Why Do We Collect?
Why do we collect? I’ve been giving that a lot of thought lately, trying to figure out what to do with all of my stuff and trying to determine what is worth keeping – and why – and what isn’t. So along comes this interesting article from The New York Times on the very topic. The author, Philipp Blom, is a cultural historian, writer and journalist who lives in Vienna. Here’s the article below. Here’s a link as well, so you can see all of the comments on The New York Times site: Objects of Desire and Dreams
Why do we amass stuff we don’t need? Not all collecting is art collecting and no real collector would acquire things just as a status enhancement or investment. Real collectors are after something else. The objects in their collection are taken out of use, removed from circulation. The real value of a piece lies not in its auction price, but in the importance it has in the collection.
No true devotee would buy a T-shirt worn by Mick Jagger during a concert, chuck it in the washing machine and wear it. A Mick Jagger T-shirt is no longer a T-shirt, it’s a
connection to the world of Sex and Drugs and Rock ‘n Roll, a form of genius, a dream. Collected objects are like holy relics: conduits to another world. They have shed their original function and become totems, fetishes. Collecting by its very nature is animist and transcendental.
The objects and their organization bind us to something larger than ourselves, and as religion was born out of a fear of death and the wish of eternal life, collecting expresses the same fundamental urges. There are two corresponding impulses in collecting. One, epitomized by Casanova and Don Giovanni, show the erotic side of the object as fetish: the fury of conquest exhausting itself in the act (acquired objects are no longer as important as those still to be conquered) and living on only in Casanova’s Memoirs and Don Giovanni’s catalog of women, faded records of past glory.
The second, totemic impulse brings to mind a pharaoh’s tomb. Carefully arranged around the sarcophagus are representatives of the king’s possessions, of the wealth and the resources he needs to live on in the afterworld. Their presence is symbolic, but it assures survival. It is remarkable how many collectors chose to be immortalized through their collections, either by naming and donating them, by a continued presence as founder’s portrait or statue, or even as a wax work.
Like relics, collected objects are keys to another world and guarantors of immortality. That is why our urge to collect is impossible to ignore: it touches the very depths of who we are.
I think about this a lot as well. I separate in my mind my love of music and my drive to collect. They are not separate, but I know many music lovers who do not collect or even own records. I personally would be lying if I said that the reason I collect is because I love music. That’s the reason I collect the music I love(I don’t collect rare punk records, etc) but love of music is not the only reason one collects. I’ve often heard that people who collect originals are looking for the best quality. On some level this makes sense to me, but in a world with many hi quality audiophile reissues it’s hard for me to be convinced that the originals are always(or even often) better. I have enough duplicates that for listening, and expensive quality reissue often sounds a good bit better than the original. Not universally true, but I think the majority of people could listen to an audiophile reissue and original back to back and would prefer the reissue. They probably wouldn’t want to shell out the price for either but would choose the reissue due to what I believe are a variety of factors, including lower noise levels, less distortion, and less sound problems from damage. Getting back to the point, if my only reason for collecting records was fidelity, I would have more reissues and less originals. As it stands now, I have plenty of both but I wouldn’t think of myself as a collector of HQ reissues or CDs. I just buy them often, but they aren’t special to me, just a way to transport the music to my ears.
So personally, I don’t “collect” records because of the better fidelity or love of the music. It’s a factor sure, but there is something else. There is that feeling I get when I hold a rare jazz record. It transports me to somewhere else, something beyond what I could get from downloading/cd/reissue. I can’t explain it, but I will keep trying.
It may also be true that, I’m a little crazy in when it comes to being a jazz record collector but at least here I’m in good company!
Interesting article!. Blum makes very pertinent observations concerning the totem value of collectibles. How about the “Holy Graal” with which some sellers promote their merchandise? This is in the same vein. Collecting is a cult in which the irrational fetish devotion plays a dominant role. This is most obvious in stamp collecting. The urge of “must have”, otherwise an old stamp is totally useless. One can at least put a solid first pressing mono album on the turntable and enjoy it.
Just noticed a BLP 1568 for sale by jazz5060, which is now at $ 3101.67, with some days to go, and “reserve not met”. Speaking of totems!
This is Interesting… The accumulation of STUFF
for me makes me secure, without the nice things I choose to hoard…well that just scares me.
Empty and minimal…agghhh!! I need these nice connections to the past.
Dear Al and readers,
Happy New Year from England. I just stumbled across this marvellous site in the last few days and have already spent far more hours here — and not working — than can genuinely be regarded as respectable or sensible.
