A Misadventure in Jazz Collection, The Final Chapter
What a relief. No more phone calls from Debby, no more emails of pictures, no more soul searching, no more thinking about logistics, about renting a van, hauling records down three flights, driving 10 hours, figuring out where to put the records, trying to flip a portion of the collection to get my money back quickly. All in all, I was very satisfied with the way things had transpired.
I probably could have purchased the collection, perhaps for $40,000, perhaps a little more, perhaps a little less, if I had really wanted it and was very aggressive and unconcerned about driving to Rochester and all of the logistics. But, in the end, it didn’t seem like that great a collection, I already own most of the collectibles, and as The Lovely Mrs. JC asked right at the outset, “Do you really need more records?” The answer was “no” – or at least not these records.
I went about my business. The week of July 4th The Lovely Mrs. JC took a week off, my favorite cousins came to visit in The Berkshires from Los Angeles. On July 3 we went to see James Taylor at Tanglewood, one of the best nights of the year. On the 4thwe had a big family barbeque. On the 5th we drove to Williamstown to see a play.
It was on the drive back from Williamstown, on our way to dinner in Lenox, at about 5 p.m., that my cell phone rang and, without thinking, I answered it on my speakerphone. Thereby I was greeted by the unmistakable voice of Debby in all of its annoying glory. She was out of breath, hyperventilating.
“He just left,” she gasped.
“Who just left?
“The guy from Chicago. He was here all day and he just left. Oh my God, I need a drink.”
“Calm down,” I said. “What happened?”
“He was here all day. He looked at all of the records. Oh my God. I don’t know what to do.”
She was clearly in a state of panic. The Lovely Mrs. JC shot me a look and, without words, I knew what she was thinking – how could you have spent so many hours on the phone with this crazy lady? How could you have even thought about dealing with her?
I stayed calm.
“Listen, Debby,” I said. “ I can’t really talk to you now. I’m with my family, I’m sitting outside a restaurant and I’m late for my reservation. Let me call you when I get home.”
“No,” she said. “I have to talk to you now.”
“What’s the problem?”
“He was here all day. Oh my God, I need a drink. He looked at all of the records, he made my an offer.”
“And?” I asked.
“Twenty eight thousand. That’s all he offered. Twenty eight thousand dollars. I don’t know what to do.”
“If you don’t think it’s enough,” I said, “don’t take it. You know I had offered you $40,000 sight unseen. Tell him he can have the collection for $40,000, or else don’t sell it to him.”
“But he came all the way from Chicago.. He spent the entire day here.”
“So what,” I said. “That’s the business he’s in. He buys some collections, and looks at others and doesn’t buy them. He’s a big boy.”
“He told me he will only pay me $28,000,” she replied.
“What can I tell you,” I said, while The Lovely Mrs. JC in the front seat was signaling to me with a finger across her throat to cut the conversation, and my cousin Rachelle in the back seat was murmuring, “this woman is crazy.”
Once again Debby said, “I need a drink.”
“Look,” I said. “I have to go. I can talk to you later when I get home.”
“What should I do?” she pleaded,
“You don’t have to do anything,” I said. “The records aren’t going anywhere.”
“He’s trying to rip me off, isn’t he?”
“Debby, I can’t talk now.”
“Okay. When can you call? I’m getting a drink.”
“I’m having dinner, then I have to drive home. I’ll call you in a couple of hours.”
“A couple of hours? Can’t you call sooner?”
“No, Debby. Goodbye. I’ll speak to you later”
We went into the restaurant and sat at our table. Within a few seconds, rapid-fire, I heard my cell phone signal that a bunch of emails had come in simultaneously. All from Debby. Each was reflective of a different state of panic. “Fellow here from chicago offer 28k! Too low I think just not sure now…help!!! :)”“Al, please call me.” “Al, I need to speak to you, NOW!!!!” “Al when can you call me?”
I showed them to Cousin Rachelle and The Lovely Mrs. JC. They looked at me with a mix pity and incredulity, like I was some kind of pathetic fool who was so blinded by the love of vinyl, the love of the chase, that I couldn’t see what was plainly before me, that this woman was not someone to be dealt with on any rational level, that she was bound to break my heart, that her elevator did not quite go to the top floor, to borrow from an American colloquialism. We spent a good portion of our dinner discussing the situation, with them trying to convince me that it was time to let Debby go out of my life forever and let the BSRD from Chicago figure out how to get the records down from the third floor of her condo and safely into his store in the Windy City.
