Hi Everybody. Quick question: I got Lee Morgan VeeJay LP 3007—from my research it has the correct label and everything checks out. It has no DG, but I’ve seen some with that label that do. What does this mean? Thanks.
Ok. It says VJLP-3007 on the album, but with a stereo sticker on the front. It is a stereo record. Does it have to be DG to be 1st press, or not necessarily? It is the correct “rainbow/oval” label.
This might be a stereo first press, some labels would release the stereo later. Mine is a Mono DG. Of the stereo was released a year or two later it might not have DGs.
Tim,
Like you I got Lee Morgan VeeJay 3007 with red STEREO sticker on the right front cover, and the rainbow/oval label in NO DG. Also the record label is “microgroove” and no “stereo” is printed on the label. The record plays like a stereo recording. Isn’t strange ?
A look through popsike was inconclusive. Checked out all the pics with stereo labels. DG was mentioned on one. On all the rest it was not mentioned or couldn’t tell from pic. The pressing I have has a “ridge” punched into the label, but not a deepgroove like a Blue Note album, so it’s hard to say. May be a 1st stereo pressing, but is likely to be a 2nd pressing. Looks like the 1st mono pressing have deepgrooves from what I can tell.
I’ve recorded three different issues:
double sided 47 west 63rd New York 23
23 side two only
23 side one only (for sale now)and this is the first time I see this coupling.
maybe Andy has seen 23 side two only,before.
a.-I was wondering how rare is the following lp:
Thelonious Monk BN 1510, New York USA label,deep groove both sides with RVG,P, and 9 M etched in the dead wax
b.- I also trying to understand the meaning of 9M
Is someone could be kind enough to help me out with these ones.
first question:not rare
second question:I copy and paste from don- lucky
don-lucky Says:
July 19th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
In response to Robert Orenstein’s question re: The 9M in the runoffs, here is a quote from some of Larry / Fred Cohen’s research:
“9M appears on the Masters and very rarely just the stampers in the specific case of McLean 4024 (NOT a function of the Master though I always assumed they were!) of early Blue Notes 12” LPs and some 10” LPs too, usually at 3:00 in the runoff, when the catalog number is viewed in its usual 6:00 position. Fred Cohen speculated that this is an identification of Mastercraft , a mastering company. Prestige Records sometimes have a 7M so it could be a “meta” code, not referring to a record company but back at the manufacturing level. The significance of the 9M still remains is a mystery.”
For Any Sonny Clark fans out there, check out these two part article by Sam Stephenson. I’ve been a huge Sonny fan for years and this had lots of cool info that I never knew.
Thanks, o enjoyed it too. I ordered the authors book on amazon hoping about the jazz loft scene. I do hope he wirites a book on sonny as he seems to have an interesting perspective on Sonny the man. There is relatively little iknown about him as well which would make it a must read for me.
Mike-many thanks for providing the link on Sonny Clark. It’s info like this that enlightens the listening experience so much more than the standard “first pressing,deep groove” conversations. The fact that so much beautiful music was created under harrowing and often self-destructive conditions-“the jazz life”- makes for a compelling,though tragic,story. That’s a book I want to read.
I agree Ceedee, the more I know about about an artist/album/scene history the more I appreciate the listening experience. I can’t explain it, but every time I learn something new and I re-listen to a favorite record it becomes even more involving.
great post Mike!!
i think a part of it has to do with how much empathy one has.. unconcious you project yourselve in someones life, and so also “feel” his pain etc, then you project that on the music, feelin’ sorry for him(and yourselve)…. i think
But i agree, the more you know, the more you care
and i too think that his music is really outstanding(especialy Leapin’ and Loopin’
I was watching this auction for Brilliant Corner by roundagain here.
I remember the auction a few months back where this record in M-/M- fetched around $900 when auctioned by Music Matters. The one above fetched slightly less than $200. It’s M-/VG+ so there cover is not of the same quality but the record seems to be. Both are respected sellers. So what am I missing? Was the one a few months ago overpriced?
Man,oh,man. It seems as if every other week there is another death in the jazz world. Today I just learned of the passing-several weeks ago- of Dennis Stock,a favorite photographer. His images of James Dean and Miles Davis,among others,are well known not only to their fans,but to anyone with a passing knowledge of these American icons. To many,Stock was on that level in his field-a real artist. You can learn more and view a brief slide show here: http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/parting-4/
How do you feel about buying a record with the previous owner’s address sticker on the label? As a buyer would you prefer to have the seller remove, possibly leaving a mark where the sticker was, or leave that decision to you?