The whole collecting ‘gene’ debate is an interesting one. I was talking to my dealer of choice recently (a good man and a hard worker who still sends out monthly lists of excellent value jazz vinyl to his devoted customers — I have no financial etc etc [usual disclaimer] — you can check his website if you feel moved to do so at http://www.jazzhouserecords.co.uk/) and asked him (and his blog readers) a question that I felt received a disappointing airing. I’ll try again here: when is a collector NOT a collector.
By that I mean, what distinguishes a collector from someone who simply can’t stop buying and listening to records?
I’ll give you a parallel if not an actual example., Having spent much (too much) of my earlier working life as a book seller, books are in my bloodstream. I read voraciously and buy greedily.
I can’t move for books (in fact, I’m trying to reduce my vinyl collection because I need the space for books — more specifically, I need the space in order to try and get a proportion of the books currently on the floor onto shelves).
But I do not consider myself a ‘book collector’ as such. First editions (except in a slight, passing way) are of relatively little interest. High-value books are impractical — I like to read and scrawl in the margin and lug books back and forth to work in my messenger bag and read on the bus.
So, my question is this. How many people obsessively reading the JC site consider themselves hardcore collectors. And how many are just vinyl obsessives but not true collectors? And where — and how — do *you* draw the dividing line?
Al, I thoroughly enjoy your witty, literate, informative posts and I wish you many more of them.
Best wishes,
Alun
a sort of preservation of the Art we loved in the past and will love in the future.
something important that could be lost if guardians (collectors) wouldn’t dedicate their efforts in keeping it alive, for us and the whole mankind.
Parker, Trane, Monk, Bud, Pres are dead but their music lives forever in our collections as in our hearts.
in his last record, Eric Dolphy said: “when you hear music, after it’s over, it’s gone in the air: you can never capture it again”.
we, the collectors, are passionate people who struggle for keeping’ alive what has gone in the air, to keep our beloved music in our ears, today and tomorrow and forever.
Interesting discussion. We would need more contributions (Mattyman, Maarten, Michel, where are you?).
Mike “that feeling when I hold a rare jazz record”
Alun “hard core collectors vs vinyl obsessives”
Adamski “I need these nice connections to the past”.
Where am I situated? I find myself in Adamski and Mike and am definitely no hard core collector, though I must admit I was. I am moderately vinyl obsessed with a link to MY past.
At the moment I am repairing my mistakes of the past, when I ditched my late fifties mono originals for early sixties stereo copies. I am getting there, but the price is high. So the obsession is limited to mono vinyl and directly related to my past.
weg
Interestingly, although the question is posed differently (what makes a collectible collectible?), there are comments in this thread that very much help to illumine this debate:
https://jazzcollector.com/features/what-makes-a-collectible-a-collectible/
I have been away for a while from this site and followed only passive but this issue is of very high interest for me. For me the real value of the medium consists of much more aspects than just the music…the colours, the labels, the art of the covers, also some patina and even the smell of history. Alltogehter this makes listening to a record a much bigger pleasure for me than just the music from a new repress. And besides listening the “having” is also very nice… But what I can examine is that I am also fine if a record is old but it does not have to be the first pressing. E.g. I have most of Miles Davis’ Prestige records – some first pressings but also some 2nd Bergenfield pressings. The pleasure with these 2nd pressings is almost as good as a first pressing for me…besides it saved a lot of money.
I was watching “The Pickers” on tv the other night. For those unfamiliar with the show, it features two guys who travel all over the US and try to buy junk/antiques from people. One of the guys mentioned that the difference between a collector and a hoarder is that a collector will part with his stuff, while a hoarder gets upset if they have to part with it.
I like jazzmusic an sich, so i listen it on cd, mp3 and records.I listen to all kind of jazzlabels, but i will ONLY buy records Blue Note (series 1500-4400). No other label or records. (i have exactly one: Art Farmer-to sweden with love, Atlantic, my favourite non BN). I buy those records because it’s my favourite jazz, but ALSO because of the covers and what blue note stands for.. “cool”,.. and, because i am a snob…-)and because you COULD collect them ALL.That is impossible with prestige.Blue Note is compact.
So,would that make me a collector?. My budget only makes me a moderate collector.I have original BN’s, but also japanese and liberty). If i see a original giant steps for $15 i probably don’t buy it, although i listen to it on cd/mp3.
