Placing Hope in a Snipe
I haven’t been buying records at all and, in fact, I am planning a major sale of records and other stuff from my collection. Keep tuned to this space for details or, if you want a really early start, send an email to me at al(at)jazzcollector.com. But the buying bug never really leaves, does it, and yesterday I was looking at this record Elmo Hope Quintet, Informal Jazz, Prestige 7043, and it looked in nice condition and the copy in my collection is a second pressing of Two Tenors, which, don’t get me wrong, is quite nice and is in perfect condition, but an original is an original and a Prestige is a Prestige and the price was lingering nearly $125 with just a few hours to go so, I figured, why not. And, even though I’m not buying these days I, of course, still maintain a sniping account, just in case, so I put in a snipe for this record in the mid-$300 range figuring I might actually have a chance, given that prices on eBay seem to be a little flat these days. But, alas, ’twas not to be. I looked this morning and the record went to somebody else for $405.02. Perhaps it’s for the best. I can always listen to Two Tenors, right?
that was a cheap price if in near mint condition
Agreed, Jack !!
This is a hell of a session. Possibly my favorite of the Coltrane Sideman sessions. Somebody got a nice record.
Thanks for the helpful steer on this record, which I might otherwise have overlooked on Ebay, when I found the UK Esquire release unhelpfully described as “Donald Byrd Informal Jazz 1950s LP” with the same stellar line up. Concluded it was one and the same, sniped it at around $50.
I have over a dozen UK Esquire 1950s/eary60s pressings of Prestige,withy their alternative covers, but weighty stunning quality pressings, I hazzard to say often sonically superior to many of my original Prestiges.
So thank you gentemen, saving me $350 and steering me to a “hell of a session”. Can’t wait for the postman to call.
Al/London Calling: that was a pity indeed, it would have been nice to have the Elmo Hope Sextet instead of a re-packaging. However the first edition of Two Tenors with the brown abstract cover is nice too.
I have the Esquire version of Informal Jazz, the original one which Al missed, and the brown cover Two Tenors. I sold the photo cover copy with NY adress on the back for good money a year ago.
So my score is three for a terrific album which has accompanied me during some fifty years. My first version was the Esquire by the way.
Esquires are a conundrum. I paid as little as $5 the other month for a near mint “Gone with Golson”, gorgeous pressing, and then got wiped out in a feeding frenzy on Coltrane’s “Lush Life”. The name I guess.
$80 is not unusual, but you routinely come across them priced like a bargain-bin item, as sellers undereastimate their worth to those of us who “collect to play”.
Does anyone know how they manufactured these Esquires in the fifties and early sixties – did they send an acetate or a mother by boat or in one of those new-fangled airplanes to London?
They are mostly such such heavy vinyl – I have one weighs 220gm and has a flat edge, along with hand etched RVG and PRLP numbers, (then a lousy different cover)
I still find it odd to bid for UK pressing of an American recording from a US seller with the intention of “bringing it back home” to the UK.
All stand for the National Anthem.
London Calling: so you were the lucky guy to win the “Gone with Golson”. I bid on that one, but my bid was rejected since the seller would not sell outside the UK!
When Esquire went broke, or as you wish, stopped trading, in the mid-sixties, I bought almost all available catalogue numbers at discount prices in London and Amsterdam retail shops.
The exciting thing was to buy UK pressings of records that were deleted since a long time in the US (early Prestige and Transition).
I also often wondered how they did to produce these Esquires. They must have flown over (or shipped on a boat) the matrices from the US to the UK.
Rudolf you have made my day! The number of times I have bid on a tasty price BlueNote only to find the seller will only sell within the US (getting a lower price, crazy) This time the shoe was on the other foot. I shall feel smug for at least 24 hours.
I envy your acquisition of Esquires at the right time.Good decision.
Some original Prestiges are just crazy money. I went for the John Coltrane (self -titled with Sahib Shihab) recently but the price just froze me out. Quite a few recent auctions have placed me second, with the winner saying “Bye bye, Sayonara, must fly”
London Calling, Rudolf…we all hve the same experience on Ebay…i’m outbided 99 % of the records i bid on…and that’s for the best ! Here’s my last fiasco :
http://cgi.ebay.com/Harold-Land-LP-In-Land-Jazz-1958-Contemporary-NM-/320707176310?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item4aaba32776
In speite of maybe 10 atempts on various auctions over the years,I’ve NEVER been able to win this record…:-D
Michel: you lost out because someone was willing to pay more. In my case the bid simply did not pass since coming from outside the UK.