I got home and called Dan. I explained the situation. The BSRD from Chicago had offered her $28,000. She was in a panic, hyperventilating, didn’t know what to do. I was supposed to call her, momentarily. Together we decided: I would repeat my offer, tell her when I could come to Rochester to pick up the collection, and see what she said. I hung up from Dan and called Debby. She was still in the same state as before.
“I can’t sell the collection for $28,000,” she said.
“Then don’t,” I said. “They’re your records. You can do what you want with them. You’re not under any obligation to sell them at all.”
“Don’t you know any dealers who would pay me what they are worth?”
“The guy from Chicago is a big dealer. He probably offered you what they are worth. You can’t expect to get retail value when you are selling a collection as a whole.”
I can’t remember the rest of the conversation that evening of July 5. I know that it went on much longer and it went in circles, with Debby always coming back to how much the collection was worth, what should she do, how could she accept such a low offer, she was getting ripped off, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Somehow, she wasn’t grasping the concept that she had one offer of $28,000 and another offer of $40,000 and there was an actual $12,000 gap in how much money should could get for the collection. She was still thinking in the range of $100,000 or more. I hung up and, once again, my head was spinning from the whirlwind of talking to her and trying to follow her logic all the way through the looking glass. Once again, I thought I was done. Then, of course, came the inevitable email.
July 5, 2018, 8:26 p.m. Email from Debby to Al. Subject: Pics
Al how many records are there by your guesstimating here if possible?
I didn’t reply. After all this time, she still hadn’t even taken the time to count the records. She expected me to tell her how many records were in her own home just by looking at a few pictures over the Internet. I was exhausted. I was done. I was not inclined to deal with her anymore. I didn’t want to hear her voice, read her emails, listen to her hyperventilate. The following morning I woke up, got on email, and saw that she had sent another note at 6:12 in the morning.
July 6, 2018, 6:12 a.m. Email from Debby to Al. Subject: Jazz Collector Website – Records
Mng Al,I was thinking this…if I have 6k records like I think there is he is only paying $5 a record give or take. Each record here and that means the big piles of pablo, contemporay ect were at least $25 each then you get to the great piles and it just does not add up! I was thinking of offering him the less expensive records and keeping the five piles of records that are great! Those piles of records that were on the two couches would value at least 90k together. What would you do? Thanks, debbie
and PS: thank you for your call backs yesterday also!
I sat at my computer and thought long and hard about whether to reply and, if so, how to reply. My instincts and inclinations were to cut it off completely, to end the charade, end the communication, move on with my life. I waited for Cousin Rachelle and The Lovely Mrs. JC to wake up and we discussed the situation one more time. They warned me against doing anything with this woman, that I could be renting a van and driving to Rochester and returning home with an empty van. I asked them what they thought, having heard her on the speakerphone the night before, in a state of panic, hyperventilating.
It turns out we all thought the same thing, Cousin Rachelle, The Lovely Mrs. JC and me. And that was this: While we were sitting in my living room, overlooking the lake, surrounded by my own collection of jazz records, the Big Shot Record Dealer from Chicago was hauling boxes of records down from the third-floor condo in Rochester, loading them into a car, bringing them over to the UPS office, packing them up, shipping them off, then going back to the condo in Rochester and repeating the same steps over and over again until all of the records, the Saxophone Colossus, Shades of Redd, Miles on Blue Note and Prestige, and all of the Pablos, Contemporaries and Verves, they were all going to Chicago, sorry but I can’t take you. And you know what? I was just fine with that scenario. Nevertheless, I decided to send Debby one more email.
July 6, 2018, 11:36 a.m. Email from Al to Debbie. Subject: Jazz Collector Website – Records
Hi, Debby. Hope you had a good sleep and made some headway on your decision.Just as an FYI, the Pablo records are worth a dollar or two each. They are not $25 records and never have been. And nobody is going to give you $90,0000 for the records on your sofas.