Everythig that one collects and can’t eat is irrational. I know me buying BN’s is irrational.I can spend my last money on it and don’t eat..ha! And then there are periods that i ask myself: how could you EVER spend that kind of money on Blue Notes, and i play classical music for a month, thinking from now on i stop buying, enough is enough. Three weeks later you see me sweating in a recordstore, beggin’ the owner for a discount if i buy all seven records at once… 😉
So for me it is more about the physical albums and the “struggle to complete” than it is about keepin’ the music alive (internet,mp3,cd do a good job for that)..No, collecting is not about the music, it’s about ME
I like jazzmusic an sich, so i listen it on cd, mp3 and records.I listen to all kind of jazzlabels, but i will ONLY buy records Blue Note (series 1500-4400). No other label or records. (i have exactly one: Art Farmer-to sweden with love, Atlantic, my favourite non BN). I buy those records because it’s my favourite jazz, but ALSO because of the covers and what blue note stands for.. “cool”,.. and, because i am a snob…-)and because you COULD collect them ALL.That is impossible with prestige.Blue Note is compact.
So,would that make me a collector?. My budget only makes me a moderate collector.I have original BN’s, but also japanese and liberty). If i see a original giant steps for $15 i probably don’t buy it, although i listen to it on cd/mp3.
Everythig that one collects and can’t eat is irrational. I know me buying BN’s is irrational.I can spend my last money on it and don’t eat..ha! And then there are periods that i ask myself: how could you EVER spend that kind of money on Blue Notes, and i play classical music for a month, thinking from now on i stop buying, enough is enough. Three weeks later you see me sweating in a recordstore, beggin’ the owner for a discount if i buy all seven records at once… 😉
So for me it is more about the physical albums and the “struggle to complete” than it is about keepin’ the music alive (internet,mp3,cd do a good job for that)..No, collecting is not about the music, it’s about ME
Happy new year guys !
…I think this is a topic that tends to arise with the dawn of each new year here in the Jazz Collective. Probably from a direct result of all the holiday season gorging, and all that mass consumption undertaken in the past month. The overindulgence on gifts, over-eating and over-drinking leave us wondering why we really need half the stuff we have, and going on crash diets in the new year, and filtering our collections.
It reminds me of all the old tales about parents catching their kids smoking cigarettes, and punishing them by locking them in a room with a full carton and only letting them out once the kid has smoked them all… As a result, the kids usually get so “green” they never want to touch another cigarette ever again. (…Or adversly they become hopelessly addicted to them in the process !) In either event, we feel the need to purge at this time of year. Especially when looking at our own prized collections taking up valuable real estate.
I have often found the Jazz Collective a great place to justify what we do… Almost as a support group of enablers at an AA meeting. (ie: Confessions of a Vinyl Addict) Are we addicts ? Hoarders ?? Or a community of like minded individuals dedicated to collecting, cataloguing and archiving this amazing art form in hopes of ensuring its survival for future generations ? I like to think we are that later. Especially now, before the few remaining ties to the golden age disappear forever.
On the other hand, collecting can certainly fill a void in one’s life, and can become as addictive as any narcotic out there to the point of becoming a hoarder… I am certainly the first to admit I have a music addiction. After all, I love collecting Jazz, I love discussing Jazz and I love going to see and hear live Jazz as much as possible, to the point of driving up to 8.5 hours to catch a show at times.
Collecting is not just a connection to the past masters, it is a way of learning first hand about the music we love, and gaining further insight and inspiration between the live experiences on as many levels as possible.
After Al began downsizing a few years back, I began to ask myself why I collect Jazz vinyl… In my mind, original pressings were a connection to the golden age. They were also a way to enjoy a wide variety of music that in most cases may not be available or re-issued in other formats to date.
The key to defining ourselves as collectors is to be selective in what we collect, with a clearly defined ‘modus operandi’ in the ways we go about filling and cataloging our individual collections, as opposed to accumulating quantity over quality. Some are investment buyers, and some collect only what they love and take the time to enjoy the process, the journey and the collection itself.
These days, my collective aspirations are simple:
(1.)I only collect first pressings.
(2.)I don’t worry about trying to collect mint condition vinyl.
(3.)Any vinyl with a really great cover or that has an original autograph usually gets framed so I can enjoy them as art pieces on a daily basis as well. (In most cases, the ones behind the UV glass, will often get rotated and played regularly to keep the gallery walls fresh…)
(4.)Long term goal… Complete catalogue of original pressing Blue Notes, but I still continue to buy albums, labels or artists based on my mood.
