In my online adventures I stopped at a few places, Blue Note, Craft, and a label called The Lost Recordings. I bought two vinyl reissue records from Craft: The Kenny Drew Trio originally on Riverside and Miles Davis, The Musings of Miles originally on Prestige. I think I paid $39 for Miles and $18 for Kenny Drew. I bought these two records for a couple of reasons. One was to check out the new version of the Original Jazz Classics series. I admit that I hated the original OJCs, which began in 1983. While I appreciated that the music was being made available, I never liked the packaging, i.e., the thin vinyl and thin covers. I would buy the OJCs because they were not overly expensive and they could fill gaps in my collection, but I always sought to replace them with original pressings. Of course. Wouldn’t you? I had reached the point where I didn’t own any more of the original OJCs. When Craft came out with the current OJC series, I reached out to their public relations people to get review copies, but, alas, I was not placed on the list, despite my seemingly stellar credentials as not just the owner of Jazz Collector dot com, but also as the host of the Jazz Collector Radio podcast. In any case, I wasn’t getting any free copies of anything from Craft, so when the urge to buy became too strong, I bit the bullet and ordered these two records, plus the Bill Evans boxed set called Haunted Heart, which I haven’t even opened yet.

I chose the Miles and Kenny Drew records primarily because of my radio show/podcast. I have an original pressing of The Musings of Miles, but I hate bringing some of these $1,000 records into the radio studio if I can avoid it. So I could kill two bird with one stone: I could check out the new Craft OJC Series and have an alternative to bring into the studio when it came time to play the Musings of Miles, which I did on the podcast called Old Vinyl, New Bottles. I bought the Kenny Drew Trio record because I don’t own an original copy and I had decided to do a radio show/podcast on Kenny Drew.  When I did do that podcast, Unsung Artists – Kenny Drew on Piano, I was able to use the Craft reissue and play a couple of tracks.

My opinion of the new Craft OJC series is different that that for the original OJCs. I really like these reissues. I liked that they used heavier vinyl, heavier cardboard, and they keep the original packaging. I’m no audiophile, but they sound great to me. There’s a slight mistake on the Kenny Drew packaging band – they refer to it is Kenny Drew’s first as a leader, when, to my knowledge, he had recorded two or three records as a leader prior to this one (a 10-incher on Blue Note, one on Norgran, and one on East-West?). But the band comes off, so it’s merely a packaging thing. For the Miles record, I had always felt that on the original record, Miles’ trumpet on the track “I See Your Face Before Me,” was recorded at too low a volume. I was hoping the reissue would fix that, but it doesn’t. Still, it’s a great record and package. Bottom line, for anyone who doesn’t own an original pressing and wants the music, I don’t think you can go wrong with these OJC vinyl pressings at their prices.

As always, I’m curious as to what others have experienced with these reissues, but I also realize that most of my most loyal readers are not here anymore since I stopped posting regularly and started doing more of the radio shows/podcasts.

BTW, in addition to the Craft reissues, I bought a few new/old Blue Notes. Hopefully, I will be inspired to listen to them and write about them sometime soon.

The post Old Vinyl, New Bottles, Craft OJCs first appeared on jazzcollector.com.]]> https://jazzcollector.com/riverside/old-vinyl-new-bottles-craft-ojcs/feed/ 4 9841 https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/more-questions-about-original-blue-notes/ https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/more-questions-about-original-blue-notes/#comments Thu, 19 Aug 2010 12:13:21 +0000 http://jazzcollector.com/?p=3153 I went back to look at some of those listings from Paperstax that have generated all of this discussion and controversy. I started with Jackie [...]

I went back to look at some of those listings from Paperstax that have generated all of this discussion and controversy. I started with Jackie McLean, Swing, Swang, Swingin’, Blue Note 4024. When you look at the listing, it seems to have it all: West 63rd Street address, deep groove, but . . . when you look closely, Van Gelder in the dead wax as opposed to RVG, no mention of the ear. In bidding, I would assume — and did — that this was an original and that the seller inadvertently did not mention the ear and used Van Gelder descriptively as opposed to using the RVG. The reason is because I don’t quite understand how this can be a Liberty pressing and still have the deep grooves. The same thing with:

