Kevin,wellcome in this mad,mad,mad world.
The difference between 1200 vs 1500/4000 is very simple:old jazz vs modern jazz.
Collectors all over the world look for modern jazz in a percentage of almost 100%.I’m in this group too.
Personally I’m interested in classical music too,and I make no difference between Gregorian chant and Contemporary music.I can’t do the same for Jazz.
I start from Bebop,40’s,and go on for about two decades,end of 60’s,with few exceptions.
I’ve never been attracted by older Jazz.And with me almost all the other collectors.
Maybe it’s a shamey or a real sin.
But I like modern jazz so much that I’m gonna sin for the rest of my life.
i came across a lexington BN jj Johnson vol2.
It had all the characteristics, but NO deep groove…
(like the jackie from paperstax) a lexington label and no deep groove-…i don’t get it.
Maarten,
It doesn’t look like a mystery to me, just a later pressing that used up pre-existing labels. Did it have the Plastylite “ear” in the deadwax?
i didn.t knew that they saved old labels for SO long…non-deep groove is only after BN4058… i would have thought that by that time they where out of Lexington labels…
A very Happy 80th Birthday to the Saxophone Colossus himself Sonny Rollins ! (For those of you in the NYC area, there is going to be a great concert to celebrate this Friday September 10th, 2010 at the Beacon Theatre with special guests Jim Hall, Roy Hargrove, and Christian McBride …Definitely worth going to see !)
Thanks, dottorjazz. That was kinda my impression listening to the Bechet, but I guess I imagined a larger fan base for pre-war jazz. The same day I found the Bechet, I also found an early 80s French pressing of Monk’s Genius V.1, and the intervening years between Bechet and Monk sure do make a difference.
Hi guys, I just returned from NY and I really had a nice time.
Ceedee thanks for your advice and Maarten thanks for your interest.
One of the first things I did was taking the metro to Jazz record center to find the door locked.
What a shock standing on the street so close and not beeing able to enter.But then somebody came down the stairs and I asked about the shop to find out that it was Fred Cohen himself to open the store. What a relief after travelling so far. He is a really really nice guy and he took me upstairs taking some time for a little chat.
The shop is the greatest place for a jazz and vinyl collector I ever visited WOW !
Of course I also visited academy LPs too and they also had some really nice items for sale.
Of course there are more things to experience in great NY.
I listened to a nice jazz trio in central park on labour day, visited the MOMA, took the ferry to the beaches of staten island
and best of all had the opportunity to enjoy a set of Lou Donaldson at Lincoln Center which was the best experience because I did not plan this and only found out by chance that he was playing that night.
Such a great city and such a short time but a lot of memories to take home.
nice Jan!
Did you visit more shops, or were they to far appart from eachother?
And did you buy something?
Did those stores have like hundreds of first/2nd pressings from BN, prestige,vere etc… or am i dreaming to romanticly, ha!
Lou Donaldson alive and playing, great!!
Lou Donaldson was really great talking a lot to the audience in a really relaxed way and of course playing some great bop as expected.
To Maartens question:My impression was that the really rare records are rare in New Yorks shops too but that you have got much better chances to find something you are looking for/ interested in than in most other places. I think we are all spoiled by the offers we see on the internet everyday. I for example discovered a nice NJ copy of MD Coocking and an Atlantik black label copy of George Wallington.
Jan,glad to hear your trip went well. I’d forgotten about the “buzz me in” situation at JRC,though! Incidentally,if anyone knows what concoction Lou Donaldson,Roy Haynes and-yes,Ira Gitler-are drinking to stay so vibrant..? I’d swear those guys are doing their own jazz riff on “Dorian Grey”!(or,just maybe,it’s ”the music”…)
Hey guys, if anyone is in Manhattan tonight check this out!!!