Here’s what I think: You’ve contacted one of the top dealers. He has seen the records and offered $28,000.You’ve contacted on of the top collectors, me. I’ve offered $40,000 sight unseen. You want to get rid of the records. You are probably not going to get a higher offer by waiting longer.
There are not that many people out there who will want to take a collection that large and who have the cash to pay for it. I would see if you can get the dealer to go up to $40,000 and take the records now, or tell him that you have another offer of $40,000 and sell the records to me and I can come get them the week after next. — al
Before I hit send, I showed the email to The Lovely Mrs. JC.
“What do you think?” I asked.
“What do I think?” she replied.
“Yes, what do you think?”
“I think,” she replied. “Those records are on their way to Chicago and you will never hear from Debby again.”
“Never?” I asked.
“Never!” she replied.
She was right. I never heard from her again. I fired off the email and that was that. No follow-up phone call, no loopy emails, no pictures of records on sofas, no word of what she had decided, no expression of gratitude for my time and knowledge, nothing. And, I chose not to follow up with her. First of all, I wanted to see if The Lovely Mrs. JC was right that I would never hear from her again. If I had reached out in an way, she was bound to reply. Secondly, I just didn’t care anymore. Uncle. I had had enough. More than enough. She had worn me down. If the BSRD from Chicago was able to get the records for $28,000, more power to him. If he had to pay a little bit more, more power to her.
I was never tempted to call her or follow up with her until now, this very second, as I am writing the final details of this serial, which I have aptly titled “A Misadventure in Jazz Collecting.” And the only reason I feel that temptation now is so that I can tell you all definitively what she did, where the records ended up, how much she received for them. But, it is a temptation that I will resist. I assume the records ended up with the Big Shot Record Dealer from Chicago, and I assume he paid $28,000 for them. I imagine I could find out easily, without ever dealing with Debby again. I could just call him on the phone. I know who he is and he has a sterling reputation as a reputable dealer and nice guy. I could check his eBay site, or even visit his store in Chicago, and look for records he has posted recently, comparing them to the records in the multiple pictures from Debby.
I choose not to do any of those things. I don’t care. In the end, I didn’t want the collection bad enough to fight for it. But I got a lot out of the experience, perhaps of even more value than the records themselves. For one, I got a great story to share with all of my friends here at Jazz Collector. For another, all of that soul-searching, the conversations with Dan and The Lovely Mrs. JC, the back-and-forth with Debby, the time on the phone, all of it made me realize why I may have wanted the collection in the first place.
As I said to The Lovely Mrs. JC at the outset: “Need really has nothing to do with it.” Nobody needs these records. Me in particular. I have more records than I will ever listen to. I’m 65 years old, much closer to the age when I should be thinking about getting rid of the records I already have, rather than accumulating more of them. But the chase is still fun for me, thank goodness. I still have the energy and passion to pursue. I still get juiced up and my adrenaline starts pumping at the mere idea of buying a collection. I am still willing and a able to drive five hours, haul records down three flights of stairs, load them into a van, and drive another five hours back home. I feel really good about that. Youthful, even.
And here’s the kicker. Two days after I sent that final email to Debby, after realizing that The Lovely Mrs. JC was right, that I would never hear from her again, I received an urgent call from my friend Eliot in The Berkshires. He was at dinner the night before and got into a conversation with some older guy at the next table and it turns out that this guy was in need of money and had a huge collection of jazz records he wanted to sell. He had no idea what they were worth, or if they were worth anything at all. I could feel the reaction in my body, physically. Another collection. Here in The Berkshires. Not five hours away, but a mere 20 minutes away. I hung up the phone from Eliot and immediately dialed the number he had given me. I made an appointment to come over and see the records the next day.
What happened next? Ah, this is a story that is still unfolding. Will it be an adventure or another misadventure? Time will tell. Stay tuned. When all is resolved, I will be sure to share it here.
Bet Dusty Groove got’em
my guess too Lennib. Great story Al. Thanks for sharing!
Patience…of…a…saint!
Hope you get the new Berkshires collection and it has a copy of Shades of Redd in it.
Bravo! This story deserves to be printed in a magazine. Seriously; you should submit it to Esquire or something.
