pressing copy of this classic”.
I for one accept org. N.J., as I would accept e.g. “org. 47W63 labels, DG”.
Buyers should read, it is all there!
GtF: I have sealed copies of CL # 1619 (Chico Hamilton) and a sealed copy of “Someday my prince…”.
My Miles copy is identical to the one on auction, with CBS, no clear DG. The Hamilton is definitely DG and without CBS.
I think you have a point there GtF.
re: Saxophone Colosssus … How can one grade a cover with a 2″ split and abraded corners as NM or EX? Oh, sorry, it’s because it’s a clean split. OK, if there are absolutely no other defects, then EX would be appropriate.
Rudolf;
I agree the seller clearly stated twice that the SaxCol is a second pressing, but I still don’t understand the “ORG” in the title – unnecessary, and can only be explained as a come-on, serious seller or no; to me, original means first pressing: period
Jeff – the small split to me means VG++ (? Ex) at best; “NM/EX+” is not justified, IMHO
Seller’s presentation is impeccable, just as Bob Djukic’s are – it does not excuse either from the necessity for accuracy and truthfulness
On LJC’s site it notes that the CBS 6-eye label was a transitional version only used in 1961, sometimes with DG, sometimes without. Someday My Prince… was released in 1961, and I can’t find any reference to a US DG 6-eye copy, or a copy without the CBS, so that may be a first. Interestingly, Discogs has a Canadian copy that is DG (http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=4828558) and a 2-eye that appears DG (http://www.discogs.com/Miles-Davis-Sextet-Someday-My-Prince-Will-Come/release/3922802). Not definitive, but not entirely what I expected. In any case, I think the real interest here is the cover.
madame*mono*jazz has more interesting records on auction eg. “Lou takes off”
This one is also meant to be ORIG. but the back cover says INC. Label side 1 is w/o R trademark, but I would like to see the second label and bet it is with R (inc) …
She also lists the Musings of Miles as original, although it has a NJ label – this time she does not say anything about it being a second pressing
Question about the Magnificent Parker – it has a black label (just as my copy does); but I thought in early Clefs, yellow label was original
After some investigation, I have come to believe that Clef labels were never yellow (although the Verve-Clef series were at first) – it is Norgran labels that were first yellow and later black
i noticed that lou donaldson as well. if she deliberately didn’t show the “inc/r” label, she is willfully withholding important info and is despicable.
if she doesn’t know the difference, she is making brazen claims with no knowledge and is despicable.
there you go. despicable.
My copies of Columbia 1669 & 1670 (Miles @ Blackhawk) are 6-eye, no DG and NO CBS – so I suspect the original of 1656 would not have CBS either – the transition took place sometime in 1961, which is the date of release of these albums
However, even an early 2nd pressing with those signatures is probably worth the final price, which looks to be at least $650
I asked her about the Lou and she said No “R” either side
So, a first pressing of a (much desired)LP, with a substituted, later cover – how much do you think that would decrease its value?
a lot. and she is still willfully refusing to admit it or be clear. i suppose that isn’t AS bad, but i still hate it and i always hide sellers who do that sort of thing.
I don’t know that the cover were substituted per say but that they had leftover records and newer covers. I have found many no r 1500 series with the inc on the cover
I don’t know, to me it wouldn’t be a big deal if the covers and records for different issues were combined during this transitional period. Leftover labels, mixed-up inner sleeves, what are you gonna do?
I have gotten a couple of sealed ESPs with stereo jackets and mono wax. Stuff happens. I even have a mongrelized Columbia with a white label mono disc and a clean stereo jacket. Yuck.
Yuck???
I thought you said it wouldn’t be a big deal!
I have an off-topic question. Have any Blue Note 12″ titles been seen with a flat edge, but only one side having a deep groove? RVG and ear are in the earwax on each side. Labels are pre-incorporated.
Sorry … deadwax, not earwax. Damn autocorrect. :-/
Tonight I threw on a Mint 1st pressing of MJQ, “Concorde”. I have not played this in quite some time and forgot how great it was. I Love Milt Jackson on the Vibes.
