Dotterjazz,
The Shrine label was a small Texas label {I believe} that only had a handful of releases. All of them were in quantities of less than 500. Most have not survived, especially in this condition. They rarely come up for sale, thus demanding very high prices. I would expect this particular item to top $10K.
Dottorjazz,Re:that 45 on Shrine. I think someone spending that kind of $$$ for such a record must be thinking of building an ACTUAL shrine,perhaps topped by the disc,in a Xmas-tree like fashion. Maybe with bundles of 100 dollar bills around the base(so much classier than that fake snow). “FUGGITABOUTIT!!!”
ANGELIC= good music in rare record
DIABOLICAL= bad music in rare record
I prefer the former but others prefer the latter.
Differences in preference for music is the same than for women.
And it’s very GOOD we don’t like the same one.
followed an item which can be described easily as one of the rarest Coltrane albums: the 16 RPM Prestige Baritones & French Horns. The seller had a presentation inspired by our friend Bob.
Vide: “John Coltrane’s rarest LP” under finished items. It only went for just over 100 dollars!
PRLP 16-6 Pepper Adams/Cecil Payne/Julius Watkins/Dave Amram – Modern Jazz Survey – Baritones And French Horns
John Coltrane (ts) Pepper Adams, Cecil Payne (bars) Mal Waldron (p) Doug Watkins (b) Art Taylor (d)
Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Hackensack, NJ, April 20, 1957
1208 Dakar
1209 Mary’s Blues
1210 Route 4
1211 Velvet Scene
1212 Witches Pit
1213 The Cat Walk
Curtis Fuller (tb) Dave Amram, Julius Watkins (frh) Sahib Shihab (as) Hampton Hawes (p -1/3,5,6) Teddy Charles (p -4) Addison Farmer (b) Jerry Segal (d)
Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Hackensack, NJ, May 18, 1957
1. 1276 Ronnie’s Tune
2. 1277 Roc And Troll
3. 1278 A-Drift
4. 1279 Lyriste
5. 1280 Five Spot
6. 1281 No Crooks
** same contents as Prestige PRLP 7280 + Status ST 8305.
two different sessions published on regular 12″ 33 1/3 rpm.
I have never seen nor searched for this 16 rpm.
It’s a real oddity and I couldn’t play it.
I’m a Trane fan but this item is not in my interests.
I owe Dakar of course, but this is really rare.
dottore: as a matter of fact these two sessions were led by Teddy Charles. The 16 rpm has lovely art work.
Of course, for practical reasons I am normally playing my “Dakar” copy.
You wouldn’t believe it, but I bought a Lenco turntable (78/45/33/16 rpm) for just 50 francs, just to play my six Prestige 16 rpm albums. The sound of the 33 rpm versions is better by the way. But the art work of the 16 rpm series is just gorgeous (i.a. one Andy Warhol).
what about this definition ?
extremely rare item, amazing art cover containing good music at diabolical speed.
Rare IS rare, cover IS great, music IS good, playability is VERY DIFFICULT.
= low price for rare item
who’s wrong ?
dottore: by definition you are right. What sense does it make to have a record you cannot listen to? For that reason I bought my Lenco turntable, to justify keeping the six Prestige 16 rpm albums.
By the way, the Trombone by Three album, Prestige 16-4, which adds absolutely nothing in terms of original sessions, but with a Andy Warhol cover, went lately for $ 809 when sold by sweedeedee and over 1400 when sold by Euclid.
Only Prestige 16-5 and 16-6 gave birth to new, original sessions, to be issued later on 33 rpm.
16-5 was by George Wallington – Phil Woods – Donald Byrd – Red Garland (Sugan NJ 8304 and N.Y. Scene NJ 8207).
we left from an obscure pop 7″ 45 rpm to end with the whole body of Prestige 12″ 16 rpm.
Quite a long way: still uncompleted, this 45 is over $ 7100,00. For the same price we can easily have all 6 Prestige, saving enough for a very rare Blue Note.
This is freedom.
What we all have learned is that if we have a question, THE MASTER is going to reply.
Thanks Rudolf.
Dottore: you are most kind and I even feel flattered. When you are talking about ‘THE MASTER’, you remind me of an old acquaintance of mine who lived in Amsterdam under the nom de guerre “maitre de disques”. As a matter of fact, he was a Master in laws, LLM and he amassed a huge collection of fiftiesjazz. He passed away a couple of years ago and his collection was sold by bits and pieces through the well known Amsterdam retail shop “Concerto”, well known to Maarten and Mattyman.
