Vinyl Classics From Riverside and Prestige
Let’s look at the Jazz Collector watchlist on eBay for an update, starting with Bill Evans, New Jazz Conceptions, Riverside 223. This is an original white label pressing. The record is in VG condition and the cover is also VG. The bidding is in the $294 range with two days left on the auction. As of now there have been 12 bidders and 46 bids. Such a great cover – you wonder what Riverside was thinking when they replace it for the second pressing. The seller for this one is Carolina Soul, which often has nice jazz vinyl on eBay, this week being no exception. Here’s one more: Curtis Fuller, New Trombone, Prestige 7107. This is an original yellow label pressing with the New York address. The record is in VG+ condition and the cover is VG. The bidding is in the $60 range with two days left. The seller mentions a “slight storage warp,” on both of these records, so that may be effecting the bidding, particularly on the Fuller. But , looking closer at the Fuller, the real gating factor is probably the huge writing in black marker on the back cover. When I first started buying jazz records, it was always about the music, but when I became a “collector” my values changed, perhaps not for the better, and the condition of the cover became almost-but-not-quite-as-important as the music. I imagine I am not the only one here was a similar experience.
Here’s another seller with some nice jazz vinyl this week, including Sonny Rollins, Tenor Madness, Prestige 7047. This looks to be an original New York yellow label promo, listed in what looks to be VG++ or M- condition for the record and VG++ for the cover. Can’t figure out what the seller is doing with the pictures – still scanning them perhaps? – and that might have an effect on the bidding, but so far there are no takers with a start price of about $500. To me, this is one of the seminal records of the era – Newk and Trane together, with the Miles rhythm section. It does not get any better, trust me. Is it possible this record has never made its way into the $1,000 bin? According to Popsike the highest recorded price has been $958. From the same seller, with the same weird photo crops comes Tadd Dameron, Mating Call, With John Coltrane, Prestige 7070. This is also an original New York yellow label promo copy that looks to be in M- condition, or close, for the record and the cover. This one also has a start price of about $500 and so far there are no bidders. Can’t imagine our community would let these gems pass by without a bid. But, we’ll see.
Just a word of caution on bluenote5 seller with poor photos. None of the recently sold expensive Prestige/Blue Note items show up in seller’s feedback. Creates a feeling that the records may be overgraded. At the very lease, those back covers likely look much more grubby in reality than in the murky images in the listings.
I like nice covers as much as the next guy, but if the vinyl is nice, I can live with a lot of nonsense regarding the cover. I upgrade when and if I get the chance.
A “Collector” is concerned with Value and possible Appreciation. A Record Album’s “Integrity” includes all parts being in fine, acceptable condition (Vinyl, Label, Cover, Inner Sleeve). Writing, seam-splits, tape, punch-holes, creasing…all detract from Cover originality. I often assign a Value-Ratio to a Record Album, meaning… what percent of the overall Value of the LP is in the Record itself and correspondingly what perectage of the Value is in the Cover. Albums with distinctive artwork/photography carry a greater Cover Value. While most Records hover near the 50/50 split (or slightly higher for the Vinyl) some weight toward the Cover for artistic or rarity reasons. The Beatles Butcher Cover is an obvious example of a Cover carrying 95% of overall Value.
…Love that cover photo on Bill Evans, New Jazz Conceptions, Riverside 223. Just noticed it sold for a whopping $1725 ! Is this one really that rare ?
gregorythefish, I can see your point but my experience with jazz records that are THAT old and original pressings shows that it is extremely difficult to upgrade and may be easier to track a better copy to start with. I’ve had a few really clean coverless BN 10-inchers for 20 years now and at some point realized that I couldn’t get decent covers on a budget because they came up so infrequently that there was competition way past my worth point for every copy. That said, I gave up some 10 years ago now. Perhaps, persistence would have paid off in the end but I am just not as passionate about it anymore.
Of course, on the other hand, buying on ebay is relatively risk-free as the item can always be returned so trial and error approach can work as well.
You can’t play the cover , that said it does put you back to the time of recording and adds to the pleasure of hearing those sounds in the original time setting .
My approach is hear the music with a clean vinyl first and upgrade the cover later if required. It still works for me.
“Love that cover photo on Bill Evans, New Jazz Conceptions, Riverside 223. Just noticed it sold for a whopping $1725 ! Is this one really that rare ?” – d_notes
I heard a lecture by Orrin Keepnews who said he sold only 600 copies of New Jazz Conceptions!
I am intrigued by Robert’s definition of a collector being someone “concerned with Value and possible Appreciation”. I urge him to look at great collectors such as Dorothy and Herbert Vogel or Giuseppe Panza di Biumo. I would hope that most of the “collectors” who are regular readers of this website began their collections for the love of the music in the grooves and still have a large portion of their “collection” that have little or no “financial “value” or “possible appreciation”, they simply have great music. Art Pepper on Galaxy, Frank Morgan on Contemporary, McCoy Tyner or Sonny Rollins on Milestone- zip value…except musically.
For forty years I collected jazz lps as a fan. I attempted to own a copy of every album on ESP, Blue Note, Impulse, Atlantic 1200-1700 (like Impulse AND BN there is a TON of dreck in there), BYG/Actuel, JCOA, every album with Mingus as a sideman or leader, same with John Gilmore or Dolphy or Jackie McLean. Crazy.
Now, as I sell off the vast majority on Ebay the “value” and “appreciation” are interesting from a distance but not the be all and end all. Billy Parker for $340.00+ when Chico Hamilton with Dolphy earns $4.99? Absurd.
In my mind the sell off has nothing to do with once being a “collector”. It is the dissolution of a love affair with collecting.
Now, fifty-one years after my first jazz lp purchase, forty years after taking on the heavy mantle of being not just a fan but a record collector, sitting at home with an absurdly lovely sound system, listening to audio files and streaming (your-favorite-artist-here) it is back to the love of the music.
Wow, only 600 copies sold of New Jazz Conceptions…that is even less than Mobley 1568 (apparently 800 copies sold). The tricky thing with the early Riverside (white label) is that they were sold without inner sleeves. So it is even more difficult to find NM copies…
There were at least two pressing runs of the white label/original cover New Jazz Conceptions, one with a deep groove and one without. Don’t know the story why a 1957 release wouldn’t have a deep groove but I have photographic evidence. The “small” blue label that was used through 1960 can be frequently found without a deep groove but to say non-DG white labels are rare would be an understatement.
@Aaron: it seems that Riverside “originals” – also (some) white label period ones – have been pressed both at the East Coast and the West Coast. Apparently the non-DG version of New Jazz Conceptions was manufactured by Research Craft Co. in L.A. – it has the “gruve gard” and U.S. and G.B. Patent numbers in the dead wax. I have a (east coast) pressing of NJC myself, which has deep-grooved labels, no groove gard or safety lip, and no patent # in the dead wax. The east coast pressings are usually much heavier (and better sounding) than the west coast copies, I have experienced…
Peter A, good info thanks!
Peter A. Absolutely right. Two pressing plants for Riverside.
Love the NJC cover,too-although by the time I first saw him play(’72),the “bookish ” Evans had long given way to “Grizzly Adams” Evans. I’m still enjoying my OJC pressing,which cost a lot less than 1k($7.00). Ooooh….suddenly,I feel all tingly inside!
I have just discovered the Bill Evans NJC, and am astonished by fluidity and attack displayed by Bill at that time. Was this recording made in 1956 or 57 by Riverside?