Dusty Groove might have gotten them. I’ve seen a few things here or there on their site that suggest so. And I’m thrilled if they did. That store is glorious. Perhaps my very favorite of them all.
What japhy said above!
You offered her $40,000 and she took $28,000??? Why would she throw away $12,000? Maybe she got more than $40,000 for them and was just fucking with you. Don’t know why she would though?
Frustrating AF though!
But a great read! Thanks!
I wish people would call me asking to sell entire jazz collections. I could use a little misadventure from time-to-time, too. Alas, never happens!
Wow! Great story. Maybe the best of all your collector’s tales. I laughed, I cried, I almost watched $40G go goodbye. If a trusted, honest dealer would only pay $28G, my guess is you overestimated their value. All of us who have had record stores have been on many hundreds of house calls. They are almost always fraught. However, most times a little honesty goes a long way. Not so here.
I remember one instance where a seller took less money because the dealer was there and wanted to take them all right then! There is something to be said for being the last guy in the room. BTW Mrs. JC is not only the smartest one in the room, but she’s also a saint.
My guess is this new local collection will work out just fine.
Great read! Been following closely.
By reading this story, the conclusion seems to be : anyone who collect record basically waste his money. No matter what price you pay for indivudual record, no matter how picky you are with condition. No matter how rare they are, no matter Popsike, Goldmine, Ebay, Discogs, Fred Cohen, the 1568 NY23 controversy, the DG on one side only, the RVG stamp and all the Saints. When time to sell arrives, nobody will pay the money, the time, and passion you put on it. Chances you will make a benefit are near 0/100, chances you will sell at loss are near 100/100. Its NOT an investment.
I used to be in the collectible book scene and you can profit from a collection of 1st additions, limited pressings, autographed copies but you need to sit on that collection for at least 10 if not 20 years to turn a profit. Love your blog, great writing and great info on Bluenote originals. All mine are reissues but I’m only in it for the music.
Thanks Mr. Al for “baring your soul,” so to speak, in revealing the drama of ‘dealing with Debby.’ An tale of which many of us can emphasize with. Your spouse was/is most prescient on matters of the mind and also the peculiar workings of the collector.
As you relating the conclusion and the overly dramatic sprouting of the Debster after the BRSD left, I had a mental picture of the hub choking on his stogie in the layzboy recliner when the offer of $28k was given. You see, throughout your tale Mr. A., I conjured up an image of Archie Bunker and Edith playing the roles of the Debster and hub. It worked well for me as the tale unfolded.
Agree Michel with your posting re values. While I often regret selling 95% of my collection and all the Blue Notes, etc. before the prices paid rose, for the most part, record collections as a whole in my opinion never really get maximum money. Selling bit by bit worked for me, and if I find myself needing a sound again, most likely it’s on cd. Thus realizing some years back that , as Mr. A. said, ” I have more records than I will ever listen to, made the decision to eradicate records easy.
Regardless, a wonderful read and I enjoyed the telling of the tale.
There is one thing in this great story that keeps me wandering…….. Can any of you collectors relate to the situation that you collected such an amount of records and finally let your wife sell it? I keep thinking there must be some really special story behind it. Who is this guy that carried al this records upstairs? Did his relation with Debbie started just recently? Or is it nearly over? Please Al, find out! you are our contact to Debbie!
Al: From a gal’s perspective, a small bit of advice – Ms. JC sounds absolutely gorgeous inside and out. After putting up with this entire set of shenanigans, surprise her with a beautiful high quality bouquet of flowers tomorrow, and when she asks why, just say “..because you are wise and beautiful, and I don’t know what I’d do without you…” x c
If the Chicago dealer bought the record for 28k- then you can rest assured the collection is worth at least2/ 3 times that, as he is in business to make money and to make money he would at least need to double or triple his money. but we all know that, what you did not know AL she contacted the Chicago record dealer ( before she contacted you).. she had already spoken with him before she contacted you, the plans where already in motion for him to come down and view the collection way ahead of time, this was not a spur of
the moment thing where the bsrd gets a call and he shoots down all that way the next day. you see she could not pull this crap with the Chicago record dealer or anyone who is a serious about purchasing large collection.. being the professional the bsrd is, he would have to view the collection in order to make a offer
he wants to see what she has ,what condition they are in- as anyone would.. notice she stopped contacting you, that was not a coincidence- if you think this woman took 12 thousand less ( you kidding yourself) she basically wanted to see what someone else was willing to pay, and use that as a bargain chip, all she has to do is show the guy from Chicago what offer she got from you, your emails, now his offer to her has to at least be what you offered ( I KNOW WHO HE IS ) btw and i assure you this collection is pretty nice for him to pay for such a large collection
Jazzhead- people in this situation of selling stuff are not usually rational, especially when it’s on this scale. (And she obviously wasn’t.)