Lou Donaldson, Sonny Side Up, Blue Note 4036. This one has all of the same attributes, including the deep groove. It also has the original cover, which was different than the cover issued during the Liberty era. If it was pressed during the Liberty era, how would it have a deep groove, even on one side? Is it possible these records were pressed originally, held back for some reason and released later? If so, however, wouldn’t they have the ear? It’s a mystery to me. In any case, the buyers either were unaware of these glitches — as I was, assuming they were inadvertent — or simply didn’t care. The McLean record sold for $1,025 and the Donaldson record sold for $660. I know if I had paid those prices for those records and they came in the mail and there was no ear on the deadwax and there was a Van Gelder stamp instead of an RVG signature I would be quite upset. You too? I’m hoping there will be answers to some of these questions: Perhaps Don-Lucky will reach out once again to the Blue Note expert Larry Cohn.

The post More Questions About “Original” Blue Notes first appeared on jazzcollector.com.]]>

Good afternoon Al,

I am not sure if your were watching this one already or not, but it sold quite for a record high today…

John Coltrane BLUE Train Blue Note 1577 w.63rd 23 NM!
Item Number: 400138742036
Selling Price: $1838.04

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400138742036&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:CA:1123

I was also chatting with Larry Cohn about this one earlier in the week and here is what he had to say on this auction:

“BLP 1577 was issued in what we commonly consider the first pressing with the old (leftover in stock) 63^rd NEW YORK 23 label on one or the other sides.    The 63^rd NYC both sides pressings, which commonly circulate, overlap with the first pressings, but are not probably “old” in that they would have been in use, covering several pressings, from 1957 through much of 1959.  That is why I consider them 2^nd pressings by default.

I did a calculation once based on frequency of occurrence (I have seen hundreds of these records over the years) and determined that RANDOMLY there would have existed in the neighborhood of 5 copies total of 1577 with the old 63^rd NEW YORK 23 label on BOTH SIDES.   I have never had evidence of any of these actually existing in a collection, but one could easily be buried away somewhere right now, or any that once existed could have been discarded over the years, having been worn out/damaged via play.  So the one side version is considered the first pressing, by default.   The reason I calculated such a low number is simple: we are dealing here with using up  some obsolete older labels that remained in stock.  Same thing happened famously with 1568.   Oddly enough my low calculation is based on rarity of Side 2 bearing NY 23, which is the description of the eBay item!  So I would have to slightly up my calculation –but it would still at this point point to say a dozen or so NY 23 both sides probably pressed –way low  in any event.  You have to remember that at break points in BN’s history, the split label varieties were all random –with such numbers as 4069 (63^rd vs NEW YORK USA) or 4245 (NEW YORK USA vs. A DIVISION OF LIBERTY) as common examples of split being common rather than an aberration due to timing.”

…I really hope he puts all this in a book someday Al ! Have a great weekend.

has been bid up to $1,325 with about 5 hours to go before it closes. I guess there are a bunch of Sun Ra fans out there, which leads me to this point: If anyone out there has any information he or she would like to share on Sun Ra jazz vinyl collectibles, please feel free to use this as your forum for that information. You can just comment on this item or, if you want to get particularly bold, you can send us an email at  al@jazzcollector.com and we can post it as a guest column. Meanwhile, we’ll keep an eye on this one and add it to the Jazz Collector Price Guide after it closes.

label pressing of Hank Mobley, Roll, Call, Blue Note 4058. This was listed as VG++ for the vinyl and VG+ for the cover. It sold for $11.53. Clearly some of these later pressings are not doing it even as fill-ins for collectors. However, this one is a bit more interesting: Lou Donaldson, Here ‘Tis, Blue Note 4066. This was not an original pressing, but it was an earlier pressing than Liberty, we presume: It had one label West 63rd, the other label NY USA, it had no deep grooves and it had an ear in the deadwax. Probably a second press, wouldn’t you guess? This one was in M- condition and it was sold by Euclid Records. The price: $161. Not bad for a non-original pressing.

DISQUES VOGUE P.I.P. 1950’s – early sixties

PRODUCTIONS JAZZ – DISQUES – 54,

RUE D’HAUTEVILLE – PARIS X

INTRODUCTION

Vogue was a French record label founded in 1947 by Léon Kaba and Charles Delaunay, active in the field of jazz and popular music (n.b. John Lewis’ composition “Delaunay’s dilemma”). The label was based in Paris and later in Villetaneuse (Seine). In London, in the fifties, there was also a Vogue Records operation. I don’t know whether they were legally independent or whether the U.K. operation was an affiliate of the French organization. I think the latter. There were obvious links: the name, the label (logo), which was similar, although not 100% identical; artists recorded by French Vogue were also issued by Vogue London and vice versa. However each followed a distinct commercial policy, their catalogues were different. And Vogue U.K. was not present on the Continent.