“Bob Blumenthal, John Abbott, and Sonny Rollins himself will be at the Barnes & Noble in Tribeca to give a talk and slide show about the book Saxophone Colossus: A Portrait of Sonny Rollins. Please call the store for event rules and restrictions.
Tuesday September 14, 2010 7:00 PM
Barnes & Noble – Tribeca
97 Warren Street, New York, NY 10007, 212-587-5389
If you’re in the NYC area,tonite-9/15-will have pianist Ayako Shirasaki playing solo at Smoke(7:30-9),Renee Rosnes at the Vanguard(9pm set broadcast on WBGO) and Helen Sung playing with her trio later at Dizzy’s at JALC(11pm). That’s a lOT of jazz piano for one night-even for nyc!
Understanding that any number of this site’s readers may be new to the music,the fine art of jazz collecting(or both),I thought it helpful to mention this DVD entitled “Blue Note: A Story Of Modern Jazz”. Here’s the description:”This documentary of the history of Blue Note and its founders combines vintage and contemporary performance footage with interviews and anecdotes by Horace Silver, Johnny Griffin, Max Roach, Gil Melle, Carlos Santan, Freddie Hubbard, Herbie Hancock and more. Originally produced by EuroArts in Germany and aired around the world as a two-part television special.
91 min. Color. NTSC Region 0 – playable in all regions.” and the link http://shop.allaboutjazz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VAR-50D
I have some questions on the Fantasy label. I know that the red & blue vinyl were first opaque then in later years translucent. Were any titles that were first opaque reissued in translucent? Are any or all of these flat edged or deep grooved? What other colors were there? I have seen a purple one adversised for sale as well as either a green or yellow one, can’t remember which. This should keep some of you busy for a while! Thanks in advance for any/all help.
fantasy:surprising,and interesting question for me.I’ve got three only:g.mulligan presents (3-6),brothers sandole (3-209),d.brubeck (3249).
All are red:they seem opaque and are all quite similar to the oldest 10″.Mulligan and sandole bros.show a very deep groove,brubeck a smaller one,I would say no deep groove.A second issue ?
All are flat edge.
3-6 has a much darker label,I’ll call it blood:the others red,all with gold lettering.
The only reason I kept the brubeck is the cover,drawing of quartet playing in a theatre of bold-only listeners.
Terry: you are asking many questions at once.
Re Fantasy colours: I have seen red, red/black flamed, green, blue, purple and flamed multi colour DJ copies. I never saw a yellow one. You should know that the Weiss Bros, who founted the label were merchants in plastics.
The first reds were flat edge and darker than the later translucent ones, which had no flat edge and were more flexible, some even wafer thin. The first pressings (black and coloured alike) were stiff, thick and had a darker red label.
The famous 10″ Paul Desmond album no. 3-21 was issued in purple, red, green and a re-issue in black. This was the first fold-out album cover ever issued, I believe.
Dotterjazz,
Thanks for the info, it helps. I, too, believe that your Desmond may be a second, or later, pressing.
Rudolf,
That helps a lot, thanks, and very concise. Do you know where the deep grooves end? RE the gatefold, I guess that would depend on how you wish to define it. Would you exclude all of the RCA and Columbia 78 rpm ‘albums’ of the 40’s?
Terry: I said prudently “I believe”. The Desmond album is a 10″ and it is the only 10″ jazz album I know which is gatefold.
I have no comments regarding 78 rpm album presentations in the forties.
What is strange is the numbering of Fantasy albums.
They had a 10″ 3- series, which became 12″ with a Red Norvo album, I think it was 3-19 (I have the album, but I am abroad, so I cannot check my copy), then 3-20 and 3-21 were again 10″ (Brubeck resp. Desmond) and thereafter they continued with 3-201 etc. to start their real 12″ series.
Later versions and re-issues don’t have the separation (-), but have the catalogue number attached e.g. 3240 in stead of 3-240.