These days the idea of preserving it is really just to ensure that I will be able to get as much enjoyment out of my albums as long as possible while they are in my ward. After that, it might be nice to donate them to a larger Jazz Archive to ensure the collections survival, who knows…
As I have said before here on Jazzcollector, I have tons of Jazz on CD. And I have an enormous amount of seventies funk vinyls in my record cabinet. But I only started collecting Jazz vinyl about two years ago. There’s a story to it. I vigorously collected and still collect seventies funk on vinyl: I’m a child of the seventies and besides the fact that I love the music, whenever I lay hands on a true 1st funk bomb from, say, 1973, I buy a time capsule. It’s everything about that record for me at that moment. The smell, the feeling, the looks, the obvious quality of the product, the music and that weird feeling of being incredibly familiar with it even though I was still a toddler back then… I will copy and paste something that I once emailed to London Calling about this to make it more clear. Here it is: “They say there are things that money can’t buy, but that feeling you have when you hold a true 1st or o.g. Blue Note in your hand is indescribable. Grab that BN from your shelf and just hold it. Smell those five decades of joy that the previous owner(s) had with it. Imagine the, in some cases, smoky living rooms throughout the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties of the ones that had it in their possession all those years. Maybe they played the record in the background when they had friends over and enjoyed a good meal with some great wines. That thick, luscious and luxurious looking Blue Note was also the silent witness of kids growing up, marital disputes, family get togethers, birthday parties and it passed through all global political turmoil unscathed. And now that Blue Note is in your hands and, eventually, on your turntable and in your ears. A humbling thought.” Last but not least: ever since my grandparents passed away I have noticed that the whole of the above applies so perfectly to how I look back on their life now. They were still young back then. Those originals were there when they walked this earth… I mean, I don’t know guys. Does any of the above make sense? I eat, sleep, breathe and work music. CDs, LPs, tapes even, what I have upstairs in my ‘man cave attic’ is a goldmine, a shrine, a sanctuary. Without it I would be miserable, unhappy and a horrible husband to be with. Charlie Parker, Art Pepper, Sonny Rollins, Lou Donaldson, Jutta Hipp, Paul Gonsalves, Don Sleet, Chet Baker, Jimmy Heath; all heavy weights and you haven’t even scratched the surface by mentioning only them, since we all know there’s such an incredible abundance of brilliant and superb Jazz artists. I wish I could have seen them in the flesh. I sometimes wish I lived during their peak years and maybe that unbearable yearning is the reason why I collect. But then still: I can try to explain it forever only to finally conclude that I can’t explain it! How ’bout that guys? 😉
Manmatty: what you write comes right from the heart. When I met those guys (Lee Morgan, Art Blakey, Trane, Konitz,Max Roach and others) way back in 1958 and later, I felt these to be particular moments in my life. Still, I did not realize at the time that the Blue Note, Prestige and Riverside albums, which were readily available all over the place, would remain the only tangible proof of their greatness.
Happy New Year Manmatty & Rudolf: Great comments. I really enjoy this particular topic of discussion. Have you guys seen the new Woody Allen movie called “Midnight In Paris” by any chance ? Check it out if you haven’t already. In a roundabout way it really speaks to those of us that look back on the previous generations with longing, wishing we could have been a part of their art & culture at that moment in time. There is an interesting twist in the film that I think puts the concept of a proverbial “golden age” into perspective no matter what era we were lucky enough to have been born into.
@ Don-Lucky, I saw Midnight in Paris. A great film indeed, even if you’re -like me- not really into Woody Allen’s work. The twist you mention I think is best described when Adriana, the ’20s girl Owen Wilson likes so much, says: “I’m from the ’20s, and I’m telling you the golden age is la Belle Epoque.” -too bad Allen didn’t make Owen Wilson go back to the heydays of Jazz though 😉
yes, the woody allen movie says it all, about what people consider “a golden age”.
There is a difference between the ‘older’ people who saw the jazz live in the fiftie and sixties, and younger peple like Matty and me. Matty and I like something that is old-fashioned, something that has passed, but people like rudolf liked this music when it was new and modern/controversial. Where matty and me are looking back, the likes of rudolf where embracing the modern…
so, the next time it will be on the screens here, I will see “Midnight in Paris”. Btw, I think Maarten perfectly recaps my situation.
Exactly my point, Maarten and of course looking back in awe without forgetting the present! 😉
maybe I’m wrong, but: how many collectors here do follow present?
I don’t: non more time to go to concerts, to listen to radio programs, I don’t watch TV. Read and listen a lot instead.
I’m pretty sure I can still find something interesting and new for me in the past.
I’t’s true that some 25 years ago I had to interest myself into something’ different than jazz (classical), but I never stopped lovin’ jazz.
now I’m skipping classical for a full time jazz listening. I consider jazz, as an original art form, embalmed since early 70’s. no real new direction after Free. what I’d really like is to discover somethin’ different, I’m not satisfied with what I already know, even well played today but yesterday’s music.
