Tales from the Inbox and From the Turntable
Clearing out some old emails and watch list and found this link and note from our friend Clifford: Hank Mobley, Blue Note 1568. The note reads as follows: “Watching this one because it is apparently quite unplayable.” And that it was. The vinyl was listed in G condition, with the caution that it would not play without skipping. The cover was VG- with edge wear and seam splits. I think Clifford sent me the listing when the price was about $150. It would up selling for $810 with 16 bidders. Quite a lot, IMHO, for a record that I wouldn’t put on my turntable, but perhaps the new owner will like to frame it, or have it for investment purposes, figuring that these things are only going up in value, no matter what the condition. Trying not to pass judgment, because collecting is very personal and we all have our passions and idiosyncrasies.
Also in the mailbox was the notice for the 44thAnnual Jazz Record Collectors’ Bash, which will be held this weekend, June 22-23, at the Hilton Garden Inn in Edison, New Jersey. I would love to attend but, alas, I will be in The Berkshires. Looks like it will be a fun event, not just poring through records, which is always fun, but also some of the activities, including presentations by Will Friedwald, Loren Schoenberg and others. If anyone does make it to the bash, let me know and perhaps we can arrange for a guest post.
I actually followed up on some of my thoughts yesterday, taking the time to listen to a couple of albums that I haven’t put on the turntable in a while. The first was Zoot Sims Quartets, Prestige 7026, which still doesn’t have any bidders. This record was issued probably around 1955 but it comprises two sessions that were presumably first issued on 78 RPM. One was recorded in 1950 and features John Lewis, Curly Russell and Don Lamond. The second was recorded in August 1951 and features Harry Biss on piano, Clyde Lombardi and Art Blakey.
When I looked at the dates, 1950 and 1951, for some reason I assumed Zoot was maybe 20 or 21 and, when I listened to the record, I was thinking how mature he was for that age. Of course, now that I’ve had time to look at Wikipedia, Zoot was more like 25 and 26 when he made these recordings and he’d had all that experience with the big bands and, in particular, the Four Brothers with Woody Herman. The album is nice, it’s an important marker in Zoot’s history because it’s a very early recording of him as a leader, and the playing is excellent. Very Pres-like, of course, and not as much bop-influenced as I would have thought, given the year of the recording, the label and the personnel. Would I recommend it? Definitely. Will I listen to it again? Probably not, but that may be more a reflection of all of the other albums in my collection, rather than the quality of this particular record.
I then put on Dexter Gordon, A Swingin’ Affair, Blue Note 84113, which I also wrote about in yesterday’s post. That copy sold for $589.79, more than I would have expected for a stereo pressing. It turns out my copy is also an original stereo pressing and I have a fairly strong memory of when I purchased the record. It was in the Village, probably in mid- 1970s, at a shop called Looney Tunes on 8thStreet. I was by myself and popped in on my lunch hour and there, in the bargain bins, were a group of the Dexter Blue Notes, all sealed and new: Go!, A Swingin’ Affair and Dexter Calling.
I bought them all, probably for $1.99 each, figuring they were the blue labels, which were the Blue Notes that you would find sealed on the shelves in those days. Still, I didn’t have these records in my collection and I was a HUGE Dexter fan, having had the great, awesome privilege of seeing him live several times as he had started playing the clubs in New York again. Anyway, I brought the records home and, voila, they were all original pressings, which I didn’t realize at the time, but I knew they had the blue and white labels and they didn’t have the Liberty logos and the god-awful packing of those blue-label pressings. They looked absolutely legit to me and, it turns out, they were.
As you might expect, my experience listening to the Dexter record was quite different than listening to the Zoot record. The Dexter record is right in my wheelhouse in terms of what I like and, nothing against Zoot, but Dex is one of my favorite artists and, turning the lights down low, I could just picture him standing regally at the Vanguard, holding his horn out in front of him with a beaming grin on his face and the glimmer from the sax lighting him like a halo. And the album has a rhythm section to kill for, Sonny Clark, Butch Warren and Billy Higgins. Man, you could listen to Dexter play “Until the Real Thing Comes Along,” and it’ll either bring a big smile to your face or a tear to your eye. Maybe both. So, yes, I would recommend this record, and yes I will listen to it again. In fact, I may go listen to it again RIGHT NOW.
Any chance you want to unload the Zoot?
It honestly seems that, at the moment, any original copy of 1568 that plays without skips or sticks is now automatically worth $1,000 on eBay. A copy that looked like it barely survived an 80’s slasher flick went for a starting price of $1,150… It was described as being in Poor (P) shape, although it apparently didn’t skip. The photos looked pretty bad. Another brutalized copy recently fetched a bit over $1,200, even though the record was only Good (G). None of these copies had the New York 23 variation, either. I’m not sure if this is what the $1,000 bin was intended for…
Dexter was incredible!.
