The Great Jazz Vinyl Countdown, Ad Infinitum
Finally, the real deal.
To answer some of your post pressing questions. Yes, those are many of my records on the current Carolina Soul eBay auction. Seeing the actual listings makes it pretty clear to me one of the reasons why Jason and I weren’t able to strike a deal: We were grading the condition of the records on a different curve. That wasn’t the only reason, but it must have played an important factor. As a collector and former seller on eBay, I was grading the records quite a bit differently than Jason and his team, who are admittedly more in touch with today’s marketplace. Some of the obvious examples are ones I’ve written about here. Like the Jutta Hipp and Zoot Sims record on Blue Note and the Donald Byrd on Transition. I know that I got those records from the Bruce M. West collection in Baltimore, and I am pretty sure those records weren’t played more than two or three times. When I listened to them, once each, they were clean. In my collection, I had graded the vinyl condition at M- or VG++ at worst.
On the current auction, the condition of the Jutta Hipp vinyl is listed as VG. So is the Donald Byrd. Yes, I was surprised. My sense is that overall Carolina Soul is much more cautious and conservative in their grading than I would be, both as a collector and a seller on eBay. I don’t question them because they know their business, they are much closer to the market, and they know what issues other collectors may have with certain records. So, if I were to offer advice to anyone thinking about bidding on the records, go with their grading and not my descriptions here at Jazz Collector. But I think it is safe to assume that they are pretty conservative graders so, hopefully, auction winners will be pleasantly surprised.
The other factor in our failing to make an outright deal was that I modified the package that I was offering. To be clear, we had never made an agreement on the phone or on email. It was always going to be based on me deciding on the final package and Jason and Nate coming to view the records personally. It was conceivable they could have driven all the way from Durham to The Berkshires and driven back with nothing. It was also conceivable they could have driven back with a van full of records.
In the final package, I pulled out some of the Blue Notes and Prestiges that I had originally intended to sell, including most of the 10-inch pressings. Got cold feet looking at the covers. I also pulled back all of the Mosaics after The Lovely Mrs. JC reminded me that many of them were birthday presents and, also, she thought they looked really nice on the shelves in our living room. So, what I originally thought would be 6,000 or even 7,000 records, was probably around 5,500. And the balance between original collectibles from the 1950s and 1960s vs very nice records from the 1970s and 1980s (as well as nice reissues), skewed a bit differently than I had originally expected.
To answer some other questions and comments:
I have never talked about specific prices, either buying a collection or, in this case selling a portion of my own collection. I feel like it would be disrespectful to the people I’m doing business with. Perhaps I’m going too far in even talking about the amounts of records in the way that I do. The reality in this case is that the only people who know what was in the package are Jason, Nate and me, so I don’t even see how the asking price would be illuminating or even relevant. But, either way, I’m not talking about it.
Similarly, I feel like I share quite a lot of myself here on the site. I go as far as I feel comfortable and I generally try to be honest with my feelings and not too guarded. Sometimes I realize I’ve shared more than I wanted and I pay the price for being too open. That’s why I appreciate supportive comments such as the ones by Daryl, Lennib, Peter, Clifford and others. Thank you. It’s also why I try to take the high road when someone is consistently negative.
Regardless of my feelings about being open or being guarded, the records are on sale for all of the public to see and for Popsike to record for all eternity. Except that not every record in the current auction is from my collection. Plus, there are some records that have been held back and will be on future auctions.
I still love Moanin’. Great solos, and I’ve always liked the way that Lee Morgan hands off to Benny Golson with a phrase that he repeats. I mention this on the radio show I taped last week. Still waiting for final approval from the station on when/if it will air and when/if it will be available on the internet so I can share it here. Stay tuned.
In his way, KC Ken finally apologized. Apology accepted.
I am not going to be obsessively watching the auction or writing about it obsessively. I feel comfortable that I am in good hands with Carolina Soul and feel like I’ve built a nice rapport with Jason. But when I do write about it again, which I will, at least the pictures I use will be from the actual collection, such as the picture of Byrd Blows Beacon Hill that goes with this post.
Finally, Shades of Redd. I may be going through an existential crisis, but I haven’t lost my mind quite yet. So, yes, I am keeping my original pressing of Shades of Redd. My Japanese reissue as well. And a United Artists pressing.
I’ve bought a lot from Carolina Soul over several years – because I’ve learned to like their grading. I’ve been very satisfied – with only one or two exceptions.
I believe that by grading downwards the claims are avoided. And the number of customers will increase and they already will know the records will be much better than in the description.
Yeah, agreed. Also, sometimes even I overgrazed albums I’ve lived with for decades — the familiarity glosses over certain imperfections. That’s life!
I recommend everyone take a look at the auction asap, bc it’s a thrill to see those records with $8 or $9 next to them.
Overgraded not overgrazed. Dang autocorrect.
I think if one’s been collecting for 30+ years it’s going to happen re:grading. I’ve pulled out records from my collection that either were in better shape then I remembered or, more often, worse shape then I recalled.