Allen Mezquida is a talented animator,and from the sound of it,someone who is equally comfortable playing the saxophone. His “Smigley” character is a delight,although you never know whether to laugh or cry. His “I Heart Jazz” is a fine example of his biting humor(thanks to Jazzwax for recently hipping me to his work). http://smigly.tv/video/smigly-i-heart-jazz/
Good eyes Aaron, it’s harder to notice on some labels and with some pictures. Round again is a very reputable seller which is why I was a bit confused.
I don’t know, if I’ve asked this before, but could anybody please tell me the last DG pressing on Pacific Jazz? And was there a difference between Stereo and Mono?
Many thanks…
I understand that early Emarcy labels have the classic Drummer – it also appears that there was first a large drummer and later a small drummer – first, am I right, and, second, does anyone know at what number they made the switch?
From the web:
This Wednesday, February 16 from 5:00am to 9:00pm, WKCR will dedicate a memorial broadcast to the pianist George Shearing, who passed away on February 14 at the age of 91.
WKCR(89.9FM) is the radio station of Columbia University,and has been a staple of the New York jazz community for many decades. You can find them on the web,honoring a great(and too often under-rated) pianist,Sir George Shearing.
Message to ANDY”,
I just saw the post you wrote (I listed below), I am the ebay seller of this record and do not understand what you are confused about, I only had one copy of this record and it was sold properly so please futher explain your comment-
———————–
Andy Says:
January 24th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
I’ve seen this one up several times already and I feel it’s sold more than once.. seller has zero feedback.. seems a little spammy to me.”
———————
In Response to Andys Comment above
KATY SAYS:
– I sold the one copy I had of this record once, Your “feeling” is incorrect & I do not appreciate you badmouthing me, also I had zero feedback because I had just started selling on ebay. So, if you still do have any questions, regarding the City Lights Record, I’m willing to provide any answers for you Andy. THANKS ALOT
-Katy B.
To Japhy:re OP,it looks like a lazy bidder,a lucky seller..or both! Sometimes you just want the damn record,I guess.
To Katy B: I’m not gonna get in the middle of this one(much),but I think the caution shown by Andy is what any experienced buyer might show towards a new seller.And if the seller posts an item and says,basically,”these aren’t pictures of my item,but it looks like this”-well…
If you’re dealing with the “new seller blues” -and most of us have been there-ask for help. Whether it’s pricing budget lps(Bird) or taking better photos of possibly rare ones(Evans),your sales will only improve as a result. And speaking as someone who once mailed the wrong lp to a winning bidder-until I learned to initial the mailer on the front BEFORE placing an lp within(DUH!)-it’s never to late to learn. And welcome to Ebay!
Hi everybody. Trying to get info on Contemporary–think I’ve got it, but was hoping I could it confirmed. Bought what I thought was a 1st presses this weekend, but now I think they are 60’s repress:
-Sonny Rollins and the Contemporary Leaders S 7564 dark green “contemporary records” deep groove label with gold lettering (LKS 63 D2 in deadwax)
also later press, I think:
-Barney Kessel Standards Vol 2. C 3512 yellow/black deep groove label (LKL 12 47 D5 in deadwax)
Both were inexpensive and nice records, just trying to learn what’s what. Thanks for the help.
Thanks for the help. The Kessel is not a flatedge. So the MONO were always the black/yellow, and the STEREO were Black label and then Green label later in the 60’s?
Tim,
I do not know the exact month of the Kessell release. 1956 was when the change-over from flat edge to safety lip occured (sometime around June/July I think). It will be hard to say if this is a ‘first’ or a ‘later first’. I believe you are correct regarding the label colors.
Thanks for the heads-up Don-Lucky. Bravo to Sonny and for the well-deserved and delayed recognition. I’ll do a separate post as soon as I get a chance. Great news to a long-time Newk fan.
…Who needs the Kennedy Centre Honours, when Sonny is being awarded “the highest award given to artists and arts patrons by the United States Government” It is also considerered “the highest honor conferred to an individual artist on behalf of the people”… This makes up for last years oversight I say.
Regarding the “9M” in the deadwax of early Blue Notes: I found a 10″ Sarah Vaughn record on the budget Royale label that has “9C” in the deadwax in the same script and spot as the “9M” on Blue Notes. Was it “9D” that was on some early Prestiges? I still wonder about this mystery mark.