A story from a journo/broadcaster on the BBC, once said, during his set at Ronnie Scott’s in London, in the middle of his pianist soloing, Dexter left the stage, walked over to the bar at the side of the venue where the said chap was standing enjoying the set. Dexter approached the bar next to the chap. Star-struck but playing it very cool the said chap cooly turned and asked Dexter what he was drinking?, The drink ordered, Dexter thanked him, drank the Liquor, headed back to the stand, whilst the pianist was just concluding his solo, Dexter picked his horn up, clipped it in the neck support and hit the bridge of the tune, BANG!
All without missing a beat and totally silk smooth. DAMN!
I just love that yarn.
A Swingin’ Affair, is a top Dexter Lp.
I would also like to nominate a later Dexter Gordon recording on Prestige, The Panther ! (PR 10030). from 1970
The cut ‘Body and Soul’ is just wonderful Dexter Gordon expression. Tommy Flanagan on piano is in top form too!
I love the Panther as well. Mrs. Miniver is a great Dexter composition and The Christmas Song will evoke snow and a warm fireplace, even on the first day of summer.
GST — unload because I will probably never listen to it again? That would probably be logical but, as we all know, collecting has nothing to do with logic. Every time I look at my collection, I would see that gap. 🙂
I hear that Al. I would probably keep it as well. 🙂
That’s a great story with the Dex records… I wonder if they were old store stock, or something? Or maybe somebody that had bought them long ago and hadn’t opened them brought them in? Either way… must’ve felt nice to be the first one to play them. Not many people still around can claim to be the first ones to hear original copies of those albums. That’s pretty special that you got to do that.
Somewhat unrelated… I haven’t had the chance to spin it yet, but I found Asante by McCoy Tyner in the bargain bins yesterday. Is that a good one? I’ll probably play it in a day or two, just wondered if anybody had anything to say about that album.
A few years ago I brought a copy of True Blue as part of a collection. The record was OK, but the cover was a mess — water stains, mold, and the unmistakable scent of mildew. I wound up trashing the cover and putting the record in the cover that previously held my Japanese copy. Sharing this anecdote in relation to the Mobley record selling for $810. I’m wondering if I should have even kept the cover, in case I get a better copy of the record and cover and want to sell the one I have. I just couldn’t look at that trashed cover, and I didn’t like the idea of having the mold or mildew possibly infect the other records on my shelf.
A few months ago I walked in to the local record store just as some guy was checking out with a 5 record-thick stack of Blue Notes that he pulled from the dollar bin. I think Empyrean Isles was the top one… Obviously, I was envious, but I was told by the store owners that those Blue Notes were only in there because they were covered in mold. I may have dodged a bullet there, because I have a no mold policy (that crap can totally spread through a collection), but I would’ve wanted to keep them. Yet I always feel bad selling moldy records, too. So, although the guy walked out with a few hundred dollars under his arm… I wouldn’t know exactly what to do with it all if I had grabbed them first, since apparently the mold was everywhere, not just on the surface of the covers. Fact of the matter is, some people will drop a paycheck on this stuff even with the mold and the scratches. From a purely financial perspective, maybe you should’ve kept the cover. But, from any other perspective… You wouldn’t have used it. You would’ve had to store it somewhere away from the records. And you’d probably feel bad taking $750+ from a guy in exchange for a record with a moldy cover. I probably would’ve just rubbed it down with alcohol myself, torn off any remaining mold, put it in a sleeve, and used the cover, but… to be fair, I’m not exactly the classiest collector ever. Point is, as a collector of your standing with your standards and your collection… You probably did the right thing. You have your collection to consider, and you aren’t one to play MacGyver with $1,000 records. You don’t have a use for a moldy cover. It’s that simple. If you find a better copy, or at least one with a good cover… the Japanese cover will do if you sell one of the records. It’ll be better for the buyer, and you’ll still get $500 or so. Plus, you wouldn’t be contributing to eBay insanity by getting a buyer to pay obscene amounts for a moldy record.
Keep an eye out for a decent cover without a record or with an obliterated record and change it up. Guy I know did that with 1568 — found a coverless clean copy for cheap at a flea market, and then bought a cover with no record for $100 on eBay years later.
If I could get a clean cover for True Blue for $100, I’d be quite thrilled. Somehow, I don’t think so, not in today’s market.
Yeah $100 for a nice 1568 cover is a steal these days. I’m still hoping to run across a cover for my 1540.
I mentioned this elsewhere, but what portion of the overall value does one attribute to a cover vs the record? I say it’s 60/40 in favor of the cover (however I’m more apt to by a nice record even if the cover isn’t in that great of shape).
GST, cover/record value is a tricky subject. Opinions may vary on the proportion AS LONG AS both elements are present. But if one element is missing, the value of the “incomplete package” plummets on the one hand, but on the other hand – try to get the missing element at a reasonable cost!
I was caught in this dilemma a few times. One of those examples was the coverless BN 5010 bought from Jack Brown for $10 or $15 (I mentioned it in a comment to the recent Dolphy post). The record is a very nice VG++ but finding a cover in a matching shape proved impossible at a reasonable cost (while I was still actively collecting). Recently, I even watched a VG copy with a cover that had a very decent front but stained back. It went for more than I felt comfortable forking out just to get that cover.
