Collectibility in the Eye of the Beholder
I imagine this is a great record, but someone needs to refresh my memory as to why it is so highly coveted by collectors that the price for this is now nearly $400 and will likely exceed $500 or much more when all is said and done: Wynton Kelly, Kelly at Midnight, Vee Jay 3001. This is a stereo pressing in M- condition for both the record and the cover. Is it the stereo pressing and the “stereophonic” lettering on the cover? Vee Jays usually don’t have this type of cachet, nor do Wynton Kelly trio records.
Think this one will sell? Presenting Ernie Henry, Riverside 222. This is a blue label pressing so it is not an original, which would have the white label. The record and cover are in VG+ condition. The seller has set an opening bid of about $200 and so far there are no bids at all, with the auction closing later today. My take: If it was in M- condition as a blue-label second press it might sell for $200, but in VG+ condition, I have my doubts.
While we’re not on Blue notes, here’s another:
Charlie Parker, New Sounds in Modern Music as Played By the Creator, Savoy 9011. I always love that phrase “as played by the creator.” Kind of ascribes a God-like quality to Bird, which, of course, many jazz lovers find to be wholly appropriate. This is a 10-inch LP, of course, and the vinyl is in M- condition and the cover is VG+. It’s nice listening to Bird on a 10-inch LP, although it’s nicer, in my opinion, on a 78, but quite nice as well. This one is in the $260 range and closes later today.
No explanation for the nearly 400 for Wynton on Vee Jay. I’d say that It is not even an original. I have a NM mono copy of this one. Never listened to it for years. Gave him a spin, fine session. At lst this crazy price made me remember this title in my vaults…
I have an original stereo copy. Never listened to it. My sleeve does not have the mention stereophonic on top.
I have a bad experience with this seller. Read well after the item description, the following phrase:
quote returns for REAL problems are accepted unquote. This, in practice opens the door for extortion, this seller determines what a real problem is. And then, in the end, it is the buyer who is stuck with the problem. This seller also operates an on-line shop specialized in jazz and was one of the guys who sent out auction lists in the ’70s/’80s.
Regarding this record: for me the interesting feature is the presence of Philly Joe. I’ll play it tomorrow and will report.
I find that seller’s auctions to be wildly overpriced. Lots of $5-$10 records in there for upwards of $30. Also, I distrust any seller who claims a 50 year-old record is Mint or New. No record is Mint or New unless it literally just came off the press. Even if unplayed for 50 years, it still sat on a shelf for 50 years, and thus is not Mint or New.
I’d say 95% of his current auctions are listed as N or N-. Hard to say on the vinyl, but in some cases the photos of the jackets suggest something more in the VG+ range. I have bought a bunch of stuff from the guy over the years. I’m not vouching for him, but have only had one real problem (as suggested by Rudolf, this was MY problem). I do bid on and buy his product – but always factor in the potential hassle factor in my bidding.
I agree with Joe. I am bidding on lots of auctions by this particular seller who usually describes the condition as N/NM. I think his logic is that he bought them in the 50’s and never played them thus they are new. The problem is that the records usually have gathered lots of dust and have many scratches (probably caused by the dust).
I still think they are better than most other records you will find, but I think his description is definitely misleading.
I was wondering why this would not be the original stereo. I have a black label pressing of this one (with small red stereo sticker). Would that be the first because I was not “impressed” by the pressing quality so to speak.
Note a VG copy of that Wynton Kelly record (in stereo) sold for $18.50 a few months ago, which is more appropriate.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WYNTON-KELLY-At-Midnight-jazz-LP-VEE-JAY-3011-mono-dg-CHAMBERS-nm-SUPERB-/380654763602?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item58a0cabe52
Another more appropriate price for this Wynton.
I dig all of the Wynton Vee-Jay sessions-it’s hard to go wrong with Kelly, Cobb and Philly Joe-but prefer the mono versions. VJ had a ‘hole in the middle’ effect that was annoying at times. It seems lately that folks are picking up on Kelly’s collectibility on this label in general. I think KELLY GREAT went for big bucks recently,too.
BTW-I think the starting bid on the Ernie Henry was too much…an orig.white label would be nice,but even second issue’s by EH are hard to come by. Lower the opening bid significantly and bidders will return,I’d bet.
So the rainbow label is the first stereo?