The 45 rpm story is amazing. Please keep us posted.
greetings from Savoia, Rudolf
4109, mono, no sticker, at least as first pressing.
the record sold a lot and maybe there are NYC mono “later” copies with addition.
sorry for stereo info: strictly mono addict.
I think I remember that a few month ago a copy that included the single was sold by jazz record center.
Maybe Fred Cohen has got some additional information.
Although my previous post might sound as though I am having a bit of a “blond” moment, I should clarify that I always thought the hit single reference referred to the track on the LP rather than the LP containing a separate EP inside….
BLUE NOTE ILLUSTRATED, online the updated release http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3VTPPGYJ
Tony, you’ll find both covers of 4109
collectors and friends: please help me to complete !
next month will be one whole year of working on it.
thanks to contributors.
Are there any readers here who have some knowledge on the following records:
– Art Blakey et les Jazz Messengers au Club St. Germain, vol. 1-3 (French RCA). I’ve had volume 2 with a black label and with a yellow label, both French pressings. Now I have Vol. 1, also French RCA, the label is also black, but different than the vol. 2. The sleeve has a blue border at the top, but there is also a Vol.1 with a white border at the top on Popsike… Which are the first pressings from this series?
– Art Blakey – Paris Jam Session Lp (Fontana). I have this as a dutch pressing with a black & silver label. On Popsike, there is one with the same looking label, but the seller described this as french, while the other french pressings on Popsike all appear to have a green label… Anybody knows which one is the original?
John,
Can you post the complete deadwax stampings on both copies, even the small letters or numbers away from the main number? Often that is a good way of determining the earlier pressing.
Lander: Paris Jam Session (Art Blakey on Fontana). The original Dutch issue has a silver/black label; the original French issue has a green label.
The original issue of the three live recordings on RCA of the late 1958 Jazz Messengers had black labels. A particular kind which is difficult to describe, the same as the original 25 cm. album design. Later labels were also black or maybe yellow. The yellow ones having the same layout as the first black. Later black labels had a different design.
The date of issue is printed on the rear of the sleeve at the bottom, first the month thereafter the year, e.g. 11.63 preceded by the name of the printer.
Each volume has another colour on top, blue, white, red, the French tricolor.
Folks, I have a Hal Singer album
“Blue Stompin'” from a company that has a stick-on overlay marked “Status”. The record says “Swingsville”, and the address at the bottom of the back cover is obviously from Prestige. Does anybody know anything about this?
John: this Swingville is a re-edition of Prestige 7153.
When Prestige started its budget label STATUS, they sometimes used old stocks of Prestige, New Jazz etc, just putting a sticker on the cover. If they had original labels, they were in general pressed without DG.
Hi Aaron
Here’s the info with dead wax info. The squares are actually upside down triangles. I can’t use that graphic on the forum. Thanks
I have two original UK Fontana pressings of Kind Of Blue (TFL 5072) and was hoping someone could tell me which was manufactured first.
#1 – Has Kind Of Blue in purple letters on front. Product of Philips printed on bottom left of back cover. The sides are not denoted on the labels and the LP title is below the hole. See image: http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums/h429/disc78/?action=view¤t=KindOfBlueFontanaUK1.jpg
Side one
AA 682059 ?1L ?1 //420
Side two
AA 682059 ?2L ?1 //420
Question regarding early Verve STEREO labels, does anyone know which came earlier, the one with (((STEREOPHONIC))) going all the way to the edge of the label or the one that stops before the edge?
I recently found a mono pressing of Bill Evans’ ‘Moonbeams.’ Its catalog number is RLP 428. The cover looks old, has no bar code, and there is a bb hole through the middle of the cover (and also through the label). It is on the blue, Riverside, “microgroove” label with the two reels on top. It has hand written matrix numbers with -A at the end. However, the vinyl feels kind of light for a sixties pressing. I do not have a lot of Riverside LPs with which to compare it, though. Also, the album has no deep grooves.
I was wondering if anyone could help me identify when the album might have been pressed. It looks a lot like the album in this auction: http://www.popsike.com/BILL-EVANS-TRIO-MOONBEAMS-LP-MICROGROOVE-RIVERSIDE/190520204243.html Could it be a 1970’s mono reissue, or do you think it is an original pressing? Identifying Riverside pressings seems almost as daughnting as identifying Blue Notes! Thank you for your help.
Thanks so much for the info. and link! I found my copy at a record shop in upstate NY for only $13. I thought it must’ve been a reissue due to the lack of deep grooves. Thanks again. 🙂
does anyone have info on the East West label? It is a subsidiary of Atlantic. In its presentation not a budget label at all. I have two albums on this label:
the Prestigiditator, George Wallington quintet with J.R. Monterose and Lars Gullin qrt, qnt, sextet, octet, band (Metronome masters).
