Giant Steps: Black or Bulls-Eye or Both?
The real reason I was looking at the listings of bobdjukic was the copy he is selling of John Coltrane, Giant Steps, Atlantic 1311. This is a mono pressing with the bulls-eye label. Here’s what he says about the record: “Believed by many to be of the same vintage as the black Atlantic stereo label — in other words, as strangely as it sounds, one of two ‘co-equal’ first pressings.” This depiction is a new one for me, and I’m quite skeptical of its accuracy. A few years ago, I was scolded on this very site for purchasing a bulls-eye stereo copy of Giant Steps, even though I only paid $50. That’s my copy in the picture. The value has subsequently gone up. But this is the first time I’m hearing that anyone believes the bulls-eye and black labels are
of the same vintage. Indeed, someone on the listing has commented thusly: “FYI, there is nothing co-equal about this pressing as compared to the black. Black sounds way better.” To which the seller replies: “Could be. But these things are subject to perception and interpretation, not science. This goes way beyond the scope of my auction description.” Okay. I know the Jazz Collector community will sort this one out real quickly. So, friends, what do we say?
Well…of course it is not true, and the seller knows that. It is not the first time mr Bob plays with the truth, in order to make his items giant steps (how many 2nd Riverside are sold as first ? ) There are so many naive collectors on Ebay. For sure he will find the guy who wants to believe the bullseye/bullshit story.
I have no first had knowledge of the Atlantic label, since in my country Atlantic came via the U.K. London label.
There is a lot of magic about the bull’s eye labels, which were also present in Europe in the early sixties through Danish and French pressings.
This being said, the simultaneous existence of a black and bull’s eye product line seems highly improbable, to say the least. I never did any business with this Mr Djukic, but, I think, his sales talk must be taken for what it is: misleading and false.
I meant to say: “first hand knowledge….
Regarding sales ethics on EBay: a seller should give all the details, with photos, allowing the buyer to decide himself whether it is a first or original copy or whatever he is looking for. Any questions of first pressings, rarity etc. should be left at the sole discretion of the buyer, based on the data supplied by the seller. The old adagium “caveat emptor” remains more than ever a topical question these days.
I agree with Michel, there are many naive (and greedy) collector’s; I could be one of them;-)
that is why ebay should not be so overated as it is, because there will always be 10 people out of the 2 billion who uuse ebay, who are willing to pay 1000 dollar for 200 dollar record.
besides that, if I see a ebay-page like that from Bob, all colours of the rainbow, the shouting etc, i am always careful.
like Rudols says;ceveat emptor
does the black atlantic label realy sound better?
I went back into my files and found the original post of when I bought the bulls-eye label. I realized that there are still some of the early newsletters from 2004 that have not been transferred over to the current site, so I will spend time over my upcoming holiday to do so. Anyway, here’s the post from April 2004:
“Two readers gave us a hard time for buying a bulls-eye stereo copy of John Coltrane’s Giant Steps, Atlantic 1311. They pointed out that the original mono pressing has the black label and the original stereo pressing has the green label. We knew this. In our defense, however, we saw a bulls-eye copy selling on eBay for $99 and we assumed there was something interesting and/or noteworthy about this pressing. Apparently we were wrong.”
To close the debate,it eventually sold for 410…so Mr Bob, maybe right : it IS an original :-/
Michel: IMHO you are jumping too quickly to conclusions: the buyer may just think, upon the very persuasive sales approach of the seller, that he is bidding on the original first pressing.
This record exists with black label, so I tend to consider at least the mono bulls-eye label as second pressings.
But how about stereo copies? Has anyone ever seen a stereo copy on the light green stereo label? I have only seen stereo copies on the green/blue bulls-eye label, and I tend to consider them as original stereo pressings.
Kind regards, FLoris.
It makes sense that the FIRST mono pressing was in 1959 on the black label (but from my research the same stampers were used for the the mono “bullseye” labels so copy-to-copy variants could account for the sonic differences). BUT the stereo pressing is a completely different matter as no one has ever been able to produce a vintage, US green label pressing to my knowledge. My hypothesis is that that the mono came out first in 1959 but the stereo was first produced the next year on the current label of the time, the transitional “bullseye label”.
Just found your comments. I have a copy of Giant Steps with a light-green label and stereo marked in a black box above atlantic on the record. Could this possibly be the original stereo pressing?
very interesting find. This should be the original stereo pressing.
I have a SD1311 disk which was purchased in the 60’s. The label is Green and Red with a white strip in the middle. The Album cover has Stereo in black and reversed embossed (indented). The sound quality is good except for the piano which Atlantic alway somehow clipped. The question is this: The stereo is piano and coltrane on the left and the bass and drums on the right. Is that how it was recorded? Or was it a mono recording remastered for stereo. And – is this album worth anythng? Not a click or pop on any track.
Hi Eric,
Giant Steps was recorded in both mono and stereo. The green & red label was introduced in 1969 and continued on for around 20 years, these pressings in NM condition typically sell for $20 or less.