It’s nice getting back to LP’s in your collection you have not heard in some time.
Peace
Joseph;
Yes!!!
And can anyone explain the relatively low auction receipts for those early, classic MJQ’s?
this has been discussed over on london jazz collector. vibes are a divisive instrument, like organ and flute. the MJQ has not aged well for some collectors. i myself have a few of their albums but have never been too into them. i much prefer milt in other settings.
Yes, Greg the Fish, agreed.I too prefer Milt in other settings. “Statements”, on Impulse, for instance.
Jeff, I have the same question. I have a copy of JR Monterose Lexington address labels both sides and RVG, no inc. no R yet its non flat edge and non deep groove. Cover is non kakubushi Lexington. What intrigues is that the vinyl weight and rim edge is more like the New York 23 era, nothing like the NY USA era pressings which are lighter. I have yet to find an answer to this anomaly.
It seems to me that a flat edge and a non-deep groove label on one side (or both sides) cannot be possible. All other identifiers point to a first pressing. Hopefully someone will carify this for me.
It seems to me that Ng Chee Kia’s LP is a later pressing (perhaps from the NY 23 era)in which left-over Lexington labels were applied
As to Jeff’s question, Fred Cohen’s book talks about worn “centers” which originally created a deep groove, but are at the end of their useful cycle and no longer producing the deep groove; worn stampers were quickly replaced, but the centers were not, there being no reason to worry about whether a deep groove was being created or not.
Bash! Dave Bailey Sextet DG Mono available as well as Horace Silver The Stylings of Silver Original Blue Note..Art Blakey 4003 Jimmy Smith Groovin at Smalls Paradise Blue Note 1586 EBAY Bre-perki and bren_perk
Earl , Gregory the Fish,
I am in agreement with what you say. MJQ LP’s and especially the later ones have not aged well with collectors. I think one of the reasons is that they maybe had so much exposure on the Atlantic label that maybe they are considered too accessible (?)
That being said, I still really like Concorde and Django.
Yes, Milt on his own is great.
One example Milt Jackson at the MOMA on Limelight.
joseph: i don’t really know. when i was first getting into jazz i randomly bought some cheap LPs and obviously (in retrospect) wound up with some MJQs. knowing nothing about them, i thought they would be a free type of band, and was soundly disappointed. i’ve never really enjoyed them, although hard bop and such has come full circle for me. love that, too.
Perhaps the MJQ material has not aged well due to the fact that the group was constantly undergoing personnel changes. It also seems that there is no continuity in the instrumentation. I always thought that they used whatever musicians were hanging around the studio waiting for a gig. While I like almost all of their albums, there is just no flow to their catalog at all.
Terry
I really don’t know what you are referring to:
The group was amazingly consistent, with Jackson, Lewis, Kay and Heath for many many years – they did add Sonny for one session and Giuffre for another, and Kenny Clarke was the drummer in the very oldest albums but the aforementioned group created at least 25 albums over more than twenty years without change in personnel
…and the instrumentation (vibes, piano, drums and bass) NEVER changed
I agree that the MJQ are undervalued by today’s jazz fans, Concorde, Django & Pyramid, among others, are some stellar albums!
(Listening to Concorde while typing this)
I only have 2 vibe albums, one is Concorde and the other is Lem Winchester “Another Opus” on New Jazz. On the rare occasion I get in a vibe mood, I usually reach for Lem. I have a soft spot for these guys who were taken away from us too young. Also Lem was a deputy as am I (although I refrain from revolver tricks).
I accept that these 2 albums have almost zero collector appeal.
I have original pressings of Concorde and the first two Prestige 10″s, and I rarely, if ever, play them. Just too staid for my tastes. I like each of the musicians individually, and appreciate – in the abstract – what they were trying to do with MJQ, but the music is just not very interesting to me. Compare Kenny Clarke on Concorde to his playing on Kook’s Clique, and it’s no contest which LP I will spin every time.