Someone’s Getting Lucky This Week
I had said earlier that it was a big week for jazz vinyl on eBay and there are still many nice items to watch from afar (or from up close, depending upon your point of view and/or eyesight). Among the items of interest to us:
Lucky Thompson, Accent on Tenor, Urania 1206. You don’t hear much about Lucky Thompson anymore, nor do you often seen Urania LPs among the collectibles we watch on Jazz Collector. Thompson was a nice tenor player, an early bopper who played on some of the earliest bop dates. If I recall correctly, Dizzy hired him so that there’d be a sax player on the stage when Bird would either be late or not show up at all. How much longer to you think there will be a collectibles market for Lucky Thompson? This one is in M- condition and is in the $350 range with more than a day to go.
The pianist Kenny Drew generally has more cachet as a collectible artist than Lucky Thompson, but this one suffers from condition issues: The Modernity of Kenny Drew, Norgran 1002. This one is listed in VG+ condition for the record and VG- for the cover, but the picture looks pretty decent. You’ll usually see these covers with some ringwear. It’s a great cover, isn’t it, straight out of the Norgran style of the ’50s. This one is around $80 and is closing today.
While we’re on the subject of Kenny Drew:
Kenny Drew, Undercurrent, Blue Note 4059. This one is listed as an original pressing with NO deep grooves, but I had thought the original pressing had one deep groove. This is one of the more confusing Blue Note collectibles and I know Fred Cohen had a definitive answer on this, but I unfortunately left my copy of his Blue Note book on a plane a few weeks ago and don’t have the answer at hand. At the risk of being repetitive, anyone want to explain this, one more time.
This Lucky on Urania used to sell in the 80 – 100 $ range. We have here the “reputable seller effect”, that makes every record price’s grow up according to the seller’s reputation.
in my Blue Note illustrated, available for free download, I recorded three different possible first pressing, after Fred Cohen’s addenda published here March, 01 2011.
4059 exists in at least three different issues:
– deep groove on side 2 only
– no deep groove, REVIEW COPY STAMP on side one and cover
– no deep groove, REVIEW COPY STAMP on side two and cover
As for other Blue Note numbers, it seems impossible here to state which one is the real first pressing.
I’m not sure there is a definitive answer on this one. In the book Fred said it should be one sided deep groove. But a few months after the book came out Fred auctioned a PROMO NO DG undercurrent and talked about his confusion(for lack of a better word) this one. Unfortunately I don’t think we will ever settle it.
The Lucky Thompson session that comes to my mind is Walkin. Fred also auctioned up a copy of that in his last auction. I’ve always dug that album. I don’t think I have any albums with Thompson as a leader though. Anybody suggest any good ones?
Al: I think this is the link you wanted re: 4059.
https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/original-undercurrent-dg-or-not-dg-that-is-the-question/
…Someone got lucky alright Al, and it’s the lucky stiff who sat in your seat on the next flight and found your copy of Fred’s book ! (Who knows, we may have a new member here in the “collective” pretty soon.)
Al, looks like you’ll need the Blue Note book as a christmas gift, right? 😉
Al, when you wrote THIS post on March 1st of this year, you gave Fred all room to write the following on 4059 when he had a ‘review copy’ on eBay: “For the benefit of Blue Note collectors and/or readers of the pressing guide, I would like to bring to their attention to the recent eBay sale of Kenny Drew “Undercurrent” on Blue Note 4059. The vinyl was in virtually new condition; the jacket showed minor wear (you can find the complete description as eBay #300517372359. What made this copy interesting is the lack of the deep groove on Side 2 and the “Review Copy” stamp on both the Side 2 label and the back slick. This is the first time I have seen a label-stamped review copy of Undercurrent and it raises the issue once again as to the definition of an “original” pressing: is it a record, regardless of any other consideration, that includes all the details – such as a deep groove – that collectors look for, or is it the first issue of that record? It is my impression that the presence of the “Review Copy” stamp on the label is a very strong indication that the “original” Undercurrent pressing had no deep groove.