RE:Fantasy pressings-I’ve only seen/heard the red or blue issues. My experience is that the QUALITY of those pressings was typically poor. And it still drives me nuts that scratches and scuffs are so difficult to spot with the colored vinyl(“Boo! Hiss!”)
Rudolf,
I do not know why I have never noticed the intermixing of 10 and 12 inch LPs in the early numbering system. Do you know at what number the hyphen was removed from the catalog number? Perhaps the later issues without the hyphen are second or later pressings.
Ceedee,
I don’t know about the quality of the pressing, but the early LPs were on plastic, not vinyl. Plastic pressings tend to have a LOT of static electricity issues, especially in a dry climate. I have had enough static build up on a record that it arced and blew out my cartridge!
Terry-that’s right:PLASTIC(I mispoke). I pulled more than a few from their sleeves back then to find broken edges,etc. We’re not talking 180 gram here(think plastic plates)! I’m sure that is something that has worked to keep the collector value of those issues low…
Terry: re your query on Fantasy.
I have the July 1955 Catalog which lists under LP 10″:
3-1 (Brubeck trio) through 3-21 (Desmond).
Then 12 “:
3-19 Red Norvo through 3-205 Brubeck Trio. Right after 3-19 comes 3-201 Herdsmen play Paris.
The August 1956 catalog does not list ten inchers anymore, but has 12” LP’s only, starting with 3-19 through 3-239 (Brubeck Octets) with a scheduled issue of 3-245 “Jazz at Oberlin”-Brubeck.
In my collection the last full hyphen issue is 3-240 (Brubeck at Storyville).
I have 3-245 with the hyphen at the rear, but 3245 in front and on the labels.
It is safe to assume that catalogue numbers without hyphens after 3-240 are originals. Pre-3240 without hyphens are re-issues.
The undated (1957/58?) “complete catalogue of Fantasy hi-fi records” ends with 3250 and has all the albums listed without hyphen, except for 3-19!
I agree with some of you that the coloured vinyl, or plastic ?, tends to be noisy. Whilst looking up these data I have listened to 3244-the Red Norvo trios-without being hindered by background noise. This is a stiff, red wax copy with a flat rim, definitely a first pressing. Great Tal Farlow!
I just crossed my mind that the three major West Coast based labels each issued about 20 ten inchers before switching to 12″. (Fantasy, Pacific Jazz and Contemporary). Blue Note reached the number of 70 in modern jazz alone.
OK, we beat up on Fantasy for a while, now let’s try Atlantic. Al, from your Coltrane ‘Ole’ question yesterday, a white fan logo is from ’61, a black fan logo is from ’62.
Now, does anyone know the last number of the black label deep groove issues, or were they all deep groove? Any flat edge black labels?
I’m new to this forum but I’ve been stalking it for the past few weeks. I love the content and the wealth of knowledge of the contributors. The article about how to determine Blue Note first pressings was incredible.
I’m a 26 yr old hip-hop/Top 40 DJ from Colorado. I’ve been listening to hard bop jazz on digital media for a few years now, but I’m excited to start a jazz vinyl collection.
I was hoping some of you would be willing to take me under your wings to learn how start a respectable collection on a modest budget. Being a recent college grad, I can’t come close to the $1000 bin records, but I’d appreciate your tips about value records in the $10-$25 range. Or even stories about how you started building your own collections.
Some famous artists like CHARLES MINGUS, ERIC DOLPHY, MILES DAVIS, Count basie and Duke Ellington, but also lesser known Dutch jazz artists like MISHA MENGELBERG, Willem Breuker, THEO LOEVENDIE, Rita Reys etc
Ok,so when you think “jazz alto” you think Bird,Ornette,Donaldson,Stitt,”Fathead”,Hodges,etc. Eventually you might get to Dave Sanborn’s name-or not. Regardless,as an example of a contemporary musician who manages to be true to his OWN roots while developing his personal sound,you’ll find few better today to name . And as this WSJ piece shows,he’s made quite a “home” for himself outside of the music,as well-http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703431604575522382310869318.html
Al,
Thanks that’s interesting and makes me think the “86” might mean the common slang to remove something. The Verve records I have with this stamp are from the 60’s with the “T” label and MGM rim print.