Kelly Great may go for big bucks because the original pressing is the maroon script – which is itself deemed “more collectible” – and there is a misspelling on the cover – it says “Kelley Great” and the artist is listed as “Wynton Kelley.” I have a beat copy of that I keep just because of the egregious typos!
Speaking of crazy overpriced….Bob D’s Back : this time, we understand why Miles smiles !
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/161039822234?clk_rvr_id=490770674298
That Miles Smiles auction is literally unbelievable for such a common record.
I thought that the Wynton Kelly is a live recording. It is not. The title gave me the wrong impression. The record is nice, and Philly Joe is very present, without being overwhelming. My stereo copy has very good audio qualities. There is no obvious sound segregation, Philly is on the left, P.C. on the right channel and Wynton is everywhere. A fine album, but not worth $ 400.
I would rather sell it for that price!
Miles Smiles: amazing! One must admit this guy BD has got talent. A super seller.
I have the exact same Miles Smiles and even better, my record is still in the original sealed plastic. Do I hear $600???
Who would pay that for a 50-100 dollar record? Some people are really nuts about the matrix numbers, I could not tell the difference. I know I prefer Analog over digital, but really, I must not have the ear that many have. I have a mono and stereo 2 eye, less than 20 for them each.
The days of $20 original jazz records are log gone! You guys are the lucky ones!
You either inherited your collection, bought the records when they first came out, found them in a garage sale for a penny (some years ago!), got them from a friend or family member, bought them for $1 or less sometime in the 90’s (when eveybody thought that vinyl was dead), or, if you are a dealer, then you have your secret sources… for the rest of the record collecting population, it is either:
1- Buy from record shops that are not able to give you a price quote for a record without checking popsike (usually quoting the famous Bob D. prices!).
2- Buy them online from a totally unrealistic seller who is asking an NM price for a rare record that is only VG or worse… (G+ anybody?!)
3- Buy them on Ebay, which means survival of the fittest, and a fierce fight to the last Ebay second with some crazy deep pocketed jazz vinyl maniacs and a certain Japanese record shop!
So it is either pay, or pray… !!
This unfortunately is the sad truth for many vinyl collectors in the year 2013 …
As much as it pains me to say so,vinylzone is right on point,re: collectibility. In a few minutes I’ll head outside for the Sunday NY Times($5)grab a bagel w/egg,coffee and a soda(for later)..I’m already around $12 and that’s just for walking out the door!
Popsike aside,the idea that a desired lp that was first sold maybe 50 years ago(or more)is in my hands for little more than that is a rare bargain indeed. As time goes by such bargains will seem even more special.
I tend to agree with vinylzone but I do think there are deals to be found out there. With some patience, luck, and timing, anything can happen.
Vinyl jazz records and muscle cars.
Who would have thunk it 10 years ago?
Regardless of genre, yes there are good titles to be had, if you know where to look – but one has to acknowledge that the time and money expended often goes well beyond the asking price, so you really need get some enjoyment out of the search or it’s not for you.
I have to admit that often when I pick up what I consider a good title for fifty cents, it was after having burned nearly half a tank of gas and rummaged about in stores all day.
For those of you who purchase on eBay, sure it has its own downsides, but part of what you’re paying for there is convenience. Further, while you all have stories about records that turned out to be less than advertised, in most cases you seem to be able to work something out with the seller. Most of the places I shop don’t have a return policy and even if they do, it’s another trip to the stor to take it back (I’ve never taken back a thrift store buy. I wouldn’t really feel good about doing that).
I happen to like buying the way I do. While I used to be a highly competitve person, that’s behind me now. Fretting over an auction, worrying about sniping times wouldn’t be good for my mental health. Sitting alone in a corner of a thrift store, taking my time looking through what they have – now that works very well for me. To each his own of course.
Vinylzone, I must disagree. There are hundreds of wonderful original issues out there on ebay, or at record stores for $20 or less. They are not the sexy Blue Notes or Prestige originals that are talked about here, but the music is still great. Think about different artists like, Milt Jackson, Dizzy Gillespie, Max Roach, J J Johnson, and Oscar Peterson. These are only a few of the artists whose originals can be found cheaply. Also, when applicable, look for stereos. These are always cheaper. I am even a bit envious of you and anyone just starting to listen to this wonderful music because you have so many great discoveries ahead.