French Vogue, of course, was present in France, but also in Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Italy and Germany. (Later in the sixties Vogue Deutschland was created.) I suppose they were also represented in Spain, but not in Scandinavia.

One should know that in the fifties the West European markets were not open. If a manufacturer wanted to sell in another European country, he would create an affiliate to distribute his products or choose an exclusive independent importer (agent) responsible for that country. All sales needed to be channelled through the exclusive distributor or agent and no parallel imports were allowed. The retail prices were set by the manufacturer, importer or exclusive agent.

Hereunder I will limit myself to Disques Vogue, the Continental operation. Also, I will not discuss Traditional Jazz, although the New Orleans artist Sidney Bechet was one of the label’s major assets, a real cash cow. I will only discuss albums issued in the fifties and early sixties, not the later Mode and Jazz Legacy series.

The purpose of this study is not to add just another label discography in catalogue or alphabetical order, but to place the label in its historical context: Paris-based, founded just after WWII, American musicians starting to visit Paris for concerts, or to become residents, the development of a local Paris modern jazz scene (Martial Solal, Henri Renaud, Barney Wilen, Bobby Jaspar) and of a European modern jazz scene (Lars Gullin, Hans Koller, Jimmy Deuchar) and a growing appetite of the West European public for jazz recorded in the US, direct imports of the originals being (almost) non-existent.

Two remarks:

1. this is only an introduction to this important label, I don’t pretend to be complete and exhaustive. I give my very personal view on the development and meaning of the label for West Europeans, but also for Americans (see under chapter 4).

2. regarding Vogue’s series, there were 5 in the fifties and early sixties:

10”: 1950 – 1955/56

-Vogue general series Longue Durée LD 001 through LD 222 (jazz and popular music)

-Swing M. 33.301 through 33.353 ? (only jazz, French or US recorded)

-Jazz Sélection JSLP 50.001 through 50.042 ?(only US recorded jazz)

12”: 1955 – 1960’s

-Swing LDM 30.001 through 30.102 (only jazz, French or US recorded)

-Vogue general series LD 494-30 through 697-30 (popular music and some jazz).

The structure of this article is as follows:

1. the role played by the label in spreading of American jazz to West European listeners;

2. Henri Renaud’s 1954 trip to New York for recording purposes.

3. Disques Vogue’s stimulation of European talent by giving them ample opportunities to record.

4. Closing of the circle: Vogue’s lease of their recordings to major US jazz labels.

Chapter 1.

THE SPREADING OF AMERICAN JAZZ TO WEST EUROPEAN LISTENERS.

Vogue’s role in this respect was two-fold:

a. By recording American artists, either (1) visiting the Continent, or (2) having taken up residence there.

b. By issuing US recorded jazz under licensing agreements with US record labels.

Ad 1 a. (1) American visitors to Paris):

the most tangible result of Lionel Hampton’s touring of the Continent was a number of recording sessions in Paris for Vogue (also in Stockholm for Metronome), by the Hamp himself (Vogue LD 166, 167 and 168) and by his sidemen. (Despite Hamp’s ban on any recording by his sidemen).  The sidemen: George Wallington Vogue LD 171; Gigi Gryce – LD 173, Gigi Gryce/Clifford Brown – 175 and Clifford Brown – 179).

Other Paris visitors:

Bob Brookmeyer: Vogue LD 216

Buck Clayton: Vogue LD 157, 182

Frank Foster: Vogue LD 209

Dizzy Gillespie: Vogue LD 077, 132, 134 and Swing 33.310, 33.324

Roy Haynes: Swing 33.337

The Herdsmen (Cy Touff, Bill Perkins): Vogue LD 204, 205

Johnny Hodges: Vogue LD 021 and 089

Jimmy Jones trio (with Roy Haynes): Swing 33.336

Lee Konitz: Vogue LD 169

Wade Legge: Vogue LD 133

Thelonious Monk solo: Swing 33.342

Jimmy Raney: Vogue LD 194, 197, 201

Max Roach: Vogue LD 014

Arnold Ross: Vogue LD 075

Zoot Sims: Vogue LD 170

Mary Lou Williams: with Don Byas Quartet LD 186

Mary Lou Williams quartet: Swing M 33.339

All the above are 10” albums.