OK, question for the BN experts (seems to be a lot of them here). I have, from time to time, seen eBay auctions for BNs from non-US countries, specifically Germany, France, the UK & I believe Italy. From the prices asked, some of them must have been issued about the same time as the first release in the US. Does anyone know the answer(s) to any of the following questions regarding original releases (I’m not interested in modern reissues such as all of the Japanese releases):
1. Which other countries had contemporaneous releases with the US?
2. Were the releases deep groove, RVG, ear, Inc., ® etc that would match up with their US counterparts?
3. What about addresses on the labels and covers?
4. Why do these sell for only a fraction of the prices for US releases?
5. What about reissues for non-US releases?
The same questions would apply for 78’s (I have never seen a non-US BN 78) and 45’s (45’s were issued in Japan at the same time as in the US (any other countries?)).
I imagine that this will also raise questions about non-US contemporary releases for other major labels such as Prestige, Riverside, etc.
There, that should keep everyone busy this weekend!!!
Terry: the only countries which had contemporaneous issues of Blue Note, were France and the UK. As a matter of fact, French Vogue/Jazz Sélection and UK Vogue issued national issues of 10″ Blue Note sessions (i.a. Elmo Hope, Clifford Brown, Gil Mellé). 12″ Blue Notes were never issued in French or British contemporaneous pressings.
Very True
Hi Everybody. Quick question: I got Lee Morgan VeeJay LP 3007—from my research it has the correct label and everything checks out. It has no DG, but I’ve seen some with that label that do. What does this mean? Thanks.
Tim: i think the first mono pressing should have the deep groove
see popsike, ebay
Ok. It says VJLP-3007 on the album, but with a stereo sticker on the front. It is a stereo record. Does it have to be DG to be 1st press, or not necessarily? It is the correct “rainbow/oval” label.
This might be a stereo first press, some labels would release the stereo later. Mine is a Mono DG. Of the stereo was released a year or two later it might not have DGs.
Tim,
Like you I got Lee Morgan VeeJay 3007 with red STEREO sticker on the right front cover, and the rainbow/oval label in NO DG. Also the record label is “microgroove” and no “stereo” is printed on the label. The record plays like a stereo recording. Isn’t strange ?
Yes. Sounds exactly like the pressing I have.
A look through popsike was inconclusive. Checked out all the pics with stereo labels. DG was mentioned on one. On all the rest it was not mentioned or couldn’t tell from pic. The pressing I have has a “ridge” punched into the label, but not a deepgroove like a Blue Note album, so it’s hard to say. May be a 1st stereo pressing, but is likely to be a 2nd pressing. Looks like the 1st mono pressing have deepgrooves from what I can tell.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Jazz-Lee-Morgan-CITY-LIGHTS-Blue-Note-New-York-23-side1-/320646358565?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item4aa8032625#ht_500wt_1090
I’ve seen this one up several times already and I feel it’s sold more than once.. seller has zero feedback.. seems a little spammy to me.
I’ve recorded three different issues:
double sided 47 west 63rd New York 23
23 side two only
23 side one only (for sale now)and this is the first time I see this coupling.
maybe Andy has seen 23 side two only,before.
Hi gentlemen,
2 questions for the mentors!!
a.-I was wondering how rare is the following lp:
Thelonious Monk BN 1510, New York USA label,deep groove both sides with RVG,P, and 9 M etched in the dead wax
b.- I also trying to understand the meaning of 9M
Is someone could be kind enough to help me out with these ones.
thanks
sl
first question:not rare
second question:I copy and paste from don- lucky
don-lucky Says:
July 19th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
In response to Robert Orenstein’s question re: The 9M in the runoffs, here is a quote from some of Larry / Fred Cohen’s research:
“9M appears on the Masters and very rarely just the stampers in the specific case of McLean 4024 (NOT a function of the Master though I always assumed they were!) of early Blue Notes 12” LPs and some 10” LPs too, usually at 3:00 in the runoff, when the catalog number is viewed in its usual 6:00 position. Fred Cohen speculated that this is an identification of Mastercraft , a mastering company. Prestige Records sometimes have a 7M so it could be a “meta” code, not referring to a record company but back at the manufacturing level. The significance of the 9M still remains is a mystery.”
and look at this one too,from the Master:
Rudolf Says:
July 19th, 2010 at 10:22 am
Robert: you say 9 M, why not 6 W ?
Your question remains very valid anyway.
For Any Sonny Clark fans out there, check out these two part article by Sam Stephenson. I’ve been a huge Sonny fan for years and this had lots of cool info that I never knew.
Part 1
Part 2
thank you for the Sonny Clark link. terrific.
Thanks, o enjoyed it too. I ordered the authors book on amazon hoping about the jazz loft scene. I do hope he wirites a book on sonny as he seems to have an interesting perspective on Sonny the man. There is relatively little iknown about him as well which would make it a must read for me.