Another example were both vols of Wardell Grey on Prestige I picked up in a Chicago shop in the late 90s. Both NYC first presses with the lemon-yellow labels, vinyl is a very nice VG+ to VG++ but w/o covers and even labels were damaged by mold. The covers obviously were thrown in the trash by the shop. The price was $2.99 each – obviously I could not pass on them – but ever since finding the correct framed cover versions for a reasonable cost… I did not succeed. Still have both records.
Considering the opposite situation, I doubt I would ever buy an empty cover of a hard-to-find jazz LP for anything more than a very nominal price. “Good luck finding the missing LP” would be my reason.
ILYA, agree that if one element is missing it commands less than half the price of a complete package (although Open Sesame without a jacket just sold for $798).
As far a complete package is concerned I think of it like this…what would sell for more, a NM- cover with a VG+ record or a VG+ cover with a NM- record? On average i would think the higher grade cover would sell for more as it present better and even a NM- looking album may have damage.
Most of us posting here are first about the music, but we must remember not everyone bidding on these records have the same view point.
Last, but not least, I think it’s rare to find a jacket in good shape. After all how often do we see jackets for sale vs records. We all seem to have a handful of rare records awaiting a home, but fewer of us seem to have jacket with no album.
Interesting topic!
I would love to find a better cover for my Mobley 1568. I bought it about 15 years ago in the largest record store in Amsterdam (where I live). They bought (and eventually sold) a large collection with many original pressings, lots of Blue Notes etc. However, many of the jackets were sort of ruined as the previous owner had the strange habit to a) do a lot of writing on the back cover and b) sometimes cut out (with a razor knife) the little photo’s at the bottom of the liner notes. Anyway, I was able to buy a copy of 1568 with a NM record, a NM looking cover (at the front) and a ruined back cover (with pics being cut out and a lot of writing, even some blue paint!). Have found quite a few empty covers over the years, also on eBay, but never 1568…
@ GST: I actually have a (spare) cover of 1540, but is not a “framed” cover (but one with the so called “bump” in the middle of top seam), and it has some writing on the back…
I’d be interested in the cover Peter if you selling. You can email me at gst510 at hotmail
Someone needs to create a trading platform for orphan covers and records. How about sister sites:
JazzCoverCollector.com and JazzRecordCollector.com.?
Peter-A: you have bought at Concerto part of the collection of Mr Niels Lettinga, lawyer with the nickname ‘Maître de Disques’. I have known Niels very well, but never understood his destructive habit of damaging the sleeves.
GST, I will email you!
@ Rudolf: yes indeed, it was the (in)famous Lettinga collection. Most, well actually all records/jackets had at least writing – sometimes even “rants” – on the back. And some also had the photo’s cut out. I remember how thrilled I was when one of the shop employees was unpacking one of the boxes (with mainly Blue Notes) and (finally) found True Blue, but… it appeared that on the FRONT of the cover the tiny photo of Tina Brooks was being cut out! Well, I bought it anyway (and resold it later when I found a better copy).
Mr. Lettinga must have been a colourful person. I understand he compiled a number of scrapbooks, for which he used the photo’s that he cut out of the jackets. I have seen a couple of these books…actually they are quite fun!
I have a New Jazz Gigi Gryce from Lettinga. But not too much writings on cover. No removed picture. Actually quite funny to read his comment “Rokers forbidden, except whenever this item leaves the shelf and except for Granville’s spanish cohorts featured at Ray Bryant’s feelings”
Just another illustration of how different everyone’s brain is.
When living in Southern California about 10 years ago, I came upon a collection via Craigslist of a man who had been in the army stationed in Germany in late 50s. His records were also covered in notes all over but instead of cutting portraits out, he covered faces with masking tape. When the face was large enough, he would only tape over the eyes. How strange, I thought then.
Michel/Peter
Niels wrote the liners for an album by J.R. Monterose, with Jon Eardly, recorded in Holland.
He had read law at Leyde University, worked at the Noord Hollandse Provinciale Staten and was a bachelor, living in Amsterdam at his mother’s place.
I have that Monterose/Eardley on Munich Records — it’s pretty good.
Clifford: I am surprised to see the Munich album in a collection abroad. The album is nice indeed.
@Rudolf: that record isn’t rare in the US. In fact, I think I have an extra copy to my “to sell” box. I like it and have always kept a copy for myself.
Everything going well Al? We miss you.
Too well. In addition to my regular work, my partner and I are ghost-writing a book on cybersecurity. We thought we were settling into a lifestyle business, but this so-called lifestyle business is really affecting our lifestyle. I’ll try to be back with a post in the morning. Sorry I’ve been so inconsistent for so long. When I started, I used to make sure I did a post every day. I never thought it would ever happen that I would go so long between posts. Not complaining, just explaining.
Not to worry. I just like the site and the banter/insight that comes along with each new post. Glad you’re doing well.
Sorry I haven’t posted in a long time, but I read this tonight and nearly fell out of my chair:
http://www.vulture.com/2018/07/how-a-young-lower-east-side-jazz-group-became-cult-favorites.html
Absolutely love swingin’ affair, similar vibe to Go! but not as ingrained in my memory. Recorded the next day if I’m not mistaken.