12” albums in this category of visiting American artists recording in Paris are:

Les Kentonians: Escale à Paris: Carl Fontana, Curtis Counce, Mel Lewis with Martial Solal: Swing LDM 30.044

Réunion à Paris: Billy Byers, Allen Eager with Martial Solal: Swing LDM 30.048

Clifford Brown “Mémorial”: Swing LDM 30.068 and vol. 2 on Vogue LD 607-30. (The rest of the Brown/Gryce sessions was issued later on 4 albums, Mode LP 9558 and 9560, and Jazz Legacy 17 and 52)

Johnny Hodges LD 588-30 (from LD 021 and 089)

Ad 1 a. (2) Paris residents:

Jay Cameron: Swing 33.341

James Moody: Vogue LD 018 (red vinyl); LD 036

Bud Powell: Vogue LD 523-30

Lucky Thompson: Swing LDM 30.030, 30.039

Ad 1 b (Licensing agreements with US record companies).

The list of US labels with which Disques Vogue had contracted licensing agreements is impressive. Having access to the music of all these labels gave the label a key position in Western Europe. This does not imply however that the label issued all the records of a given label, Vogue made a selection. For Contemporary, for instance, they choose to issue none of the Art Pepper albums, whereas Vogue U.K. had them issued all. I will not bother the reader with all the licensed albums, but give a listing of the US labels of which albums were issued by Disques Vogue, with the main artists featured.

10”: (on Vogue, Swing or Jazz Sélection)

-Apollo: Sir Charles Thompson, Illinois Jacquet

-Blue Note Miles Davis, Clifford Brown, J.J. Johnson, Elmo Hope, Gil Mellé, Horace    Silver

-Contemporary: Lennie Niehaus, Shelly Manne, Howard Rumsey, Barney Kessel

-Debut: Paul Bley, Thad Jones, Quintet of the Year (Bird, Diz), Oscar Pettiford, Jazz Workshop (4 trombones)

-Dial: Bird

-Discovery: Eddie Bert, Art Pepper, Dizzy, Paul Smith, George Shearing

-Esoteric: Charlie Christian, Monk (Minton’s Playhouse)

-Fantasy: Brubeck, Mulligan

-Gene Norman Presents: Clifford Brown/Max Roach, Mulligan, Lyle Murphy

-Mercer: Duke Ellington/Johnny Hodges

-Pacific Jazz: Clifford Brown, Chet Baker, Mulligan

-Roost: Stan Getz, Bud Powell

-Storyville: Lee Konitz

-United (Chess): Gene Ammons

Note: the Blue Notes came first in the general Vogue LD series (Miles vol. 1 – LD 122 = BLP 5013; vol. 2 – LD 172 = BLP 5022), Milt Jackson LD 138, Horace Silver trio LD 176. Later on Blue Note was issued in the Jazz Sélection series (Clifford Brown, Gil Mellé and J.J. Johnson).

Ditto for Discovery.

Fantasy: first in Vogue LD series, but later on in the Swing series.

Pacific Jazz only in the Swing series; Contemporary and GNP only in the Jazz Sélection series with yellow CR, resp. white/blue GNP labels, the regular Jazz Sélection labels  being greenish.

12” (Swing incl. GNP, Contemporary and Jazz Sélection labels; all in the 30.001 series)

-Aladdin: Lester Young

-Contemporary: Barney Kessell, Sonny Rollins, Howard Rumsey

-Dawn: Zoot Sims, Paul Quinichette

-Debut: Miles Davis, Quintet of the Year (Massey Hall), Jazz Workshop (4 trombones)

-Dial: Bird

-GNP: Clifford Brown/Max Roach, Tenors West/Giuffre, Frank Morgan

-Pacific Jazz/Jazz West Coast Anthologies: Jack Montrose, Art Blakey, Mulligan, Bob Brookmeyer, Chico Hamilton, the Mastersounds; JWC Anthologies, vol 1-3 (see note end of this article)

-Transition: Donald Byrd with Blakey, Mobley.

Chapter 2. Henri Renaud on a shopping spree – New York 1954.