Mike-many thanks for providing the link on Sonny Clark. It’s info like this that enlightens the listening experience so much more than the standard “first pressing,deep groove” conversations. The fact that so much beautiful music was created under harrowing and often self-destructive conditions-“the jazz life”- makes for a compelling,though tragic,story. That’s a book I want to read.
I agree Ceedee, the more I know about about an artist/album/scene history the more I appreciate the listening experience. I can’t explain it, but every time I learn something new and I re-listen to a favorite record it becomes even more involving.
great post Mike!!
i think a part of it has to do with how much empathy one has.. unconcious you project yourselve in someones life, and so also “feel” his pain etc, then you project that on the music, feelin’ sorry for him(and yourselve)…. i think
But i agree, the more you know, the more you care
and i too think that his music is really outstanding(especialy Leapin’ and Loopin’
I was watching this auction for Brilliant Corner by roundagain here.
I remember the auction a few months back where this record in M-/M- fetched around $900 when auctioned by Music Matters. The one above fetched slightly less than $200. It’s M-/VG+ so there cover is not of the same quality but the record seems to be. Both are respected sellers. So what am I missing? Was the one a few months ago overpriced?
Hello All – Mike with EBAY you never know
Man,oh,man. It seems as if every other week there is another death in the jazz world. Today I just learned of the passing-several weeks ago- of Dennis Stock,a favorite photographer. His images of James Dean and Miles Davis,among others,are well known not only to their fans,but to anyone with a passing knowledge of these American icons. To many,Stock was on that level in his field-a real artist. You can learn more and view a brief slide show here:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/parting-4/
Correction: Dennis Stock passed in January,2010…
How do you feel about buying a record with the previous owner’s address sticker on the label? As a buyer would you prefer to have the seller remove, possibly leaving a mark where the sticker was, or leave that decision to you?
I was watching the auction for Dexter Gordons Daddy Plays the Horn . This should have a Deep groove right?
It looks like a deep groove to me, look at the lower area where the silver ring doesn’t obscure it.
Allen Mezquida is a talented animator,and from the sound of it,someone who is equally comfortable playing the saxophone. His “Smigley” character is a delight,although you never know whether to laugh or cry. His “I Heart Jazz” is a fine example of his biting humor(thanks to Jazzwax for recently hipping me to his work).
http://smigly.tv/video/smigly-i-heart-jazz/
Good eyes Aaron, it’s harder to notice on some labels and with some pictures. Round again is a very reputable seller which is why I was a bit confused.
I don’t know, if I’ve asked this before, but could anybody please tell me the last DG pressing on Pacific Jazz? And was there a difference between Stereo and Mono?
Many thanks…
I understand that early Emarcy labels have the classic Drummer – it also appears that there was first a large drummer and later a small drummer – first, am I right, and, second, does anyone know at what number they made the switch?
Earl,
I’m not sure if this will answer your question but here is a great site for Mercury/Emarcy: http://microgroove.jp/mercury/Labels_EmArcy.shtml
From the web:
This Wednesday, February 16 from 5:00am to 9:00pm, WKCR will dedicate a memorial broadcast to the pianist George Shearing, who passed away on February 14 at the age of 91.
WKCR(89.9FM) is the radio station of Columbia University,and has been a staple of the New York jazz community for many decades. You can find them on the web,honoring a great(and too often under-rated) pianist,Sir George Shearing.
Does the sale price on this one baffle anyone else? http://cgi.ebay.com/OSCAR-PETERSON-TRIO-1965-VERVE-LP-WE-GET-REQUESTS-NM-/370484061855?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item564292269f
Message to ANDY”,
I just saw the post you wrote (I listed below), I am the ebay seller of this record and do not understand what you are confused about, I only had one copy of this record and it was sold properly so please futher explain your comment-
———————–
Andy Says:
January 24th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Jazz-Lee-Morgan-CITY-LIGHTS-Blue-Note-New-York-23-side1-/320646358565?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item4aa8032625#ht_500wt_1090
I’ve seen this one up several times already and I feel it’s sold more than once.. seller has zero feedback.. seems a little spammy to me.”
———————
In Response to Andys Comment above
KATY SAYS:
– I sold the one copy I had of this record once, Your “feeling” is incorrect & I do not appreciate you badmouthing me, also I had zero feedback because I had just started selling on ebay. So, if you still do have any questions, regarding the City Lights Record, I’m willing to provide any answers for you Andy. THANKS ALOT
-Katy B.
To Japhy:re OP,it looks like a lazy bidder,a lucky seller..or both! Sometimes you just want the damn record,I guess.