Question on BLP 4068 “Face to Face” Baby Face Willette. I just bought this off eBay and it is a 63rd street with the ear but no deep grooves.
Allan Songer’s tips say: “Starting with 4060 ALL “first” pressings have NO deep groove! If you find a copy of any number AFTER 4059 that has a deep groove in one or both sides, it’s a SECOND pressing–the new equipment was ALWAYS used for the first run!”
Even though there are many DGs of this record out there, do you also agree that my record would be considered a 1st pressing?
Maarten,
The Songer ststement is a bit confusing, but probably true. I have never seen a deep groove after 4059. If all releases starting with 4060 are non-dg, there should be no more dg’s at all except for reissues/second pressings. Being very frugal, Alfred would have used older dg stampers. However, the catalog number would have stayed the same. I guess the only way to tell if it is a first press versus a subsequent release would be address on labels or cover or the large block letter catalog number on the bacxk of the cover.
Gang, I’ve been hesitating for a few years on attempting to get a pretty minor warp out of an old Blue Note (heavy W63rd press), and have finally decided it’s time. I’ve been reading online about the myriad techniques people have used to do this, with wildly varying degrees of success. I thought since I’m dealing wtih a Blue Note and I’ve got a great bunch of Blue Note experts here — what do you say? Any experiences to share with removing warps? Seems these $2,000 machines are the best bet, but of course that ain’t happening. Anyone know of someone with this device who charges folks to repair their warped sides? Thanks for any advice or input!
but a great album it is, the best of his BN output.I like the cover design also… He made two great cd’s in the
nineties with art farmer (Phd. and Blame it on my youth.. more than excellent!)
blue note-deep groove:I’ve read and re-read the article by larry cohn reported by don-lucky.Ok for how,why and when,but yet l I am not able to understand if an after 4059 should be double sided,one sided or no deep groove at all.
maybe it’s a stupid question by a stupid collector who is tryin’ to collect first pressing only.
what looks no stupid is the value these records run today.
so,please,someone out there try to let this stupid collector be sure to pay stupid money for a non stupid first pressing.
am I alone ?
dottorjazz,how about this-buy what you like(and what you can afford). Know that pricing is fluid,but will likely go up-although no one can say by how much. If you do buy what YOU like-and maybe copies of same to resell-you should do ok. After all,we all know what good taste you/I/we have,right?
Dottorjazz,
After 4059, no double sided deep groove. After 4059 was released, if it has a one-sided deep groove and a number before 4059, it is a second pressing. After 4059 was released and with a pre-4059 number and no deep grooves either side, it is a reissue. The one-sided deep groove occured when the title was still ‘in print’ but more copies were needed and the original deep groove stamper had become damaged or simply worn out and a new one hed to be made, so one side was ‘new’ and not deep groove.
Kevin,wellcome in this mad,mad,mad world.
The difference between 1200 vs 1500/4000 is very simple:old jazz vs modern jazz.
Collectors all over the world look for modern jazz in a percentage of almost 100%.I’m in this group too.
Personally I’m interested in classical music too,and I make no difference between Gregorian chant and Contemporary music.I can’t do the same for Jazz.
I start from Bebop,40’s,and go on for about two decades,end of 60’s,with few exceptions.
I’ve never been attracted by older Jazz.And with me almost all the other collectors.
Maybe it’s a shamey or a real sin.
But I like modern jazz so much that I’m gonna sin for the rest of my life.
i came across a lexington BN jj Johnson vol2.
It had all the characteristics, but NO deep groove…
(like the jackie from paperstax) a lexington label and no deep groove-…i don’t get it.