Vogue went one step further and sent one of their top artists, a French Al Haig oriented piano player, Henri Renaud, to New York to organize recording sessions with the New York school, with or without his own participation. He recorded his idols Al Haig and Duke Jordan each in their own settings. The trip was fruitful and produced seven LP’s:

Swing M 33.320: Henri Renaud All Stars: Bags and J.J. , Al Cohn, Percy Heath

Swing M 33.321: ditto, vol. 2

Swing M 33.322: Henri Renaud – Al Cohn quartet, Denzil Best, drums, Gene Ramey b.

Swing M 33.323 Duke Jordan trio

Swing M 33.325 Al Haig trio

Swing M 33.326 Oscar Pettiford sextet, Al Cohn, Kai Winding, Henri Renaud, Tal Farlow, Max Roach

Swing M 33.327 Henri Renaud Band: with Gigi Gryce, J.J., Al Cohn, Jerry Hurwitz, Curley Russell.

A few years later, a selection out of the above 7 LP’s appeared under Swing LDM 30.050 entitled “Wizard of the vibes” – Milt Jackson. A rather sorrow fate to this beautiful cross-Atlantic adventure. But these sessions will re-emerge in chapter 4!

Chapter 3. Recording local Paris and European talent.

Disques Vogue, with Metronome in Stockholm, Tempo and Esquire in London, were giving a chance to local talent and promoted them. This was a commercial risk, since many European collectors with a limited budget preferred the “real thing”, jazz by American artists. In general, the number of printed copies was low, that is why Eurojazz is so very expensive to collect.

To cover the European scene, Vogue started the “New sounds from……….-“ series:

New Sounds from England, Jimmy Deuchar, Vogue LD 130.

New Sounds from France: Henri Renaud, Vogue LD 131.

New Sounds from Sweden: Lars Gullin, Vogue LD 139.

New Sounds from Belgium: Bobby Jaspar, Vogue LD 143.

New Sounds from Germany, Hans Koller, Vogue LD 144.

The local Paris scene was very much alive and well represented on vinyl:

Henri Renaud with Bobby Jaspar play Gigi Gryce (a gem!) Vogue LD 174

Henri Renaud trio: Vogue LD 178

Bobby Jaspar’s « New Jazz » Swing M 33.333, M 33.338 and M 33.351

Martial Solal: Vogue LD 200 and Swing M 33.340;

Swing LDM 30.060 (solo); Swing LDM 30.099 (big band)

André Hodeir’s Jazz Group de Paris: Swing M 33.343 and Swing M 33.353

Henri Thomas (guitar): Vogue LD 210

Barney Wilen “TILT”: Swing LDM 30.058 (one of the most expensive records existing)

Fats Sadi Combo (vibes) : Vogue LD 212

Fats Sadi/Martial Solal quartet : Swing LDM 30.046.

Chapter 4. Return to the starting point. Lease of French Vogue material to US labels.

With this chapter the circle is round: France sends back French recorded jazz to the cradle of jazz, the USA. It is a puzzle to figure out how their policy has been, it is difficult to establish a logic pattern. So I will just take the licensees in alphabetical order.

Blue Note: they contracted the Clifford Brown – Gigi Gryce material and issued in 10”:

-5047- (ex Vogue LD 179)

-5048- (ex Vogue LD 175)

-5049- (ex Vogue LD 173)

-5050- (ex Disques Vogue, but issued in U.K. only as Vogue LDE 113)

-5051- (ex Disques Vogue, but issued in France on 12”, as contents of BLP 5050),

Further they issued, also in 10” format:

-5005- James Moody (= Vogue LD 018)

-5010- Max Roach/Kenny Dorham (from Vogue LD 014)

-5017- Dizzy Gillespie (from Vogue LD 077)

-5031- Wade Legge (= Vogue LD 133)

-5046- Lionel Hampton “Jazztime Paris” (from Vogue albums LD 166-168)

-5061 – Fats Sadi (= Vogue LD 212)

Contemporary: In correspondence dating back to the early sixties, Contemporary’s president Lester Koenig, gave me info on the following four 10” albums ex Vogue:

C2502 – Henri Renaud All Stars, Modern Sounds: France (= Vogue LD 131)

C2504 – Dizzy Gillespie (= Swing M 33.324)

C2507 – Mary Lou Williams ex Vogue U.K. LDE 022, also issued by Disques Vogue

C2512 – Martial Solal, Modern Sounds: France (= Vogue LD 200).