Blue Note frequently stamped “Review Copy or “Audition Copy” on the jacket only, making it possible to substitute another copy of the same record. But the presence of the “Review Copy” stamp on the label would suggest
that it was the first pressing – sent to magazines and writers prior to its official release. The only exception to this might be in an instance where a record did not sell well and a second group of review copies was distributed. The fact that Kenny Drew never recorded another session as a leader for Blue Note as well as the general scarcity of “original” pressings of Undercurrent leads me to believe that the record’s poor reception in stores might possibly have encouraged Blue Note to try a second distribution of review copies. But that is speculation.
Historically, the presence of a “Review Copy” stamp on the label or cover has usually depressed the value of a Blue Note in the eyes of collectors. What is interesting in this latest sale is that the final bid of $1202.77 for a “Review Copy” was the second highest price ($1311) that Popsike shows for the June 2010 sale of a standard “original” pressing.
My point is that once the deep groove no longer appears consistently on both sides of Blue Note pressings, deciding what is and is not an “original” is difficult, if not impossible.
Cordially, Fred”
Later on, Don-Lucky shared the following quote on 4059 from Larry Cohn with all of us:
Here’s a quote sent to me from our good friend Larry Cohn back on February 2nd, 2011 regarding this very issue:
“Fred’s point is that for collectors when there is an older or original technology or version that would be preferable, even in the case of a “tie”. A perfect example is his sale last week on eBay of a copy of Undercurrent by Kenny Drew, BLP 4059. It is always an interesting title since it does not exist with the dg on both sides (apart from a Plastylite test pressing I guess, but I mean a real copy with actual Blue Note blue & white labels on it).
Fred of course lists the DG-one side as the original. But he is consistent –in his auction he did not call his copy an original because it had no dg at all, even though it had the Plastylite P stamped in the vinyl runoff. I looked at his copy in the store before he sent it off to the winner (who paid some weird amount like $1200) and it had “REVIEW COPY” stamped on the label on Side B, as well as on the back of the jacket.
In my research that “REVIEW COPY” stamp would be just the evidence I was looking for to prove that this copy of 4059 was indeed a first pressing original. It would support my theory that when the new technology was introduced it was applied to new releases, with the older repressings getting second class citizen (or more accurately random, anything will do) treatment. So I would argue that the NO DG with P copies of 4059 are the originals and the dg-1 side copies are random second pressings. Of course, the no P copies are reissues dating from 1966 or 1967, 5 or 6 years after the record was released.
But I see Fred’s point. For later titles, say Song for My Father or The Sidewinder, getting a dg copy is very, very satisfying from a collecting standpoint. It is preferable to the good old, garden variety modern NO DG with P copy. That is his point-of-view and he is honest enough to even go by it when he is selling something.
-Larry”
I’m glad I copied and pasted these comments back then, since they might come in handy when I find a copy of 4059 for myself! 😉
I agree, Kenny Drew does not get enough notice. I have an original pressing of ‘This is New’ on Riverside with Hank Mobley and Donald Byrd. Boy, what a fantastic album. I only have ‘Undercurrent’ on CD, so I can’t comment on the grooves.
For the transition period, lets say between 4050 and 4080 (to sum up as large as possible) it is almost impossible to tell whether a DG is the real first one or not. The question in it itself is somewhat senseless because Playstylite would use old and new stampers at the same time. That is my theory from the beginning of collecting Blue Note. Anyway we all know that DG attract premium prices.
The very best of Kenny is imo the East West record walking and toalking, with Joe Maini. A must have record in every hard bop collection.
I am wondering if anyone knows what the rubber stamp NR means on album covers? My copy of Undercurrent has this on the back of the cover. Inc & R label, no DG, ear, RVG stamp, 61st cover.
NR means no return. it was used by wholesalers to sell remainders (or cut outs)of records that had been deleted and were now out of print. they would usually sell for $1-$2 in a special section in most record stores.
Anybody hear of the lucky Thompson quintet on London records d 93098 and whats a fair price for ex?
James: is this ex Ducretet Thomson?
Yes it’s ducretet Thompson
Sorry for the late response