Maarten,
It doesn’t look like a mystery to me, just a later pressing that used up pre-existing labels. Did it have the Plastylite “ear” in the deadwax?
i didn.t knew that they saved old labels for SO long…non-deep groove is only after BN4058… i would have thought that by that time they where out of Lexington labels…
Re Miles Davis Birth of the Cool Capitol T762-I have this and want to sell it-Help please.
A very Happy 80th Birthday to the Saxophone Colossus himself Sonny Rollins ! (For those of you in the NYC area, there is going to be a great concert to celebrate this Friday September 10th, 2010 at the Beacon Theatre with special guests Jim Hall, Roy Hargrove, and Christian McBride …Definitely worth going to see !)
Thanks, dottorjazz. That was kinda my impression listening to the Bechet, but I guess I imagined a larger fan base for pre-war jazz. The same day I found the Bechet, I also found an early 80s French pressing of Monk’s Genius V.1, and the intervening years between Bechet and Monk sure do make a difference.
Hi guys, I just returned from NY and I really had a nice time.
Ceedee thanks for your advice and Maarten thanks for your interest.
One of the first things I did was taking the metro to Jazz record center to find the door locked.
What a shock standing on the street so close and not beeing able to enter.But then somebody came down the stairs and I asked about the shop to find out that it was Fred Cohen himself to open the store. What a relief after travelling so far. He is a really really nice guy and he took me upstairs taking some time for a little chat.
The shop is the greatest place for a jazz and vinyl collector I ever visited WOW !
Of course I also visited academy LPs too and they also had some really nice items for sale.
Of course there are more things to experience in great NY.
I listened to a nice jazz trio in central park on labour day, visited the MOMA, took the ferry to the beaches of staten island
and best of all had the opportunity to enjoy a set of Lou Donaldson at Lincoln Center which was the best experience because I did not plan this and only found out by chance that he was playing that night.
Such a great city and such a short time but a lot of memories to take home.
nice Jan!
Did you visit more shops, or were they to far appart from eachother?
And did you buy something?
Did those stores have like hundreds of first/2nd pressings from BN, prestige,vere etc… or am i dreaming to romanticly, ha!
Lou Donaldson alive and playing, great!!
Sounds like a great trip Jan. NYC is always magic, and Lou Donaldson is great live isn’t he ! (NYC is so addictive I swear…)
Lou Donaldson was really great talking a lot to the audience in a really relaxed way and of course playing some great bop as expected.
To Maartens question:My impression was that the really rare records are rare in New Yorks shops too but that you have got much better chances to find something you are looking for/ interested in than in most other places. I think we are all spoiled by the offers we see on the internet everyday. I for example discovered a nice NJ copy of MD Coocking and an Atlantik black label copy of George Wallington.
Jan,glad to hear your trip went well. I’d forgotten about the “buzz me in” situation at JRC,though! Incidentally,if anyone knows what concoction Lou Donaldson,Roy Haynes and-yes,Ira Gitler-are drinking to stay so vibrant..? I’d swear those guys are doing their own jazz riff on “Dorian Grey”!(or,just maybe,it’s ”the music”…)
Hey guys, if anyone is in Manhattan tonight check this out!!!
“Bob Blumenthal, John Abbott, and Sonny Rollins himself will be at the Barnes & Noble in Tribeca to give a talk and slide show about the book Saxophone Colossus: A Portrait of Sonny Rollins. Please call the store for event rules and restrictions.
Tuesday September 14, 2010 7:00 PM
Barnes & Noble – Tribeca
97 Warren Street, New York, NY 10007, 212-587-5389
If you’re in the NYC area,tonite-9/15-will have pianist Ayako Shirasaki playing solo at Smoke(7:30-9),Renee Rosnes at the Vanguard(9pm set broadcast on WBGO) and Helen Sung playing with her trio later at Dizzy’s at JALC(11pm). That’s a lOT of jazz piano for one night-even for nyc!