To Katy B: I’m not gonna get in the middle of this one(much),but I think the caution shown by Andy is what any experienced buyer might show towards a new seller.And if the seller posts an item and says,basically,”these aren’t pictures of my item,but it looks like this”-well…
If you’re dealing with the “new seller blues” -and most of us have been there-ask for help. Whether it’s pricing budget lps(Bird) or taking better photos of possibly rare ones(Evans),your sales will only improve as a result. And speaking as someone who once mailed the wrong lp to a winning bidder-until I learned to initial the mailer on the front BEFORE placing an lp within(DUH!)-it’s never to late to learn. And welcome to Ebay!
Hi everybody. Trying to get info on Contemporary–think I’ve got it, but was hoping I could it confirmed. Bought what I thought was a 1st presses this weekend, but now I think they are 60’s repress:
-Sonny Rollins and the Contemporary Leaders S 7564 dark green “contemporary records” deep groove label with gold lettering (LKS 63 D2 in deadwax)
also later press, I think:
-Barney Kessel Standards Vol 2. C 3512 yellow/black deep groove label (LKL 12 47 D5 in deadwax)
Both were inexpensive and nice records, just trying to learn what’s what. Thanks for the help.
Tim,
Rollins is a reissue from ’65 or ’66. Kessell is probably a ’56 first press. Is the Kessell a flat edge?
T
Thanks for the help. The Kessel is not a flatedge. So the MONO were always the black/yellow, and the STEREO were Black label and then Green label later in the 60’s?
Tim,
I do not know the exact month of the Kessell release. 1956 was when the change-over from flat edge to safety lip occured (sometime around June/July I think). It will be hard to say if this is a ‘first’ or a ‘later first’. I believe you are correct regarding the label colors.
T
The Kessel is D5 in deadwax—I wondered if that meant if it was later? Not sure what to make of the stampings. Hope it’s a 1st!
Tim,
That does not sound like a Contemporary matrix number to me. If you can post the matrix numbers, perhaps we can track it from there
T
LKL 12 47 D5 in deadwax
My guess is that’s it’s a 60’s pressing. Label is the yellow/black DG.
Don’t know much about this D!,D2 etc. stuff.
SONNY ROLLINS ONE OF 10 RECIPIENTS OF 2010 NATIONAL MEDAL OF ARTS !!!
AWARD TO BE PRESENTED AT THE WHITE HOUSE BY PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA
WEDNESDAY, MARCH 2
Watch at http://www.whitehouse.gov/live at 1:45 p.m. ET
Thanks for the heads-up Don-Lucky. Bravo to Sonny and for the well-deserved and delayed recognition. I’ll do a separate post as soon as I get a chance. Great news to a long-time Newk fan.
p.s. – Sonny’s website also has the full announcement with all the background on the award ceremony today:
http://www.sonnyrollins.com/
…Who needs the Kennedy Centre Honours, when Sonny is being awarded “the highest award given to artists and arts patrons by the United States Government” It is also considerered “the highest honor conferred to an individual artist on behalf of the people”… This makes up for last years oversight I say.
Regarding the “9M” in the deadwax of early Blue Notes: I found a 10″ Sarah Vaughn record on the budget Royale label that has “9C” in the deadwax in the same script and spot as the “9M” on Blue Notes. Was it “9D” that was on some early Prestiges? I still wonder about this mystery mark.
OK, question for the BN experts (seems to be a lot of them here). I have, from time to time, seen eBay auctions for BNs from non-US countries, specifically Germany, France, the UK & I believe Italy. From the prices asked, some of them must have been issued about the same time as the first release in the US. Does anyone know the answer(s) to any of the following questions regarding original releases (I’m not interested in modern reissues such as all of the Japanese releases):
1. Which other countries had contemporaneous releases with the US?
2. Were the releases deep groove, RVG, ear, Inc., ® etc that would match up with their US counterparts?
3. What about addresses on the labels and covers?
4. Why do these sell for only a fraction of the prices for US releases?
5. What about reissues for non-US releases?
The same questions would apply for 78’s (I have never seen a non-US BN 78) and 45’s (45’s were issued in Japan at the same time as in the US (any other countries?)).
I imagine that this will also raise questions about non-US contemporary releases for other major labels such as Prestige, Riverside, etc.
There, that should keep everyone busy this weekend!!!
Regards,
Terry
Terry: the only countries which had contemporaneous issues of Blue Note, were France and the UK. As a matter of fact, French Vogue/Jazz Sélection and UK Vogue issued national issues of 10″ Blue Note sessions (i.a. Elmo Hope, Clifford Brown, Gil Mellé). 12″ Blue Notes were never issued in French or British contemporaneous pressings.
Thanks Rudolf. Do you know if they used the same cover art?