Watching Some Blue Note Records on eBay
Here are some Blue Notes we’ve been watching on eBay:
Lee Morgan Volume 3, Blue Note 1557. This was an original first pressing that was listed in M- condition for both the record and the cover The pictures in the listing were pristine and clear. The record sold for $2,253.88. This Lee Morgan didn’t do quite as well: Lee Morgan, Lee-Way, Blue Note 4034. The record was in M- condition and the cover was VG+. The price was $442.89.
Here’s one that features Sonny Clark on piano: Curtis Fuller Volume 3, Blue Note 1583. This was an original pressing in M- condition for the vinyl and VG+ for the cover. It sold for $612.69.
This one did not reach the seller’s reserve price: The Prophetic Herbie Nichols Volume 1, Blue Note 5068. This was an original 10-inch LP that was listed in M- condition for the record and what looked to be VG++ condition for the cover. The top bid was $255, so we won’t know what the reserve price was.
This one had sold for more than $600 last week, but not this time:
Clifford Brown, New Star on the Horizon, Blue Note 5032. This was an original 10-inch pressing in VG++ condition for both the record and the cover. The price was $395.
This one, surprisingly, didn’t sell at all: Kenny Burrell, Blue Lights Volume 1, Blue Note 1596. This looked to be an original pressing. The record was VG+ and the cover was M-. It does have the Andy Warhol cover, so cover condition is important. This had a start price of $500 and there were no takers. If I were to pay $500 for a record, this might be one, although the VG+ condition always leaves you open to a lot of variables.
2200 bucks for Lee Morgan… An unbelievable price for my wallet… And then the enormous difference in price with the other items here, not to mention the fact that the Kenny Burrell never sold! I guess that maybe, if I had enough for it, then I would have bought the Burrell. But then still, even if I had enough cash, I wonder if I could ever spend a month’s worth of working on a record. Or is it that if you have money to burn, you don’t think that way? 😉
Mattyman
Oh, and then another thing I’ve been asking myself: how come that some of the Blue Note ‘regulars’ fetch more than others? Lee Morgan, Hank Mobley, Dexter Gordon, Bud Powell; almost everytime they’re ready for the 1,000 or even 2,000 dollar bin. But, for instance, Horace Silver Blue Notes, even with great personnel, hardly ever fetch really enormous amounts. So I wonder, folks, how come?
Mattyman
Maybe because there were more of the Silver’s produced,especially his 60’s sessions? That would mean more lps available at a lower(and more reasonable)price. And-may I add-my mono UA copy of Morgan,1557 sounds pretty good to these ears. No way would I cough up that kind of dough for an original! If there WERE a Horace Silver deserving of the “big bucks”,his Cape Verdean Blues gets my vote. The original mono is a KILLER and worthy of the hunt-everything about that session is quality,the absolute best of the hard bop genre,from cover to compostiions,arrangements and solos. Top shelf,baby!
I hear you Ceedee. But then the second question pops up: how big were the runs back then? Did they press the vinyls by the thousands or by the hundreds? I once read somewhere that Hank Mobley’s BLP 1568 was pressed in a run of only 600 copies (can someone confirm this, by the way?), which immediately explains the incredible amounts it fetches sometimes. But then still there are fifties Blue Notes from Horace Silver that changed owners for maybe a buck or 80, 90 maybe a 100. Or was it that Horace Silver sold better and therefore had pressing runs in the thousands…? And last but not least, Ceedee, when it comes to the Cape Verdean Blues, we are in full agreement! 🙂
Mattyman
I third the Cape Verdean vote. I found a copy on ebay two years ago for like $35. It is VG++/VG+ original Mono. I listened to The Tokyo Blue a few nights ago, another one I really like. I got it in the $40 for a M- copy like 5 years ago. They often fetch similar prices on ebay and I love them both. I also would love to know about the print runs. I think Blakey and Silver must have had higher print runs along with a few others. I’ve long searched for this info and have never found anything concrete or reliable.
In other words, folks, if some of the older cats here can tell us a bit more about print runs (hundreds? thousands?) then please share! 😉
Mattyman
Much of the behind-the-scenes, nitty-gritty,etc about your/my/our favorite jazz label will be covered(assumedly)by writer Ashley Kahn’s latest,due to hit the stores come spring of 2011. I,for one,am really looking forward to it(and Matty,if Kahn doesn’t address questions like “print runs”,I’m sure you’ll let him hear about it!)
http://www.amazon.com/Somethin-Else-Story-Records-Modern/dp/0670020664/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1291515605&sr=1-4
Are we sure that Ashley Kahn book is coming out? It was pulled last year from publication.