(C2519 (Martial Solal, vol.2 = Swing M 33.340), not mentioned by Lester, but printed in Contemporary’s Spring Catalog 1955, apparently has not been issued by Contemporary.)

C3502 12”- Hamp, Lionel Hampton Swings in Paris (from Vogue albums LD 166-168).

Fantasy: 3-201 – the Herdsmen play Paris (= Vogue LD 204 + 205)

Mercer: LP 1006 (ex LD 021/089)

Period: The Birdlanders # SLP 1211, 1212, 1213 (a selection from Henri Renaud’s NY sessions)

Pacific Jazz:

PJ 1210 – Gerry Mulligan “Paris Concert” (= Swing LDM 30.008)

PJ 1236 – Sidney Bechet – Martial Solal quartet with Kenny Clarke (= Swing LDM 30.065)

Various sources give Pacific Jazz (10”) LP 18 as the US equivalent of Swing M 33.325 – Al Haig trio. We have never seen evidence of the existence of PJ LP 18.

Pacific Jazz EP 4-17 is a curiosity: it says “A Vogue P.I.P Production, Paris, France” and was recorded in Stockholm, 1954. The title: Bengt Hallberg ensemble, featuring Lars Gullin. This EP album was neither issued in France, nor in Sweden!

Roost:

LP 414/LP 2214 – Dizzy Gillespie Paris Concert ex Swing M 33.310/Vogue LD 574-30

LP416 – Lee Konitz Jazztime Paris (= Vogue LD 169)

Conclusion: the mere existence of Vogue, their entrepreneurship, combined with a love for jazz, have enabled one generation of Europeans to get acquainted with the best of modern jazz, American, yes, 100%, but also European tinted, the best of both worlds. The writer of these notes has particular fond memories of the label: his first long play albums of Miles Davis, Clifford Brown and Chet Baker were on Vogue LD 122 [BLP 5012], resp. Swing 33.348 [PJ 19] and Swing 33.350 [PJ 9].  These and other albums opened a complete new panorama for the average European, and were available in any shop, just around the corner. Was not that fantastic? Merci Léon, merci Charles!

Compiled by Rudolf A. Flinterman                                         18/6/2010

Note regarding Jazz West Coast, An Anthology of California Music, vol. 2, JWC-501. The French equivalent on Swing LDM 30.078 is not identical for contractual reasons. On JWC-501, track 2 on side 1 is a Chet Baker Quartet version of “Summertime”, recorded in Paris by Barclay Records. Since Vogue p.i.p. could not release a Barclay track, an appealing solution was found: on LDM 30.079 the issued Chet Baker track on side 1:2, “Sweet Lorraine”, was taken from a 26/7/1956 Pacific Jazz session featuring Chet Baker with Art Pepper and Richie Kamuca, with Pete Jolly, Leroy Vinnegar and Stan Levey. This track was completely unknown at the time, no trace of it in Jepsen or in Bruyninckx. So that was a major discovery, which went unnoticed. The track showed up much later in 1989 on the Pacific Jazz CD “the Route”, produced by Michael Cuscuna, who wrote in the liner “Finally, in 1989, with the discovery (sic!) of “Sweet Lorraine”, all eleven tunes are finally under one roof”. The session was scattered on various US LP compilations (Playboy, JWC).

PDF Version of French Vogue Article

that this LP was issued late and there are no pressings with the New York address. So it is one more exception to the rule. If you click on this item, you should also look at the other items on eBay this week from Jazz Record Center. They always post interesting items and they are also a good gauge of the overall market.

“Put simply, there were special dies attached to the pressing machine, that held down the stampers for Side A and Side B during manufacturing.  These dies traditionally cut the deep groove into the label during a pressing.  In 1961 new dies were created that were more streamlined, holding down the stampers in place but putting the mere slight indentation into the label – what we see on modern pressings and call NO DG.

“These parts were interchangeable and compatible with the machines, so for the period

1961 to 1965 the one side-DG pressings occurred when an old, obsolete die was used on one side of the record and one of the new dies was used on the other side.  Similarly, we find late pressings that are DG, such as Night of the Cookers, caused by using leftover old dies. By 1966 when pressings were shifted entirely to the three Liberty national plants there were only NO DG disks because Liberty did not use any of the old, obsolete dies.