I would like to be knocked by an unknown cat saying something I’ve never heard.
I don’t need a new Bird or a new Trane, I’ve got ’em.
please help me to know a different one.
in the mean time I’ll lay back to my beloved 50’s and 60’s.
first pressing….
Past, present and future…No matter how long we have been collecting, it isn’t hard to find something new to keep our interest. I am still watching, listening and learning as much as possible about this great art form, and that is why we never tire of collecting. There is always something new to learn, to buy and to listen to.
Dottorjazz: Depending on your taste, there are some great “young lions” out there these days that still have something new to say even if they are giving a nod to their past predeccessors. The last few years have seen the likes of Robert Glasper, Baptiste Trotignon and Avishai Cohen (etc.) really come into their own. Where as Nicholas Payton, Roy Hargrove, Joshua Redman, Ravi Coltrane and Terence Blanchard are out there keeping time and the art form alive. Not to mention all the living legends still with us and still touring like Sonny Rollins, Lou Donaldson, McCoy Tyner, Benny Golson, Ornette Colman, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Roy Haynes,Houston Person, Kenny Burrell etc. (Dave Brubeck is a given, but he recently stopped touring for the moment)
Jazz in my mind is all about the live experience, and each artist’s interpretations and improvisation upon the old standard time signatures. To be truly appreciated, it must be experienced at the moment of inception. Despite our best efforts to capture it, recordings have not yet been able to fully transcribe all the energy of a given session, or all the other intangibles of that moment in time that add to a truly inspired performance. Leaving us with all those gaps in time, and our collections. I “recollect” between sets by collecting our beloved LP’s…
dottor,
I’ve stated my opinion before and don’t want to beat a dead horse but there is a lot going on in the “Jazz” world today. The problem for most people is that there is too much influence of music outside of jazz onto current jazz. Just keeping with the names don-lucky mentioned(I could name others but his names are very good examples)there are some excellent players. But all of the players grew up with music beyond jazz and incorporate those elements from R&B, pop, electronic, etc. I’ve had the benefit of seeing Nicholas Payton live many many times in a variety of settings, as an example(we live relatively close). I can say he is the most technically talented trumpet player I’ve seen. Whether he is using music in a unique and new way, or is he doing something fresh could be debated. I definitely think so, he’s not regurgitating stale post bop, he’s taking off where that left off while acknowledging his historic influences(which are not all jazz artists). He’s just one example from Don-Lucky’s list, I do dig the others. I listened to a CD last night by Erik Friedlander called “Bonebridge”. I find that this band has a unique and interesting voice. There is a lot of very old folk feel to it, while it seems very modern at the same time. It’s not the greatest thing I’ve ever put on but it is unique, interesting, and fun to listen to. Now I could hear someone say that it isn’t “pure jazz”. I don’t really like those debates. I’m not certain what that means anymore. As an example, if a New Orleans jazz musician plays a show and does not acknowledge a mild R&B influence he/she is being dishonest. If you grew up there, it’s very difficult for the native music not to permeate your playing. So are they no longer playing jazz due to the R&B influence? These are questions I can’t answer.
I really enjoy the current jazz scene. I think it lacks the numbers and the talent of jazz of the 40s-60s but there is still enough there to keep me interested.
Dottore, the Italian Schema label has a lot of great artists on their roster and releases great material. A few recommendations: Nicola Conte (don’t forget to listen to the previews to the right of each title), Mario Biondi, Rosalia de Souza or another act on another label: Cesar’s Salad. There’s so many and sometimes it requires some serious time to let the moderner jazz ‘grow on you’, but maybe you should begin with the above mentioned Nicola Conte album. You’ll love it 😉
I saw Nicholas Payton when he was at Birdland a few months ago. He is really, really good. No one really knows about him, though. Such a shame.
@ Bill..I would not say that people don’t really know about Nick Payton. Those of us that have been “into it”, have been aware of him since he was a 15 year old kid in Nola trying to sound like Pops. There are many people still digging jazz.
Jazz has never truly been the “popular music”. Even though some argue this point, lets be honest. The minute that Rock and Roll was born, Jazz begin to become a form of music that has lived through it’s institutionalization. Without High Schools, Colleges, Service Bands,the LCJO, road bands, and the hundreds or so musicians performing keeping it alive, I believe that it would be deceased.
I have the personal property of Jimmy Smith that I’m selling. I have a inventory if any one is interested please email me at alleyesonmeshorty@yahoo.com.