Marketing, Language, Hyperbole and Collectible Jazz Vinyl
Where was I? Oh, yeah, collectible jazz vinyl. The seller vinyl-house-uk has some interesting items for sale on eBay, including the Wardell Gray Memorial Album, Volume 2, Prestige 7009. This is an original New York yellow label listed in VG+ condition for the record and the cover. The bidding is already at about $775 with more than four days left on the auction. This is already the highest price ever for this record, according to Popsike. In the same lot, the same seller is offering the Wardell Gray Memorial Album, Volume 1, Prestige 7008. This is also an original New York pressing in lesser condition than Volume 2, probably closer to VG all around. The bidding is at about $140. What I find interesting in these auctions is how the seller chose to list/market them. Volume 2 is promoted as “Wardell Gray/Sonny Criss/ Dexter Gordon.” Volume 1 is “Wardell Gray/Al Haig/Tommy Potter.” Do you think those headings make a difference? I absolutely do. Somehow, I’m more interested if Dexter Gordon is on a record versus Tommy Potter. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems to be leading to a record price for a record in just VG+ condition.
Whilst on the subject of Al Haig, sort of, the same seller is offering Al Haig Trio, Vogue L.D.E 092. This is an original 10-inch test pressing with white labels. I imagine it would be quite rare, perhaps even one of a kind. The record is listed in VG+ condition and the cover is Ex. The bidding is in the $775 range with more than four days left on the auction.
Also whilst on the subject of marketing, sort of, we have Cannonball Adderley, Somethin’ Else, Blue Note 1595. This looks to be an original pressing with the West 63rd Street label, ear, deep grooves, Van Gelder. The record is listed in VG++ condition and the cover is probably VG+ based on the description and the picture. Bidding is in the $700 range. I mention marketing because this is what the seller has to say about the record: “Simply put, one of the top-5 most beautiful, important, gorgeous and coveted jazz albums of all time. Very few jazz albums even come close.” You can click the link if you aren’t sure which seller would employ such embroidered language or, if you are a regular reader here and discerning follower, you can simply make an educated guess and you will be correct.
The wardell grays Lp’s will go 4 high price based on the seller, he has been on eBay a long time and has a great reputation as grading is concerned, the wording is just fancy talk 2 get more bidders, s far as the Something Else blue 1595, it’s from Bobdjukic so who knows what it will go for, i have 4 copy’s of it in mint condition that i bought in the 90’s and paid around $ 150 a piece for them, but hey like i said ,it;s a Bobdjukic auction
Four mint copies. Very impressive. Was that prescient investing — well it was, but it was purposeful, or were you just trying to keep upgrading your copy?
Just curious…why do you all use Popsicle as a reference only without looking at Discogs data?
I don’t care too much about the actual vinyl, the musicians, the pressings, or the condition. I collect original, thick cardboard covers (American style). Sorry I missed that one. 🙂
Popsicle
AL, they were original Blue notes and the seller in Austin,TX at a record show had them and i made him a offer on them, during the mid 90’s there were certain blue note originals that was to be had at a decent price, this happens to be one of them, along with with the 3 sounds lp’s he had tons of them in nm condition and was selling them for around $50 a pop.
Bob Dj is a funny guy. Whenever he auctions a “no ear” Blue Note, he basically states ear is not relevant. But whenever he auctions an “ear” Blue Note, he add a macro photography of the “ear”….?
Popsicle. Thank you spell check. I am pretty much the only one writing here and I only look at Popsike.
Wardell Gray $700.00 ? Say it isn’t so, how in the world could a non BLUE NOTE command that price ? It’s not because who plays on it. There are a number of jazz albums with impressive line ups but they don’t rate big bucks. Could it be the music itself ? Just stirin’ the pot …
D.Love – I use both Popsike & Discogs.
Popsike is more useful as you can see the actual records & transactions. It’s only issue is it doesn’t show if a transaction was never paid for, cancelled or returned.
Discogs is more vague since a very low or high price can skew the median if there are few sales. There are also plenty of records that have been mislisted on Discogs that contribute to the stats of the actual record.
Many times high end dealers and private sellers look at the highest price ever recorded for a record on Popsike, and will try to get that price at least or a few hundred more than that for their copy. So if an auction goes nuts one time then that price will be the new standard price many sellers will want to get.
Fredrik i concur with that statement. i offered a private seller $ 2700 for NICE clean NM copy of Tina brooks Trueblue blp 4041, which is what that record goes for in that condition, he wants $6000 for it now, he is going by the record price last year on eBay for that amount
Mark: there you go.
Frederick and Mark: try explaining that to them. They lose their minds.
To be fair, 12 copies of True Blue have sold for over $2700 going as far back as 2009.