As for the numbers of course it’s a private matter but I’m just naturally curious about these things. Having been involved in a near collection buy that got swooped by a local store as well as knowing a friend who sold his amazing jazz collection to Euclid many years ago I am privy to a bit of these dealings and numbers and what goes on.
Carolina Soul do undergrade, a VG record from them is most people’s VG+
Looking at the list, and reading this column regularly, it’s amazing (and quite humbling) to me how much of a novice collector I really am! I have never heard of so many of these, or at least never seen them in stores I have haunted for the last 7-8 years. I have well over 1000 jazz records and there are still so many to find!
As I said yesterday, I don’t expect those numbers to stay at $8 over the course of the week, just as I don’t expect the number of watchers to stay at one (me). Besides, some buyers never bid until the final seconds anyway. LJC admits to sniping. I don’t.
Regardless of the established guidelines, record grading is an affair of approximations coupled with what we are willing to live with. As far as sellers I trust can count them in one hand, and even then, some of them are not consistent, but they take records back, like Carolina Soul.
Glad to hear you kept the Shades of Redd 🙂
Good luck in the sale…not that you’ll need it.
Having just celebrated my 25th year on EBay, I am looking forward to bidding on some of the records. My first thought about their Gradings was that “Al would have been more particular when first purchasing them.” I also am using Popsike to get an idea of the 2022-23 selling prices of those I am interested in.
Time flies! I joined eBay in March of 1998 but a friend of mine joined in 1997 even. eBay was really fun and easy to use back then…over time it became more and more difficult to sell on there unfortunately.
I for one do appreciate your honest posts on jazzcollector, it’s personal, sympathetic, correct and always
with a tongue in cheek… as a jazzcollector and jazz fan i can relate to your stories and confessions.
Thank you for sharing Al
I wish you best of luck with the sale of your little friends!
(please give my compliments to the lovely Mrs. JC for preventing you from selling your birthday-mosaics and have regretted it the rest of your live)
In my experience CS under grades by at least a “+” if not a full grade. IE their “VG” is generally a “VG+” or “EX” upon receipt. However their reputation is spreading and they are among the preferred vendors who receive top of the market bids on Ebay.
Aloha Al, thank you for this jazz site and sharing your experiences with us. I think numbers that you and Carolina Soul discussed can stay private, especially in an open forum such as this. What I would like to know if possible, what typically are the consignment fees and does that include everything on the seller side: shipping costs, ebay taxes and fees, etc. I ask because not only have I thought about contacting CS in the past for myself but I help with seniors as well. Many have record collections and if I can get them in touch with a CS type that is helpful as many of these people have additional care costs, etc. I don’t want some “used car salesperson” type coming in and paying pennies on the dollars then flipping them for $100’s/$1000’s of dollars when that could have gone to helping the original owner. I’m all for free market enterprise but can’t stand those that take advantage of others. Thank you again. Mahalo!
It’s too bad that an experienced seller feels obligated to undergrade, presumably for fear of incurring negative feedback. Better to state the condition truthfully and accurately.
Plenty of nice records on Ebay ,thanks for sharing your journey Al, if this auction is successful for CS, i;m sure he will have no problem buying the other records
Thank you Maarten. The good feelings are mutual. 🙂
Kyle, in my experience, Carolina Soul is taking care of the shipping costs, eBay fees, eBay taxes, etc., but I can’t speak for everyone. I have a feeling Jason at Carolina Soul may be looking at these posts and comments (just a feeling), so if my feeling is accurate perhaps he would like to add something.
My experience with Carolina Soul is different. I’ve found that their grading varies widely from purchase to purchase; sometimes over, sometimes under. It had gotten so bad that I didn’t buy from them at all for about a year. Grading consistency is much better lately, however, but the situation has not resolved itself. Maybe one of the folks grading was replaced or trained better – I don’t know. They are generous on returns so if I’m really unhappy I just ask to send the record back. I should note that lately I buy from them two to three times per month so I have a fairly large sample to reference. I should also note, and to be fair, that they are selling about 1000 or so records per week, so there is a lot more opportunity for error than a seller who’s only moving about 100 or so per week.
Aloha Al, thank you for your reply. I appreciate your feedback. Everybody has a story as you know when it comes to this wonderful music, how one got started in building their library, etc. I’m blessed to know many still alive from the early days of bop, that have mentored me and others, that now are thinning down their collections. I told one friend, that blessed me with some of his records he purchased as a young man in the 50’s and 60’s that I always want to be fair in prices to him when he has something that he thinks I will cherish. He has many of the main ones, hard to get that you’ve brought up here and took such care of his vinyl. I want him to get fair market value if possible for the LPs he’s willing to let go, so it helps him with living expenses and care costs. I really hope this Carolina Soul experience works out well for you as I may tell my friend this could be a good option for him too. Sorry to ramble, I really appreciate you going through this, not easy to do and allow us to be apart of the journey as it is helping many as well. Mahalo!