Comments on: Rudy Van Gelder, 1924-2016

By: Gregory The Fish

Gregory The Fish — Sun, 04 Sep 2016 15:01:01 +0000

mark, i like riverside, but when i am reminded, i do listen directly to double check, and though i don’t really notice when i’m not listening for it, i do feel like riversides shine less brightly than RVG’s usual work. but that could be confirmation bias. who knows?

By: Mark

Mark — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 21:09:10 +0000

I personally feel that many of those old Riversides do not sound that great. Musical gold of course but really wish Van Gelder could have recorded them :0

By: Steven

Steven — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 14:23:03 +0000

I’m glad the name of Roy DuNann was mentioned. His recordings for Contemporary are stellar and have a very “natural” sounding acoustic. When you consider some of the really iconic ones were recorded in a shipping warehouse its even more significant. They are warmer to my ears than RVG’s, but I think RVG was aiming for more immediacy and trying to get as close to the source of the sound as possible.

By: Rich DG Mono

Rich DG Mono — Sat, 03 Sep 2016 13:02:44 +0000

Ceedee: Loved your post, thanks for sharing! Would love to attend a memorial here in NYC if it comes into existence…

JazzCourier: Greetings and thank you for your post, it prompted me to do a little research a learn more about Roy DuNann’s discography. Yes, I agree that Roy DuNann had a great talent for recording jazz. It was a talent that many feel surpassed that of Van Gelder. But CMIIW, many of Roy DuNann’s stereo recordings from the ’50s had both horns on one side of the stereo spread and the center empty, right? That means that during piano solos the entire left and center of the stereo image is empty. It does sound like he eventually got a nice, wide stereo piano sound in the early ’60s, and I understand that you enjoy his mono, but I just thought I’d mention that. Do you enjoy Van Gelder’s mono at all?

For the sake of accuracy, Van Gelder almost always had the bass hard right with the drums prior to May 1959, but after that the bass came center and joined the piano in all his stereo mixes. Please also note that Van Gelder was a staunch and consistent supporter of his mono mixes, and that he had no appreciation for stereo during the bop era. It’s interesting because a lot of people criticize his stereo though it’s certainly not his fault that record labels down through the decades have gotten it wrong, marketing what Van Gelder would call the ‘inferior product’ when compared to the mono. But yes, I agree with you, that Van Gelder’s stereo is in a way less preferable because of that imbalance caused by splitting up the horns. It’s a trade off in a way: with stereo you get more ambience and perhaps detail/clarity, with mono you get a nice, full sound but less detail. IMHO mono was Van Gelder’s bread and butter.

I feel bad for Maureen. I understand that she was his assistant but I can only imagine you heckling her about nerdy stuff like that and boring her to death. 😉

PS: I’m a big fan of Elmo Hope, and I have been to the Jazz Standard. 🙂

By: Gregory the Fish

Gregory the Fish — Fri, 02 Sep 2016 14:06:33 +0000

clifford,

i’ve heard that. i think he’s an asshole but i like what he has done for many bands, many of which feel distinct to me, but that is not an uncommon concern.

By: Anders Wallinder

Anders Wallinder — Fri, 02 Sep 2016 06:46:51 +0000

Jazzcourier, well Rudy monitored quite long in mono and he did as many other engineers hard-panned reed soloists either left or right in the late 50s and 60’s. Piano is mono basically – dead center. “Imbalance”? Well for me it’s mucj like being in a unamplified club where the soloists are panned out on a stage so I have no real problem with that sound – however many connaisseurs prefer it all to be mono ,:9

By: Clifford

Clifford — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 18:36:18 +0000

@Gregory the Fish : I do but feel that his stamp became overused and put a similar sheen across dissimilar bands.

By: Gregory the Fish

Gregory the Fish — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 17:14:41 +0000

i like steve albini, clifford. do you not?

By: JAZZCOURIER

JAZZCOURIER — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 03:47:55 +0000

I will pick out some specifics this weekend and report back,but this is common on Most of the RVG stereo recordings that feature a quintet performance with two horns.If your speakers are at least six feet apart you will hear how the solo horn channel dominates the soundstage of the recording creating an unusual mis-balance. The “emptiness” in that one channel shifts the balance to the center( where the piano is ) and the channel where the horn is soloing.
Has to be a stereo recording.The mono recordings should play directly in the center between the two speakers,giving the illusion that no actual sound is coming from the speakers themselves,but living in the center with depth and space between all the instruments.That is when you know your speakers are set up right and doing the music justice.No knock on RVG,just a formula that seems to repeat itself and is exclusive to his BN recordings.
It was,and is common,for an engineer to mic and record the piano so the image will flow from speaker to speaker,from one side of the keyboard to the other,so that after the horn on that channel finishes it’s solo you would hear part of the piano image on that channel.With RVG recording the piano dead center it causes the focus to lean to the soloists channel.

By: Art Klempner

Art Klempner — Thu, 01 Sep 2016 00:43:17 +0000

Dear Mr. Jazz courier, could you please tell me (us) the B.N. Records of which you speak. I have never heard a channel(speaker) that goes empty on a R. V. G. Record. Thank you