Regarding the pressing runs, Horace Silver and Jimmy Smith were by far the biggest volume sellers for BN. In fact, I’d bet that more copies of Back at the Chicken Shack were sold than all the flat edge Lexingtons combined.
Well, Ceedee, I’m already looking forward to Kahn’s book, assuming that it -indeed- will cover every little thing one can think of. And to DaveS: that Chicken Shack vs all Lexingtons comparison does put things in perspective…
Re: Sales of Back At The Chicken Shack-in the words of a certain politician who was quoted this week,”That’s a bunch of chicken crap!” Indeed it is…
Folks, last this afternoon I got lucky and I got bent over the table at the same time… I was flipping through a crate of rubbish country music at a local flee market and then all of a sudden I bumped into Blue Soul by Blue Mitchell, Riverside 12-309. An older dude had been breathing down my neck and looking over my shoulder while I was flipping through the country crap and as soon as I pulled out the Blue Mitchell, he loudly notified the owner of the stand shouting: “We’ve got a winner here, chief. This one is worth a lot.” (This took all place in Dutch, this is a rough translation). I guess he was hoping to do what I just did: discover a great find for cheap. Now the price tag said 5 Euro (about $6,60), but right after that old sock screamed blue murder, the stand holder asked him ‘what he reckoned’… Long story short: I ended up paying 70 Euro in cash for the Blue Mitchell, which is around $92,=. Some collectors turn out the be sore losers! Anyway, the record is in perfect condition and so is the cover. And yes, CLICK HERE FOR THE PHOTOS!! My neighbour professionally cleaned the record after I took the photos so that dust specks you see around the label photos are gone. I’m not mad, since I had brought 100 Euro and the Blue Mitchell was the only jazz vinyl that I could find, so the 70 Euro are well spent I think. Listening to it right now, folks, enjoying Jimmy Heath on tenor sax! 😀
Mattyman
That’s a beauty Mattyman.
You have got a real beauty there. That old dude is really a bad looser and a mean bastard.
I wonder what would have happened if you had called the market police and have insisted to take the album for five euros. The standholder, by law, would be obliged to sell at the listed price.
Well, Rudolf, I didn’t really think of that… But then still I wonder if it would have helped: it was just a local flee market full of useless second hand stuff that took place in one of those typical Dutch community centres where on weekdays the senior citizens go to play bingo all day long. The old dude’s stupid screaming cost me 70 Euros, but knowing that I got a superb Blue Mitchell for it that’s probably worth some more takes away all my irritation. As said, my neighbour cleaned it on his nifty machine, I put the vinyl in a brand new inner sleeve and the entire album in a brand new protective sleeve and is snow sharing the shelve with the handful of Blue Note vinyls that I have 😉
This Blue Mitchell is a fine record. I suggest you to try and find all of his Riverside output. Far more valuable, artistically speaking in y opinion than any of his Blue Note albums (except Bantu Village).
Look at the current Jazz record Center auction on Ebay, and you will figure out, how the “reputation seller” factor is important in bid prices.
Well, Michel, for a rookie like me it’s all about what I can spend on originals. It would have been fabulous if I could have bought this one for the original 5 Euro before it became 70… Maybe I’ll get lucky some more and who knows I might bump into a few more Riversides of Richard “Blue” Mitchell 😉
Re:how the “reputation seller” factor is important in bid prices.
Michel,you ain’t kidding! Over the past few months JRC’s opening bids have shot up astronomically..WAY up. Reliable seller,but come on! Now contrast that with the current list of roverd-90. Trusted seller,rare lps,great condition,etc-but an opening bid of $25 on them all. Besides the fact that roverd-90 accepts consignments,what is the difference between the two? One might even think that a list that often has “consigned” lps would have the HIGHER minimum bid and a reserve,neither of which is true for roverd-90. I’m not bidding this week(boo-hoo),but if I were,his new list is the one I’d opt for.
It must be possible to check how big were the BN press runs… As a newcomer (started to collect jazz on vinyl 2 year ago)I am desperately missing this kind of information.. I am ready to pay a lot for my favourite music on an original pressing, but it drives me crazy not being able to understand the mechanism of the very high bids on some (especially BN)items / relatively low on the others. Did I miss any interesting study/article on that subject? Thanks for any advise
I would have told that guy to back off. I hate it when people do that. I would have said every record he pulled was $100.
Re: “We’ve got a winner here, chief. This one is worth a lot.”
How do you say “This guy is a real dickwad” in Dutch? And let’s not forget-
1.Those folks who pull a huge stack of vinyl out of the bins as you trail behind,in effect keeping anyone else from seeing/buying those lps. They then haggle over prices w/ owner before leaving with little of what they tied up for hours.