…Hard to believe, and it is only Wednesday night Ceedee !!! (Ayako Shirasaki solo is going to be a hot ticket I am sure)
Understanding that any number of this site’s readers may be new to the music,the fine art of jazz collecting(or both),I thought it helpful to mention this DVD entitled “Blue Note: A Story Of Modern Jazz”. Here’s the description:”This documentary of the history of Blue Note and its founders combines vintage and contemporary performance footage with interviews and anecdotes by Horace Silver, Johnny Griffin, Max Roach, Gil Melle, Carlos Santan, Freddie Hubbard, Herbie Hancock and more. Originally produced by EuroArts in Germany and aired around the world as a two-part television special.
91 min. Color. NTSC Region 0 – playable in all regions.” and the link http://shop.allaboutjazz.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VAR-50D
I have some questions on the Fantasy label. I know that the red & blue vinyl were first opaque then in later years translucent. Were any titles that were first opaque reissued in translucent? Are any or all of these flat edged or deep grooved? What other colors were there? I have seen a purple one adversised for sale as well as either a green or yellow one, can’t remember which. This should keep some of you busy for a while! Thanks in advance for any/all help.
Terry
fantasy:surprising,and interesting question for me.I’ve got three only:g.mulligan presents (3-6),brothers sandole (3-209),d.brubeck (3249).
All are red:they seem opaque and are all quite similar to the oldest 10″.Mulligan and sandole bros.show a very deep groove,brubeck a smaller one,I would say no deep groove.A second issue ?
All are flat edge.
3-6 has a much darker label,I’ll call it blood:the others red,all with gold lettering.
The only reason I kept the brubeck is the cover,drawing of quartet playing in a theatre of bold-only listeners.
Terry: you are asking many questions at once.
Re Fantasy colours: I have seen red, red/black flamed, green, blue, purple and flamed multi colour DJ copies. I never saw a yellow one. You should know that the Weiss Bros, who founted the label were merchants in plastics.
The first reds were flat edge and darker than the later translucent ones, which had no flat edge and were more flexible, some even wafer thin. The first pressings (black and coloured alike) were stiff, thick and had a darker red label.
The famous 10″ Paul Desmond album no. 3-21 was issued in purple, red, green and a re-issue in black. This was the first fold-out album cover ever issued, I believe.
Dotterjazz,
Thanks for the info, it helps. I, too, believe that your Desmond may be a second, or later, pressing.
Rudolf,
That helps a lot, thanks, and very concise. Do you know where the deep grooves end? RE the gatefold, I guess that would depend on how you wish to define it. Would you exclude all of the RCA and Columbia 78 rpm ‘albums’ of the 40’s?
Terry
Terry: I said prudently “I believe”. The Desmond album is a 10″ and it is the only 10″ jazz album I know which is gatefold.
I have no comments regarding 78 rpm album presentations in the forties.
What is strange is the numbering of Fantasy albums.
They had a 10″ 3- series, which became 12″ with a Red Norvo album, I think it was 3-19 (I have the album, but I am abroad, so I cannot check my copy), then 3-20 and 3-21 were again 10″ (Brubeck resp. Desmond) and thereafter they continued with 3-201 etc. to start their real 12″ series.
Later versions and re-issues don’t have the separation (-), but have the catalogue number attached e.g. 3240 in stead of 3-240.
RE:Fantasy pressings-I’ve only seen/heard the red or blue issues. My experience is that the QUALITY of those pressings was typically poor. And it still drives me nuts that scratches and scuffs are so difficult to spot with the colored vinyl(“Boo! Hiss!”)
Rudolf,
I do not know why I have never noticed the intermixing of 10 and 12 inch LPs in the early numbering system. Do you know at what number the hyphen was removed from the catalog number? Perhaps the later issues without the hyphen are second or later pressings.
Ceedee,
I don’t know about the quality of the pressing, but the early LPs were on plastic, not vinyl. Plastic pressings tend to have a LOT of static electricity issues, especially in a dry climate. I have had enough static build up on a record that it arced and blew out my cartridge!