“The important thing here is to realize that it is merely a function of a small, accessory part and has nothing to do with the stampers or the pressing machines themselves. I often run into self-appointed experts who have built up a whole mythology about the relationship of the DG to the grooves, sound, etc., but it is merely an identifier caused by the use of these specific dies, mere attachments in the process that literally leave their mark on the finished disk.

“I had Bob Porter, the DJ/producer who has always lived in New Jersey, do some research for me on the Plastylite subject about ten years ago, and  he found a Russian-speaking contact who knew nothing about the history of the company he apparently inherited, but as far as I know they are long gone.  Blue Notes recently (say a Bird & the Bee or Al Green vinyl LP) are pressed by Caroline Distribution, a local company and of course RTI handles the mastering and pressings on the West Coast for the various competing reissue companies licensing Blue Note.

“The very cheap, low-quality issues you see in the marketplace, identifiable by the 304 Park Ave. South address on labels and jacket slicks, are produced by a New Jersey company named Scorpio Music. In my Blue Note research I accumulate as many Plastylite pressings as possible, often grabbing the defective or Poor quality copies other people eschew, and am still busy working on my own book – which documents all the identifiers of individual stampers by locating and describing the P in the runoff (its shape, and orientation relative to the constant Catalog Matrix No. from the Master) for each disk – a unique signature left by each individual A & B stamper in existence.  In the last two or three years I only rarely come across new (to me), unknown stampers, so I’m over the hump on that project.”

“Here’s some information on the Edges/Rims. The change from Flat Rim (aka Flat Edge) to Safety Lip occurred in 1957. It was in response to new industry standards, occasioned by the popularity of automatic changers, whereby disks were routinely stacked and would fall on each other, the way we recall handling 45rpm disks. To lessen the damage to the LPs, the Safety Lip, also called a Groove Guard by one of the companies, was created at the edge of each side of the disk to keep the actual surfaces of the two disks from touching each other when they came into horizontal contact. It also protected the needle, since

on a flat edge disk the needle can slip off the edge and drop down, hitting the platen when it is in Automatic turntable mode (you have to be a clutz to do this placing the needle at the beginning of the record manually!).

For Blue Note the changeover occurred during the 63^rd NEW YORK 23 label era. ALL of the original Lexington releases were flat edge, both for the 1500 and the 1200 series, but the latter 63^rd NEW YORK 23 albums were pressed and released after the switch to Safety Lip stampers, so they only exist in that format. I will get to the catalogue numbers in a minute.

What I discovered in my research was a very significant fact (which can be quickly verified by any collector by checking his collection of 1955-1958 era Blue Notes): The stamper itself causes the flat edge to occur on a disk, and likewise the Safety Lip, not some attachment or function of the press. So when Blue Note switched to Safety Lips they had to create all new stampers – both for repressing/reissues and for new releases. My ‘eureka’ moment for discovering this is when I compared the Runoff vinyl identification for each disk and found that NO flat edge Blue Note bears the same Runoff id of its stamper (namely the unique shape and positioning of the stamper’s inscribed P (for Plastylite) as a safety lip Blue Note of the same title! They are always different – new stampers had to be ordered for any safety lip pressing.

The catch is that the Old Stampers (flat rim stampers) for various titles were not thrown away immediately, but retained for a few months –then all were discarded. I ascertained this by correlating the various characteristics for each title to see what exists and what never existed, e.g., there is no such thing as a Blue Note flat edge disk with an R or INC on the label (characteristics introduced in 1959 after the label incorporated). Stereo was not introduced until 1959 so by definition no flat edge stereos exist at all. But within the mono sphere, it is impossible to find a NEW YORK USA disk with flat edge, or an INC 63^rd NYC inscribed label with flat edge.

The timing of the changeover is (approximately) as follows:

(1) November 1955: 12” LPs were introduced by BN, using the old 767 Lexington Ave. blank foreground labels previously used for 10” LPs. All pressings flat edge. No more 10” LPs in the U.S., although later reissues in that obsolete format for European sales were made.

(2) January 1957: 63^rd NEW YORK 23 labels were first printed, and flat edge disks pressed with them.  Already preprinted Lexington labels (for previously released older titles) were kept in stock and available for 2^nd pressings –retained indefinitely (Lexington labels appear even on some Liberty (no P) pressings 10 years after being printed for this reason).

