Quick question from a reader: A black label pressing of John Coltrane Giant Steps, Atlantic 1311, with no deep groove. Black label, mono, no DG. If it’s not an original pressing, what is it? I’m not asking this as a quiz: I’m asking to find the answer.
The Blue Note information provided by Larry Cohn has been invaluable and yet, it seems, there is always more to learn. We noticed this tidbit in a posting by Fred Cohen at the Jazz Record Center, which has a new auction on eBay this week: Wayne Shorter, Adams Apple, Blue Note 8232. This is listed as an original mono pressing with the Liberty label. Under normal circumstances you would expect this to be a New York USA label, based on the catalogue number. However, Fred points out
Last week one of our readers asked about deep grooves and flat edges. Another reader reached out to the Blue Note expert Larry Cohn for the answers. Last week we posted the answer about the Blue Note flat edge LPs. Here is Larry’s response on the deep groove. Thanks to Larry for being so generous with the information and to Don-Lucky for reaching out.
“Put simply, there were special dies attached to the pressing machine, that held down the stampers for Side A and Side B during manufacturing. These dies traditionally cut the deep groove into the label during a pressing. In 1961 new dies were created that were more streamlined, holding down the stampers in place but putting the mere slight indentation into the label – what we see on modern pressings and call NO DG.
“These parts were interchangeable and compatible with the machines, so for the period
We have the full, complete, unassailable answer to all questions about Blue Note and the flat edge, thanks to the Blue Note expert Larry Cohn and Don-Lucky for reaching out to Larry. We will also be posting Larry’s comments on the deep groove as well. Here’s the information on the flat edge:
“Here’s some information on the Edges/Rims. The change from Flat Rim (aka Flat Edge) to Safety Lip occurred in 1957. It was in response to new industry standards, occasioned by the popularity of automatic changers, whereby disks were routinely stacked and would fall on each other, the way we recall handling 45rpm disks. To lessen the damage to the LPs, the Safety Lip, also called a Groove Guard by one of the companies, was created at the edge of each side of the disk to keep the actual surfaces of the two disks from touching each other when they came into horizontal contact. It also protected the needle, since
Sorry I haven’t posted in a couple of days. Was stuck in a snowstorm without my computer. It was like being cut off from civilization. Anyway, I’m back and will soon get caught up on all I’ve missed in the Jazz Collector world. In the meantime, one of our readers posts a question for our readers: What is the derivation of the deep groove and the flat edge? Where they technical considerations that were later abandoned as the technology shifted? Were they specific to certain labels and pressing factories? It’s a good question and I’m sure searching deep on Google may provide an answer, but perhaps we can provide a shortcut and fodder for interesting conversation by asking it here. So, to all, whither the deep groove and the flat edge?
Duonri reminded me that I didn’t include this record from Nautiluso in the list: Jackie McLean, The New Tradition, Ad Lib 6601. This was listed in M- condition and wound up selling for $4,036, the highest price we’ve ever recorded for a jazz record on the Jazz Collector Price Guide. So I went back to the original listing in order to record it, and I noticed something I hadn’t noticed before: The seller says this one has the RVG in the deadwax? The question I ask: Is this possible — does an original pressing of The New Tradition have the RVG in the deadwax, or did he just make that up? I would have looked in my own collection for the answer but, unfortunately, I sold my copy of The New Tradition for a mere $400 nearly 20 years ago. Many of you may have heard this story before, but I sold a bunch of my rarest records in one shot so I could buy a boat. Six months later
I was just posting an old Joe Newman RCA album on eBay and came across the following pseudonyms: Phil Ffunque on alto and Jimmy O’Heigho on trombone. Pretty easy to figure out, but I won’t spoil the fun. My favorite is still Buckshot La Funke from Here Comes Louis Smith, Blue Note 1584.
Without looking it up, who are William Huddleston and Theodore C. Cohen?
Jason asks the following Norgran-related question:
“Al — I recently picked up two copies of Stan Getz / Interpretations #2 on Norgran. Here’s a question I haven’t been able to answer though. The label on the first lp is printed with a slightly smaller font and reads “Norgran Sales Corp.” at the bottom. The vinyl also feels slightly lighter than the second LP. The second LP reads “Jazz at the Philharmonic, Inc.” at the bottom and the vinyl feels more like slate in terms of weight. Other than that, the LPs are identical. Given the attention collectors give to what a label says, how it’s printed, etc., I was wondering if you or anyone on your site could add to what little info I have in terms of the significance of the variant labels. I also find it odd that such meticulous care is given to detailing the variations among certain labels (i.e. Blue Note), but others like Norgran seem to be ignored. Thanks for your time. — Jason”
So I looked through my collection and found my copy. That’s mine in the picture.
Geraint apologizes in an earlier comment for mentioning another seller’s auction on this site. No reason to apologize — actually, I really appreciate it when you share other listings on Jazz Collector. The whole idea is to create a community where we share information, so please feel free. The only thing I’d prefer not taking place is the out and out bashing of eBay sellers, simply because I don’t want the site to be misused by someone who may have an axe to grind. However, if you spot sellers who are consistently inaccurate or deceptive in their listings, that to me is fair game, focusing on the listings. It’s been gratifying because I’ve been offline for a couple of days and the comments are continuing to roll on even when I’m not putting up new posts myself. Keep it up, everyone, we’re all doing good work.