A lot of times, they just want it out of their house, and even with a high dollar amount, they just want to cut their losses (or wins, in this case). As addled as she was, she was probably thinking she couldn’t count on Al to come up with a van and the $40k…while she had a guy with $28k and a van right there.
Only a 30% haircut, after all.
Caroline — and today is our wedding anniversary as well.
Jauncho — I agree. She seemed really ready to lose it and probably just wanted it all off her head and out of her home. The whole thing was remarkably stressful for her. As off as she was, she could have had the decency to send me a note of thanks for all of the hours I spent on the phone guiding her, don’t you think?
Lennib — Good call. Every time I would hear her shrill voice I would get that Edith Bunker feeling. Stifle!
I can’t stop thinking that she must know you from your blog, which means she’s visited it before— which means she’s probably reading the entire story of how this unfolded from your point of view. Debby, if you read this— I hope you can find some remorse for the time wasted and aggravation caused here. Definitely makes for a good story, and hopefully can help bring all of us back to our senses, leaving us with the proverbial lesson: “just be thankful for what you got!”.
Went to a wedding on the weekend and at the reception , was seated with people I didn’t know. The woman next to me asked what I was doing in retirement. I told her I collect records and sometimes buy and sell. Her husband began to shout “I knew I should have waited to sell – you made me sell and I got screwed!!” She then told me they had only been married for two months (he is 67 she somewhat younger)and when she moved in to his place “there were too many damn records”. He had 1100 lps much of which sounded VERY collectable which he sold to a dealer that she found for him for $400. He also had to deliver them to the store for the guy, adding insult to injury. I suspect that might be some marital discord in the future.
Meanwhile. there is another Tommy Flanagan “Overseas” listed on ebay now.
Bravo Al! Well Told! Many thanks for the tension and entertainment.
What an unfortunate ending, but thank you for reliving it. You provided us with an interesting and suspenseful tale.
Great story, Happy end on one side only 🙂
Why do I see this developing into some sort of a surreal Netflix series or off-Broadway musical staring Sally Struthers as Debbie, and Nicolas Cage as Al ? (heh heh) …I’m always up for a road trip myself, but the risks certainly outweighed the rewards from the sounds of it. Too bad you couldn’t have just “cherry picked” this one in exchange for your services as quantity surveyor / psychotherapist, then let the BSRD take the filler. (At this stage in the game, it really should be more about quality not quantity anyway right ?)
I think Debbie is smarter than she appeared to be and the crazy hysterical persona is how she negotiates. I suspect, like Bruce Miller, that she used you to extract a better deal from BSRD. During the whole process she picked your brain and received a thorough education in the minutia of vintage jazz LPs…all probably used to her advantage when BSRD visited. From what saw in your posts, I would wager that the entire collection would be worth 6 figures if sold at retail. In fact the buyer could probably recover most the purchase price in a few weeks just from Ebay sales. Just my opinion. Nice story.
Wonderful story.
Those of us who are not BSRD, but just appreciate a nice record at a fair price, can enjoy the drama and intrigue involved.
I think the best lines in the whole story are to the effect: 1. I thought I ought to consult a psychotherapist. 2. My wife and I have a line of credit. Never thought I’d see those in a record collecting tale. I ready to go back and read it all again.
Thanks for sharing, had me on the edge of my seat.
That is a good story, Al. You relate the thrill of the chase so well, I feel a little tense and weird just from reading it. These deals are so fraught and layered with emotion, nostalgia, grief, pride, craziness…