The catalogue numbers are 4003 and 4004.
My question is what were the other issues on East West?.
ATCO is a similar case, but this is a pop label with one notable exception:
the 1959 Herb Geller date with Thad, Hank and Elvin Jones plus Scott Lafaro on bass. An exciting group.
I have a catalogue of this label.
dottore/Michael: thanks for the info. Interesting for me regarding the Tommy Potter album, I may have same or similar on Nixa. Have one MetronomeEP by Tommy too.
Dotterjazz,
The Shrine label was a small Texas label {I believe} that only had a handful of releases. All of them were in quantities of less than 500. Most have not survived, especially in this condition. They rarely come up for sale, thus demanding very high prices. I would expect this particular item to top $10K.
Dottorjazz,Re:that 45 on Shrine. I think someone spending that kind of $$$ for such a record must be thinking of building an ACTUAL shrine,perhaps topped by the disc,in a Xmas-tree like fashion. Maybe with bundles of 100 dollar bills around the base(so much classier than that fake snow). “FUGGITABOUTIT!!!”
ANGELIC= good music in rare record
DIABOLICAL= bad music in rare record
I prefer the former but others prefer the latter.
Differences in preference for music is the same than for women.
And it’s very GOOD we don’t like the same one.
followed an item which can be described easily as one of the rarest Coltrane albums: the 16 RPM Prestige Baritones & French Horns. The seller had a presentation inspired by our friend Bob.
Vide: “John Coltrane’s rarest LP” under finished items. It only went for just over 100 dollars!
PRLP 16-6 Pepper Adams/Cecil Payne/Julius Watkins/Dave Amram – Modern Jazz Survey – Baritones And French Horns
John Coltrane (ts) Pepper Adams, Cecil Payne (bars) Mal Waldron (p) Doug Watkins (b) Art Taylor (d)
Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Hackensack, NJ, April 20, 1957
1208 Dakar
1209 Mary’s Blues
1210 Route 4
1211 Velvet Scene
1212 Witches Pit
1213 The Cat Walk
Curtis Fuller (tb) Dave Amram, Julius Watkins (frh) Sahib Shihab (as) Hampton Hawes (p -1/3,5,6) Teddy Charles (p -4) Addison Farmer (b) Jerry Segal (d)
Rudy Van Gelder Studio, Hackensack, NJ, May 18, 1957
1. 1276 Ronnie’s Tune
2. 1277 Roc And Troll
3. 1278 A-Drift
4. 1279 Lyriste
5. 1280 Five Spot
6. 1281 No Crooks
** same contents as Prestige PRLP 7280 + Status ST 8305.
two different sessions published on regular 12″ 33 1/3 rpm.
I have never seen nor searched for this 16 rpm.
It’s a real oddity and I couldn’t play it.
I’m a Trane fan but this item is not in my interests.
I owe Dakar of course, but this is really rare.
dottore: as a matter of fact these two sessions were led by Teddy Charles. The 16 rpm has lovely art work.
Of course, for practical reasons I am normally playing my “Dakar” copy.
You wouldn’t believe it, but I bought a Lenco turntable (78/45/33/16 rpm) for just 50 francs, just to play my six Prestige 16 rpm albums. The sound of the 33 rpm versions is better by the way. But the art work of the 16 rpm series is just gorgeous (i.a. one Andy Warhol).
what about this definition ?
extremely rare item, amazing art cover containing good music at diabolical speed.
Rare IS rare, cover IS great, music IS good, playability is VERY DIFFICULT.
= low price for rare item
who’s wrong ?
dottore: by definition you are right. What sense does it make to have a record you cannot listen to? For that reason I bought my Lenco turntable, to justify keeping the six Prestige 16 rpm albums.
By the way, the Trombone by Three album, Prestige 16-4, which adds absolutely nothing in terms of original sessions, but with a Andy Warhol cover, went lately for $ 809 when sold by sweedeedee and over 1400 when sold by Euclid.
Only Prestige 16-5 and 16-6 gave birth to new, original sessions, to be issued later on 33 rpm.
16-5 was by George Wallington – Phil Woods – Donald Byrd – Red Garland (Sugan NJ 8304 and N.Y. Scene NJ 8207).
we left from an obscure pop 7″ 45 rpm to end with the whole body of Prestige 12″ 16 rpm.
Quite a long way: still uncompleted, this 45 is over $ 7100,00. For the same price we can easily have all 6 Prestige, saving enough for a very rare Blue Note.
This is freedom.
What we all have learned is that if we have a question, THE MASTER is going to reply.
Thanks Rudolf.