As London Calling says, it is stupid, as a seller, to limit oneself to one’s home country.
Americans are more inclined to do so, but it is unusual for a Brit.
Right. i remember having been unable to “buy it now” a NM Charlie Rouse “Yeah’ (for 70 $! ), just because the seller did not want to send outside the US…One year later, i won one copy for 380 $…:-D…
Michel, that Harold Land auction is a classic. Won by what I call a “high-ceiling bid” (any very large number) placed about an hour before close. The final price setter was the 4-seconds-to close sniper ($110) set at a time when the price on the screen was only $69 ( but courtesy of the invisible high ceiling bid in the wings)
The high ceiling on all my losing auctions has been two to three times whats on the screen in the last hour, possibly more.
I figure if you want a record badly enough you have to take the risk and be that high ceiling bidder. The snipers are shooting blind, little time to reload. Just hope they are guessing low, or it will work out a tad expensive.
Its supposed to be fun, right?
I agree that it is economically silly not to ship worldwide. However, many sellers, including myself, have been victimized by the foreign mails (not just Italy, but Germany and Japan as well) or scams where winners claim not to have received their records. Delivery confirmation costs only $.80 for US packages, but $11.50 for international mail. Plus there is no easy way to integrate this into your shipping cost or to explain it to someone whose first language is not English.
Next time, instead of a cellar bid, i’ll place a ceilling bid from my cell phone – at the risk of buying at a stellar price.
Bill: normally the transport risk is for the buyer. An astute seller will put this in his sales conditions. It is then up to the buyer to ask for more protection and pay for registered/insured delivery.
By the advent of the infamous Paypal all rules have been turned around. The simple allegation of the buyer that he has not received the merchandise, will result in Paypal reimbursing the buyer by debiting seller’s account.
Thus, apart from the high commissions they charge, Paypal is rendering a bad service to sellers. They are biased against sellers.
I noticed that our friend Fred Cohen (see his today’s auction of 10″) does not accept Paypal anymore.
As a seller I don’t accept Paypal from European buyers. I must protect myself!
So, inconclusion, I can understand that some sellers prefer to remain within their national boundaries.
I’m a happy eBay buyer using PayPal. It’s a shock to me that thanks to cheaters and liars who claim their record never arrived, people like Fred are now no longer accepting PayPal. I mean, you either want to collect honestly or not, but receiving records by mail and then claiming your money back ’cause you say “you never received the record” is just plain fraud to me. And: how can you ever enjoy your collection if you own stolen records? ‘Cause that’s what it is. Theft.
@Michel: Jazz Record Scene has that record. Maybe it’s good enough for you.
I hop it’s allowed to post, hence there is a link on jazzcollector?!
@Mattyman: I fully agree. It’s getting much harder for (reliable) oversea-buyers to buy records with no complication.
I myself have received a lot of records from the US and I’ve never experienced any problems with the german postal system.
btw. (sorry for the triple-post): Does anyone have reasonable copies of Harold Land’s “Eastward Ho” or “Jazz Impressions of Folk Music”, or at least “The remarkable Carmell Jones”?
Interesting discussions all around,folks. If I might add to the mix,-re:”I didnt get my package scams”-Isn’t this a ‘one-trick pony’ on the part of a theif? That is how many times might someone claim “the post office ate my lp” before feedback and communication on sites like this one uncovers the fraud? I would think the “cost” of having several questioning,negative feedback comments would quickly alert sellers to deal elsewhere. I believe(hope?) that just the kind of comments generated here would lessen the occurence of illegitimate claims. After all,if we don’t police/protect ourselves,who will?
It’ll be interesting to see if Jazz Record Center’s pricing is diminished because it is no longer taking Pay Pal. I can see why they would do it — who needs to pay those fees if you don’t have to, particularly on high-priced records. They have a retail operation that is already set up for credit card sales and they have a sterling reputation within the community. It’s not something an online seller such as I would be able to do (if I were selling these days, which I’m not), but if I could do it I’d consider it.
FYI – I first bought LPs on ebay from JRC about 2 years ago and they did not accept PayPal back then either. It is not a recent change.
BigBear: I bought three months ago at JRC and paid via Paypal.
I have bought quite a few times from JRC and never remember them accepting Paypal, although I don’t pay to much attention. Doesn’t really bother me. I just use my debit card that’s tied to my paypal. It requires some communication with them but honestly I love calling to get some history behind the records I’ve paid. But I wouldn’t want to do this with everyone. Atomic Records also doesn’t accept paypal.