Terry-that’s right:PLASTIC(I mispoke). I pulled more than a few from their sleeves back then to find broken edges,etc. We’re not talking 180 gram here(think plastic plates)! I’m sure that is something that has worked to keep the collector value of those issues low…
Terry, I will revert after the weekend. Send me reminder should I forget.
where will this one go…? with still 4 days left…
http://cgi.ebay.com/SONNY-CLARK-BLUE-NOTE-1588-ORIGINAL-63rd-N-Y-NM-/150497138165?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item230a5415f5#ht_5068wt_1139
Terry: re your query on Fantasy.
I have the July 1955 Catalog which lists under LP 10″:
3-1 (Brubeck trio) through 3-21 (Desmond).
Then 12 “:
3-19 Red Norvo through 3-205 Brubeck Trio. Right after 3-19 comes 3-201 Herdsmen play Paris.
The August 1956 catalog does not list ten inchers anymore, but has 12” LP’s only, starting with 3-19 through 3-239 (Brubeck Octets) with a scheduled issue of 3-245 “Jazz at Oberlin”-Brubeck.
In my collection the last full hyphen issue is 3-240 (Brubeck at Storyville).
I have 3-245 with the hyphen at the rear, but 3245 in front and on the labels.
It is safe to assume that catalogue numbers without hyphens after 3-240 are originals. Pre-3240 without hyphens are re-issues.
The undated (1957/58?) “complete catalogue of Fantasy hi-fi records” ends with 3250 and has all the albums listed without hyphen, except for 3-19!
I agree with some of you that the coloured vinyl, or plastic ?, tends to be noisy. Whilst looking up these data I have listened to 3244-the Red Norvo trios-without being hindered by background noise. This is a stiff, red wax copy with a flat rim, definitely a first pressing. Great Tal Farlow!
I just crossed my mind that the three major West Coast based labels each issued about 20 ten inchers before switching to 12″. (Fantasy, Pacific Jazz and Contemporary). Blue Note reached the number of 70 in modern jazz alone.
Rudolf,
Thanks for the very detailed explanation, very helpful! Last question before another topic, was 3-19 issued in 12″ format only?
Terry: yes, in 12″ only. That was the oddity, all of a sudden a 12″ in a catalogue of ten inchers.
OK, we beat up on Fantasy for a while, now let’s try Atlantic. Al, from your Coltrane ‘Ole’ question yesterday, a white fan logo is from ’61, a black fan logo is from ’62.
Now, does anyone know the last number of the black label deep groove issues, or were they all deep groove? Any flat edge black labels?
Again, thanks in advance for any help.
I’m new to this forum but I’ve been stalking it for the past few weeks. I love the content and the wealth of knowledge of the contributors. The article about how to determine Blue Note first pressings was incredible.
I’m a 26 yr old hip-hop/Top 40 DJ from Colorado. I’ve been listening to hard bop jazz on digital media for a few years now, but I’m excited to start a jazz vinyl collection.
I was hoping some of you would be willing to take me under your wings to learn how start a respectable collection on a modest budget. Being a recent college grad, I can’t come close to the $1000 bin records, but I’d appreciate your tips about value records in the $10-$25 range. Or even stories about how you started building your own collections.
Thanks!
Henry
FYI: Rare jazz LP’s for sale at the moment, check:
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZpsychfreak
Some famous artists like CHARLES MINGUS, ERIC DOLPHY, MILES DAVIS, Count basie and Duke Ellington, but also lesser known Dutch jazz artists like MISHA MENGELBERG, Willem Breuker, THEO LOEVENDIE, Rita Reys etc
Ok,so when you think “jazz alto” you think Bird,Ornette,Donaldson,Stitt,”Fathead”,Hodges,etc. Eventually you might get to Dave Sanborn’s name-or not. Regardless,as an example of a contemporary musician who manages to be true to his OWN roots while developing his personal sound,you’ll find few better today to name . And as this WSJ piece shows,he’s made quite a “home” for himself outside of the music,as well-http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703431604575522382310869318.html
I have a few Verve records that have CO86 stamped on the back in large block letters, does anyone know what this means?