2.The sellers who go to fairs with their lps w/o prices on them. You know,the guys who wait to see if they can “read” the desperation on your face before they solemnly intone,”Oh,that’s VERY rare…”as your eyes start to glaze over when hearing the over-the-top cost for your now overpriced goodie.
“OFF WITH THEIR
HEADS!”,I say!
Ceedee, agreed with (too) high JRC starting bids. (Anyway,iy seems to work)
Well, Ceedee, hahahahaha… You really made me laugh out loud with that last remark. “This guy is a real dickwad” in Dutch would be something like: “Deze gast is een echte eikel” 😉
To answer point 2 in your remark: I have collected seventies funk on vinyl for years and I’ve learned how to keep a straight poker face during the diggin’ in the crates. Sometimes I even manage to confuse the dealers by raising eyebrows and making greedy ‘a-haaa’ sounds while holding up the kazillionth copy of Don McLean’s “American Pie” album with the Texas flag thumb. That is usually the cue for the dealer to think that I’m a nut and that there’s no money to be made. I then grab a few 1 Euro crap records and put the real gem in the middle of those four, five albums. They then usually charge you 5, 6 Euro for the lot and leave it at that. During my seventies funk hunts that technique usually worked perfectly! 😀
Mattyman
when as a student I would make my regular runs on the Paris flea market in St Ouen, I normally found more vinyl than the scant cash I had in my pocket could buy.
I would then “hide” the valuable items I could not afford to buy, by misplacing them, e.g. a valuable Lennie Niehaus under the George Shearing heading, always somewhere high up, where one needs a ladder. I would make a mental note and take them on my next visit. It worked.
There I bought my True Blue and several other Blue Notes in the early 4000 series for 17 francs, new, dumped by the importer.
This, of course, was in the period when there were not as many scavengers around.
I remember that at Dayton’s in the late seventies the first Japanese buyers had already shown up.
17 Francs is dirt cheap and Paris stories like that scream for more, Rudolf!
“This, of course, was in the period when there were not as many SCAVENGERS around.”
In the words of one Leo Gorcy(don’t ask),”I resemble that remark!”
Michel had said something about the most recent Jazz Record Center auction. I was checking out the auction for Somethin’ Else and Fred wrote,
“The rare laminated West 63rd St. cover has “Blue Note Records” in the original serif typeface, not the sans serif that is most commonly seen.”
Does anyone know the story behind the typeface here?
Mike, well done. I intended to ask Fred, but in the end I forgot. Would be happy to know what it is all about.
I checked my copy of Something Else. It is one of the gold sticker stereo copies and it is laminated and has the same back cover and type face as the JRC one. What is more interesting is that it is a DG BST record with the Inc. Obviously original cover but ??? on the label. Original sticker still on the record for $5.98.
After playing detective while being bored at work i have discovered one thing. I don’t see well enough to differentiate whether fonts are serif or sans-serif on very small ebay photos. Other than that, I can’t wait to get home and look through my collection for Sans-serif typefaces. I have a stereo later re-issue, but have a few other nearby and am now very curious.
As I understand it, this should have West 63rd, no inc, no r, dg, rvg, ear if it is a Mono first pressing. The early stereos were pressed shortly after and could be different(i.e. may have an inc) than the monos from what i’ve read. This could be wrong, but I always thought that the First stereo pressings on the late 1500’s didn’t come out at the same time as the Monos. (Is this the plural of Mono? Does Mono even have a plural form? Where is my HS English teacher?) Blue Notes are so fun.
i think JRC is right.
Some album covers had the SANS-serif “blue note records” on the back. Strangly enough, the SERIF-ones appear before and after the Sans-serif ones.
You can check it out on: http://www.gokudo.co.jp/Record/BlueNote2/index.htm
i believe al,ost every album on this site shows the original covers,front and back
i have a 2nd pressing and a japanese one from the alfred lion series, wich are famous for their identical covers, exept : the serif writing of “blue note records”
my pressing is also a stereo, but new york labels,deep groove,ear,rvg,inc,P
it has the bst number, but without the 8-prefix.
it has the sans-serif.
aha!
Now i see it. When the back cover has the47west 63
adres, there are some with an extra “N.Y.”
Those ones have the SERIF lettering
OK guys, you lost me there. Serif, sans serif; a picture usually makes things a lot more clear. So let’s see who can give us the first pics that properly compare the two typefaces 😉
Mattyman
Yes, what Fred Cohen says is true. Serif type face back adress are true first pressings for this Something Else. 4049 and some others have the same type face.
mattyman: the website: http://www.gokudo.co.jp/Record/BlueNote2/index.htm
has all the blue note covers and backs.Click on the backcover of Somethin’ Else (bn1595) and click on louis Smith (bn1594)
The adresses on the back cover: “blue note records” is written in 2 different ways. On the 1595 it is written in SERIF (straight lines). On 1594 the lettertype is different.It looks more ‘curly’ and is ‘thinner” (er zitten ‘stokjes’ aan het uiteinde van de letters).