Dottore: you are most kind and I even feel flattered. When you are talking about ‘THE MASTER’, you remind me of an old acquaintance of mine who lived in Amsterdam under the nom de guerre “maitre de disques”. As a matter of fact, he was a Master in laws, LLM and he amassed a huge collection of fiftiesjazz. He passed away a couple of years ago and his collection was sold by bits and pieces through the well known Amsterdam retail shop “Concerto”, well known to Maarten and Mattyman.
The 45 rpm story is amazing. Please keep us posted.
greetings from Savoia, Rudolf
ended after 33 bids for $ 8,001.00
can’t comment this.
dottore: “8001” for an EP. So we are not the only fools on earth.
not even an EP, strictly single play: one (short) song each side.
I have a couple of Blue Note questions if anyone out there can help:
Anyone know if (8)4109 originally came with the “contains the hit single watermelon man” sticker on the cover, or if this was a later addition?
Also, has anyone come across a copy of this with the gold Stereo label in the upper left corner (which I presume is definitely a later copy…)?
4109, mono, no sticker, at least as first pressing.
the record sold a lot and maybe there are NYC mono “later” copies with addition.
sorry for stereo info: strictly mono addict.
Thanks. That makes sense. As I presume the hit single was a later development after initial release…
I think I remember that a few month ago a copy that included the single was sold by jazz record center.
Maybe Fred Cohen has got some additional information.
Interesting, are you saying that originally LP copies with the hit single on the label actually included a copy of the the single (EP) inside?
Although my previous post might sound as though I am having a bit of a “blond” moment, I should clarify that I always thought the hit single reference referred to the track on the LP rather than the LP containing a separate EP inside….
It really DID sound so !
Ha, ha, ha
BLUE NOTE ILLUSTRATED, online the updated release
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3VTPPGYJ
Tony, you’ll find both covers of 4109
collectors and friends: please help me to complete !
next month will be one whole year of working on it.
thanks to contributors.
Thanks dotorjazz. I will see if I have anything you are missing.
dottorjazz: very nice guide! Some of the pages seem to have reflowed though with images and text out of place towards the middle/end…
Dottorjazz great guide !
Seems to be almost complete.
What catalogue numbers are missing ?
I’m sorry about that, I’m gonna correct after weekend.
blue note illustrated, edition 3A
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MBN2JZ7V
Are there any readers here who have some knowledge on the following records:
– Art Blakey et les Jazz Messengers au Club St. Germain, vol. 1-3 (French RCA). I’ve had volume 2 with a black label and with a yellow label, both French pressings. Now I have Vol. 1, also French RCA, the label is also black, but different than the vol. 2. The sleeve has a blue border at the top, but there is also a Vol.1 with a white border at the top on Popsike… Which are the first pressings from this series?
– Art Blakey – Paris Jam Session Lp (Fontana). I have this as a dutch pressing with a black & silver label. On Popsike, there is one with the same looking label, but the seller described this as french, while the other french pressings on Popsike all appear to have a green label… Anybody knows which one is the original?
KIND OF BLUE – FONTANA PUZZLE
I have two original UK Fontana pressings of Kind Of Blue (TFL 5072) and was hoping someone could tell me which was manufactured first.
#1 – Has Kind Of Blue in purple letters on front. Product of Philips printed on bottom left of back cover. The sides are not denoted on the labels and the LP title is below the hole. See image:
http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums/h429/disc78/?action=view¤t=KindOfBlueFontanaUK1.jpg
#2 – Has Kind Of Blue in blue letters on front. No Philips credit on back cover. Side 1 and Side 2 are printed on the labels and the LP title is above the hole. See image:
http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums/h429/disc78/?action=view¤t=KindOfBlueFontanaUK2.jpg
I’m guessing they were manufactured consecutively but I’d be very interested to know which was first.
John,
Can you post the complete deadwax stampings on both copies, even the small letters or numbers away from the main number? Often that is a good way of determining the earlier pressing.
Lander: Paris Jam Session (Art Blakey on Fontana). The original Dutch issue has a silver/black label; the original French issue has a green label.
The original issue of the three live recordings on RCA of the late 1958 Jazz Messengers had black labels. A particular kind which is difficult to describe, the same as the original 25 cm. album design. Later labels were also black or maybe yellow. The yellow ones having the same layout as the first black. Later black labels had a different design.
The date of issue is printed on the rear of the sleeve at the bottom, first the month thereafter the year, e.g. 11.63 preceded by the name of the printer.
Each volume has another colour on top, blue, white, red, the French tricolor.
Thank you very much Rudolph!