CO is cutout. Not sure about the 86. I don’t think it’s the year, because I have several as well, all purchased prior to 1986.
Al,
Thanks that’s interesting and makes me think the “86” might mean the common slang to remove something. The Verve records I have with this stamp are from the 60’s with the “T” label and MGM rim print.
Question on BLP 4068 “Face to Face” Baby Face Willette. I just bought this off eBay and it is a 63rd street with the ear but no deep grooves.
Allan Songer’s tips say: “Starting with 4060 ALL “first” pressings have NO deep groove! If you find a copy of any number AFTER 4059 that has a deep groove in one or both sides, it’s a SECOND pressing–the new equipment was ALWAYS used for the first run!”
Even though there are many DGs of this record out there, do you also agree that my record would be considered a 1st pressing?
Thanks. Dave
Dave,
Yes, nice score!
according to richard cook’s book about BN, 4068 is one of the rare ones from BN because of the poor original sales.
nice, Daves!
Thanks for the rapid response!
just to be shure, i haven’t seen one myself, but allen Songer’s statement can be confirmed by other “jazzcollector’ members?
Maarten,
The Songer ststement is a bit confusing, but probably true. I have never seen a deep groove after 4059. If all releases starting with 4060 are non-dg, there should be no more dg’s at all except for reissues/second pressings. Being very frugal, Alfred would have used older dg stampers. However, the catalog number would have stayed the same. I guess the only way to tell if it is a first press versus a subsequent release would be address on labels or cover or the large block letter catalog number on the bacxk of the cover.
Our friend Bob Djukic is back with an “insanely rare” Cliff Jordan on Blue Note.
Gang, I’ve been hesitating for a few years on attempting to get a pretty minor warp out of an old Blue Note (heavy W63rd press), and have finally decided it’s time. I’ve been reading online about the myriad techniques people have used to do this, with wildly varying degrees of success. I thought since I’m dealing wtih a Blue Note and I’ve got a great bunch of Blue Note experts here — what do you say? Any experiences to share with removing warps? Seems these $2,000 machines are the best bet, but of course that ain’t happening. Anyone know of someone with this device who charges folks to repair their warped sides? Thanks for any advice or input!
guy in germany you can find on youtube
‘insanely rare’… 2 copies??
but a great album it is, the best of his BN output.I like the cover design also… He made two great cd’s in the
nineties with art farmer (Phd. and Blame it on my youth.. more than excellent!)
blue note-deep groove:I’ve read and re-read the article by larry cohn reported by don-lucky.Ok for how,why and when,but yet l I am not able to understand if an after 4059 should be double sided,one sided or no deep groove at all.
maybe it’s a stupid question by a stupid collector who is tryin’ to collect first pressing only.
what looks no stupid is the value these records run today.
so,please,someone out there try to let this stupid collector be sure to pay stupid money for a non stupid first pressing.
am I alone ?
dottorjazz,how about this-buy what you like(and what you can afford). Know that pricing is fluid,but will likely go up-although no one can say by how much. If you do buy what YOU like-and maybe copies of same to resell-you should do ok. After all,we all know what good taste you/I/we have,right?
Dottorjazz,
After 4059, no double sided deep groove. After 4059 was released, if it has a one-sided deep groove and a number before 4059, it is a second pressing. After 4059 was released and with a pre-4059 number and no deep grooves either side, it is a reissue. The one-sided deep groove occured when the title was still ‘in print’ but more copies were needed and the original deep groove stamper had become damaged or simply worn out and a new one hed to be made, so one side was ‘new’ and not deep groove.