Some originals should have the SANS-SERIF lettertype.
IT’S A SCIENCE I TELL YOU!!
Maarten-I’d forgotten about that website,which I lost track of somehow a long while back. It looks like the definitive site for info on real-deal,no-bull first pressings.As usual,Japanese fan sites mean BUSINESS. Thanks again for the link!
i do’nt know how to post pictures on jazzcollector….
I do have a small file that has all the original bn covers and backs (1500-4400).great reference sometimes.If somebody would want it ,just drop a mail i’ll send it to you.
ceedee: My japanese is not good, but it looks like this guy has collected them all.The pics are from real Lp’s.
That means he is finished, he has ‘m all! Weird…..
The rest of his site is also great. What kind of guy would he be? hmmmm…
I’ve spent the last 30 minutes looking around Mr Yokosuka’s sight. It’s a fascinating documentation of his hobbies. He has some really cool “Vintage Audio” systems. I’d love to visit his house for a day, peruse his collection and play with his stereo.
Regarding the Something Else LP:
I’m sure this one has been posted before, but just for interest sake, this website is a useful reference for one of our favorites :
http://www.cannonball-adderley.com/1595.htm
Hello Maarten, bedankt voor de uitleg (Thanks for the explanation for the non Dutchmen amongst us 😉 )
I made a collage from the two covers, courtesy of Mr Yokosuka’s website, but for some reason I can’t post any links today, so I can’t show it here… It is also interesting for some of us to read about the difference between Serif and Sans Serif. I found a great link, but again: I can’t leave links in the comments today. I guess Al’s page is acting up today…
Mattyman
Sorry folks, I tried to copy and paste the link for the photo of the two covers and a link with the explanation of serif and sans serif in the comments, but after 14 attempts I gave up. Al, what’s going on with your site today? How come I can’t leave internet links just like all the other visitors commenting?
Mattyman
FYI – Re: The Japanese Vintage Vanguard collectors site… Larry Cohn made mention to me once a long time ago that even thought it is one hell of a great collection, be forewarned that not all covers shown are in fact original first pressings. I haven’t spent time reviewing every LP to reference the specific covers that may not be first’s but apparently there are a few in there. Never the less, it’s been one of my favorite Blue Note collector sites for many years as well. …Ahhhhhh dare to dream !
Maarten Kools:
can you please send me that file with the original covers?
dsockel@comcast.net
Hi folks. Thanks for the interesting information about the serif-typo. I checked my “Something else” and it has the standard-letters. The pressing is a NYC-pressing.
I found something else on the net. This copy of “Destination out” (http://cgi.ebay.de/JACKIE-MCLEAN-Destination-Out-Blue-Note-Jazz-LP-Stereo-/260702267470?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item3cb310e84e) seems to have a deep groove, but it is a United Artists pressing. Can anyone confirm that?!
Hello Katharsis, what I have learned (if I remember correctly) here at Jazzcollector, is that during the Liberty and also the UA years sometimes old stampers were used, stampers that still had the deep groove in the label section. I also read that there are Liberty and UA pressings that have the deep groove on one side and no deep groove on the other side. The one thing I saw on Mr Yokosuka’s website, is that an original pressing should have the 43 West 61st St., New York 23 address on the back cover. One thing is for sure I guess: an original pressing should have the New York USA on the label. This one has United Artists, so it is not an original pressing. Last but not least I think that besides the RVG in the trail off groove, there should also be the pretzel shaped “P” from plastylite, often referred to as the “ear” in the trail off groove. Now besides that, this still won’t be a bad addition to your collection if you want to use it as a ‘filler’ until an affordable original comes up. If there’s anything wrong with my story, then I hope that some of the regulars here on Jazzcollector can correct me! 😉
Mattyman
Oh, and Blue Note was sold to Liberty in 1966, so I guess that UA was even later, which says something about this Jackie McLean. Anyway, as a ‘filler’ it’ll work just fine I guess.
Hi Mattyman. Thanks for your answer. Through the last years of collecting records I deepend my knowledge about the hard facts, an original BN-pressing should have. I even tried to dig into other labels as well and that’s not so easy (btw. which numbers were the last DG-pressings of New Jazz and Pacific Jazz? Anyone?) But I have never seen a DG-UA or Liberty-pressing, so I was quite stunned and it looked like an oddity. So thank you for this hint. The UA-labels were used between 1970 and 1973.
But all in all, I’ll never logically understand why later pressings or even later NY-pressings were pressed with the old stampers used. And I’d like to know the runs for these pressings, they can’t be many?!