A Reader Question Re: Deep Groove, Flat Edge
Sorry I haven’t posted in a couple of days. Was stuck in a snowstorm without my computer. It was like being cut off from civilization. Anyway, I’m back and will soon get caught up on all I’ve missed in the Jazz Collector world. In the meantime, one of our readers posts a question for our readers: What is the derivation of the deep groove and the flat edge? Where they technical considerations that were later abandoned as the technology shifted? Were they specific to certain labels and pressing factories? It’s a good question and I’m sure searching deep on Google may provide an answer, but perhaps we can provide a shortcut and fodder for interesting conversation by asking it here. So, to all, whither the deep groove and the flat edge?
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I am so glad you posted this question for I have wondered about this information myself. When I first started getting into collecting 10 years ago, I thought Blue Note was the only deep groove/flat edge label but as I continued to expand my knowledge and uncover more records, I would discover the deep groove on so many other labels and genres and began to wonder about its origin. Sorry my post contains no information or an answer- I am anticipating though seeing what the collective knowledge of everyone who frequents jazz collector is about these characteristics.
Hey guys, I recommend checking out the link below… I can’t verify the accuracy, but this guy seems to know what he is talking about when it comes to Blue Note pressing information and it has served me well in the past:
47West63rd (blog)
http://47west63rd.blogspot.com/2005/02/allan-songer-on-original-blue-notes.html
Here is a “cut & paste” summary that was originally posted on the Vinyl Asylum bulletin board by Allan Songer..
-First–you can’t tell the vintage of the pressing by the label alone or even if it has “deep-grooves.”
-ALL “original” (not FIRST, but original pre-Liberty) pressings have the little “ear” mark in the dead wax. It looks like a cursive “P” because that is what it is! It’s “P” for Plastylite, the pressing plant that pressed ALL original Blue Notes.
-The deep groove is present on first pressings of every Blue Note LP from the beginning through Blue Note 4058. Starting with Blue Note 4059, Plastylite BOUGHT NEW EQUIPMENT that did NOT press in the deep grooves! 4059 (Kenny Drew, “Undercurrent”) is an anomaly because EVERY KNOWN COPY has the deep groove on one side only–that means Plastylite used the newer equipment for one side only! This is also a VERY rare title that most likely went through only ONE pressing!
-Starting with 4060 ALL “first” pressings have NO deep groove! If you find a copy of any number AFTER 4059 that has a deep groove in one or both sides, it’s a SECOND pressing–the new equipment was ALWAYS used for the first run! This has NO EFFECT on value however!
-The “Lexington” labels were used up through BN 1543, Kenny Burrell vol. 2–even LATE pressings of many of these titles still used the left over Lexington labels–you have to look for the deep-grooves AND the edge of the record itself! ALL OF THE LEXINGTON TITLES HAVE FLAT EDGES IF THEY ARE TRULY FIRST PRESSINGS!
That is the best I can do on short notice, but check out the link above for the long-version !
(If you are like me, this bite of the proverbial apple will frustrate the hell out of you upon the realization that many of those prize LP’s in your collection may not actually be first pressings after all…)
My understanding is that “deep groove” refers to a circular groove in the label area, not a description of the vinyl cut itself – so I don’t know what, if any, “technical consideration” occurred in adhering the label to the vinyl.
“Flat edge”, if I’m correct, refers to a “lipless” perfectly flat lead-in groove area. Raised “lips” were originally introduced so that stacked records on a changer would rest on the lips and not get scratched when they dropped on the platter. Eventually, this was considered not an issue anymore, and lps were produced with a “flat edge”.
…For those not familiar with the process of record production, the “deep grove” is a result of the pressing process, and is a direct result of the type of press used by companies like Plastylite at the time.
– The vinyl is melted down into what is called the biscuit.
(This is the center of the record, the round part with no grooves and the little hole.)
-To this is added the label, which is pressed onto the biscuit, a step that doesn’t require any adhesive. Rather, the biscuit is so hot from the vinyl being melted down that the label sticks right on…
I have contacted United Record Pressing for additional info…
T.B.C.
Just a quick note regarding the above comment regarding Blue Note 4059. To my knowledge, it would be impossible to press one side of an LP on one piece of equipment and the b-side on another. Both sides are pressed at once. The vinyl biscuit is placed between two stampers on the record press which then heats and presses the vinyl at very high pressure to form the finished record. The stampers are metal parts, one for each LP side, which contain a negative image of the respective sides. They are the “molds,” in other words. When the vinyl is pressed into them, they form the playable version of the LP. Thus, any difference in the sides on BN 4059 must have resulted from the b-side stamper being formed differently from the a-side stamper. Stampers are created from the original mother disc, so the difference could have been the mother. Stampers are typically good for 1000-2000 presses until they deteriorate, so the writer is probably correct in assuming that this anomaly was present in the first pressing only.
The stampers, when new, had an L-shaped lip around center opening; this opening (about perhaps 2 1/2 inches or so in diameter) was where the center die would fit to hold the stamper in the press (A-side on top, B-side on bottom); a metal ring held the outside of the stamper in the press. The lip protruded toward the back side of the stamper, with the die fitting into the stamper so the finished record, in the label area, would be rather flush across the label These lips would eventually split away from the stampers and the center die would no longer hold the stamper tight. A pair of nippers would be used to snip this lip away from the stamper and a different style of center die would be used to secure the stamper center to the press head. This die had its own lip to hold the now-lipless stamper in place, creating the “groove” since this die lip area now protruded above the surface of the stamper. So, a grooved pressing would most likely be from an older, more used stamper, but these lips could split at any time in the stamper’s life. I pressed records at Plastylite in 1964 and 65, getting drafted in Jan, 1966.