Folks, I have a Hal Singer album
“Blue Stompin'” from a company that has a stick-on overlay marked “Status”. The record says “Swingsville”, and the address at the bottom of the back cover is obviously from Prestige. Does anybody know anything about this?
John: this Swingville is a re-edition of Prestige 7153.
When Prestige started its budget label STATUS, they sometimes used old stocks of Prestige, New Jazz etc, just putting a sticker on the cover. If they had original labels, they were in general pressed without DG.
Hi Aaron
Here’s the info with dead wax info. The squares are actually upside down triangles. I can’t use that graphic on the forum. Thanks
I have two original UK Fontana pressings of Kind Of Blue (TFL 5072) and was hoping someone could tell me which was manufactured first.
#1 – Has Kind Of Blue in purple letters on front. Product of Philips printed on bottom left of back cover. The sides are not denoted on the labels and the LP title is below the hole. See image:
http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums/h429/disc78/?action=view¤t=KindOfBlueFontanaUK1.jpg
Side one
AA 682059 ?1L ?1 //420
Side two
AA 682059 ?2L ?1 //420
#2 – Has Kind Of Blue in blue letters on front. No Philips credit on back cover. Side 1 and Side 2 are printed on the labels and the LP title is above the hole. See image:
http://s1109.photobucket.com/albums/h429/disc78/?action=view¤t=KindOfBlueFontanaUK2.jpg
Side one
AA 682059 ?1L ?2 //420 VV
Side two
AA 682059 ?2L ?1 //420 ?
I’m guessing they were manufactured consecutively but I’d be very interested to know which was first.
I meant to say the question marks (?) are upside down traingles.
KIND OF BLUE FONTANA addendum
#1 has E/T tax code embossed on the label
#2 has O/T tax code embossed on the label
E/T is from 1959
O/T is from 1961
Hi Aaron
Thank you.
Best
John
Prestige 7139. Red Garland “Manteca”. This album in E+/NM condition and a NYC pressing recently sold for $ 167.50.
Question regarding early Verve STEREO labels, does anyone know which came earlier, the one with (((STEREOPHONIC))) going all the way to the edge of the label or the one that stops before the edge?
Hi all,
I recently found a mono pressing of Bill Evans’ ‘Moonbeams.’ Its catalog number is RLP 428. The cover looks old, has no bar code, and there is a bb hole through the middle of the cover (and also through the label). It is on the blue, Riverside, “microgroove” label with the two reels on top. It has hand written matrix numbers with -A at the end. However, the vinyl feels kind of light for a sixties pressing. I do not have a lot of Riverside LPs with which to compare it, though. Also, the album has no deep grooves.
I was wondering if anyone could help me identify when the album might have been pressed. It looks a lot like the album in this auction: http://www.popsike.com/BILL-EVANS-TRIO-MOONBEAMS-LP-MICROGROOVE-RIVERSIDE/190520204243.html Could it be a 1970’s mono reissue, or do you think it is an original pressing? Identifying Riverside pressings seems almost as daughnting as identifying Blue Notes! Thank you for your help.
Any ideas ??
http://www.amazon.com/Somethin-Else-Story-Records-Modern/dp/0670020664/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1313002641&sr=8-5
I try again:
here
http://www.epinions.com/prices/Book_Somethin_Else_Ashley_Kahn/display_~latest_prices/pp_~1/sort_~avg_rating/sort_dir_~asc/sec_~wtb
Bill,
The Bill Evans Moonbeams is an early pressing made between 1962-63. See this Riverside labelography at the bottom:
http://33rev.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=58&Itemid=68
Hi Aaron,
Thanks so much for the info. and link! I found my copy at a record shop in upstate NY for only $13. I thought it must’ve been a reissue due to the lack of deep grooves. Thanks again. 🙂
does anyone have info on the East West label? It is a subsidiary of Atlantic. In its presentation not a budget label at all. I have two albums on this label:
the Prestigiditator, George Wallington quintet with J.R. Monterose and Lars Gullin qrt, qnt, sextet, octet, band (Metronome masters).
The catalogue numbers are 4003 and 4004.
My question is what were the other issues on East West?.
ATCO is a similar case, but this is a pop label with one notable exception:
the 1959 Herb Geller date with Thad, Hank and Elvin Jones plus Scott Lafaro on bass. An exciting group.
I have a catalogue of this label.
I’ve some trouble in posting here, sorry if it comes double: Rudolf find here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-West_Records
Rudolph, Jazzdisco.org also has the discography. They have a list of those on the sessions and dates also.
dottore/Michael: thanks for the info. Interesting for me regarding the Tommy Potter album, I may have same or similar on Nixa. Have one MetronomeEP by Tommy too.