(3) July 1957: Safety Lip stampers created, first used for the release of BLP 1562 (Horace) and BLP 1561 (Sabu). That same month the previously manufactured Lee Morgan 1557 was also released to the stores but it was still FLAT RIM, the final  flat disk issued by Blue Note.

(4) August 1957: The newly redesigned labels, inscribed 63^rd NYC, are introduced, first used for the release of Curtis Fuller 1567. As in #3 above, there was a coexistence with the old 63^rd NEW YORK 23 label based on when a title was PREPARED for release as opposed to its ACTUAL debut in the stores. NO 63^rd NYC label was ever used for a flat edge first pressing, though many show up on flat edge 2^nd pressings.

(5) By mid-1958: No more flat edge disks were pressed, even for reissues/late pressings. All new releases had been Safety Lip disks since 8/57, but many older titles continued to be pressed and sold using the leftover Flat Edge stampers for their manufacture. At some point in 1958 these Flat Edge stampers were discarded.

The claim in #5 is established by inference. I looked through all the anomalies and they are mainly identifiable by FLAT EDGE DISKS bearing the 63^rd NYC label. No original Blue Note first pressing was ever released in this format, combining 63^rd NYC label on a flat edge disk. All such specimens occurred by using the in-stock flat edge stampers for an older title, but combining that with a newly-printed 63^rd NYC label for that title –for popular records the need to replenish the labels was there. Among the many examples of these odd birds are notably the Monk LPs 1510 and 1511, both of which exist 63^rd NYC flat edge. Others in this category include 1201, 1504, 1512, 1514, 1518, 1521, 1531, 1539, 1540, 1542 (all of these were issued originally as Lex, years before), plus 1544, 1548 and 1554 (63^rd NEW YORK 23 originals).

Every Lexington Blue Note, ranging from 1201-1205 and 1501-1543, was initially issued flat edge.  Any Lexington seen with a safety lip is automatically a second pressing. Many of these titles (the more popular ones) were reissued as Lexingtons with safety lips using the new stampers created in 1958 and 1959. Had Blue Note (ever-frugal) retained the old stampers indefinitely, then such Lexington safety lip beasts would be few and far between, since recurring demand for new pressings would have been satisfied using the old stampers. By the time new stampers would be required the Lexington labels would have been used up.

I’ve already listed all the catalog numbers issued Lex flat rim. The 63^rd NEW YORK USA flat rim original first pressings are: 1544-1550, 1554 and 1557. There are other 63^rd NEW YORK 23 flat disks that are 2^nd pressings (following Lex originals) such as the familiar 1502, 1503 and 1534.

The 63^rd NEW YORK safety lip original first pressings are: 1551-1552, 1555-1556, 1558-1559, 1561-1563, 1565, 1575-1576 and the anomalies 1568 and 1577 which were issued with that label on one side only (!).

To understand these strange patterns you have to note carefully the step-by-step process of each record going from recording session to final release to stores, with various delays along the way causing the discrepancies. This was especially the case with most Volume 2 records –often unreleased for a year or two after the Volume 1 came out, but assigned a catalog number consecutive with Volume 1 and given initial preparation (mastering, design) back with #1. Delayed release of 1516 caused it to have its cover constructed in a new fashion, not matching its peers’ covers (much to the consternation of Japanese collectors).  Put simply, jacket for 1516 looks like the jacket of 1546, NOT its close-by numbered brethren –it lacks the Gakubuchi frame lines across the top and spine on front.  Delay of 1597’s release caused all the disks to be made without the dg, which was no longer the norm when it finally debuted to stores in October 1961 (when Midnight Special 4078 debuted), more than 3 years after the release of 1596. Its first pressing back in 1958 BEFORE it was shelved comprises only a handful of copies. Such delays occurred right through the Liberty era, causing the odd look and characteristics of many albums such as Andrew!!! 84203 and Delightfulee, Lee Morgan 4243 & 84243.”

The post Blue Note Flat Edge: All You Need To Know first appeared on jazzcollector.com.]]> https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/blue-note-flat-edge-all-you-need-to-know/feed/ 6 2464 https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/twelve-tips-to-collecting-blue-note/ https://jazzcollector.com/blue-note/twelve-tips-to-collecting-blue-note/#comments Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:36:34 +0000 http://jazzcollector.com/?p=1987 One of our Jazz Collector readers found a blog post somewhere on the Internet with some advice about collecting Blue Notes. It was written by [...]