Greg: Usually, if one tries to get it for a bit less, they’ll just say: ”allright, then I’ll put it on eBay”, or ”I have private collectors all over the world who are willing to pay that amount or more”… at the end of the day, they own the records and either you cough up the money or you decide it’s not worth it. But $6000 for True Blue is a joke. I thought I paid a lot for my copy back in 2016.
…Is it just me or has the wave of systemic laziness run rampant with seller postings on ebay over the last year ? It really “grinds my gears” to see listings for high-end vinyl with the phrase “used condition” or “see photos” listed in the description in lieu of any form of viable grading scale.
As for the Blue Note in question, I’ll side with the notorious “Bobby D” on his description for this one… “Simply put, one of the top-5 most beautiful, important, gorgeous and coveted jazz albums of all time. Very few jazz albums even come close.” …I absolutely treasure Cannonball Adderley’s Somethin’ Else. Beyond that iconic minimalist cover, this is one of those desert island picks. Two words… Autumn Leaves.
Here’s an old link to a Cannonball-Adderley collector site that has a tone of interesting pressing variations for this one https://cannonball-adderley.com/1595.htm
Don Lucky : it’s a nice record, but i;m not sure of the most coveted jazz records of all times, when i hear collectors mention records especially blue note Lp ‘s as far as rare and hard to get in mint condition, i hear True blue 4041, Candy, Hank Mobley blue note 1568,,, Johhny grigffin BLP 1559 etci hardly ever hear Cannonball 1595 in that must have rare conversation
Mark: the ones you mention are rare and hard to get in mint condition, I agree. 1595 is not rare, it has been re-issued many times, unlike the ones you mention.
But 1595 is a masterpiece, a unique session, which makes it one of the top albums ever issued by Blue Note, only equalled by Blue Trane.
Aaron : Where are you getting your source from? explain
True Blue: very good, very rare. Worth 4-5000 in todays market.
Something Else: Great record, not at all rare. Worth 1500 today.
Discogs versus Popsike: Discogs are asking prices (worthless data). Popsike are auction realized prices- the true real-world value of these records.
IMO, Discogs is a destructive force in the record collecting world. Yes, ebay fees are too high, but..
Mark Hall – Popsike, as we had been discussing upthread https://www.popsike.com/php/quicksearch.php?searchtext=tina+brooks+true+blue&sortord=dprice&pagenum=1&incldescr=&layout=&sprice=&eprice=&endfrom=&endthru=&bidsfrom=&bidsthru=&flabel=&fcatno=
Paul: I believe BLP 1595 (1st issue) is quite rare to find in great condition with the serif font 1st art cover. If you discard all the 2nd art covers the amount of copies available becomes quite a bit fewer.
Paul – Discogs also has sold price data. Unfortunately it’s only for the last 10 sold items, but I find it to be useful getting a sense of how rare record. As with Popsike/Gripsweat you have to spend some time sorting out the valid listings.
EBAY has got the feature “show only” ….and tick “completed listings”. This applies to completed listings of a seller, or of the same title/record.
Rudolf – eBay “completed listings” only go back 90 days.
Aaron, I did not know that. Still, for frequently traded items in those 3 months it gives an indication of the market.
A 10 or 15 years old sale reported by Popsike is of little help to ascertain present day values. When consulting Popsike I look at the last 2 years only. The rest is history.
Fredrik, I concur. It is almost impossible to find a decent 1st pressing of 1595. As a matter of fact, I never succeeded. I had to settle for a very nice, authentic 1959 second pressing.
Have you got a first?
Rudolf, yes I finally got a copy which I acquired back in June.
I just found out that Bobdjukic doesn’t play grade any of his lps. I was under the assumption that he did. To me, it’s kind of amazing that he’s as respected as he is and gets the great prices he gets without even giving an audio grade. Perhaps I’m just putting too much importance of audio grading when selling an lp?
I certainly concur with Rudolf on this one Mark, 1595 may not be the proverbial “holy grail” in terms of rarity, but like an original first pressing of Blue Train it is definitely hard to find a copy in decent shape with all the original pressing attributes given how many variations have been pressed. At the end of the day, like Blue Trane, it is just one of those albums few collectors would ever part with because its so timeless. It took me quiet a long while to get an original pressing myself, and even a few decades later, I never grow tired of listening to it.
Bill- Bobdjukic has never play graded his records, and if you ask him to, his reply will be that ” he is way to busy with all the records he has,
Don – i see your point, looks like all my copies are the 2nd pressing covers
Bill W., Bobdjukic certainly gets the prices but as far as respected… I haven’t seen much respect for him at least here. At best, feel more shady in the way people describe his attribution practices and hyperbolae.
Has anyone here ever purchased from him? I remember him sice early 2000s when I was still buying on Ebay but never bought as felt very uncomfortable with descriptions.
Ilya- i never purchased from him, but his feedback score is perfect and he has no negatives, i assume he is a store front with all the records he puts out in every auction, glad he now offers a refund if the buyer was not satisfied, at one point he would put NO REFUNDS on his auctions
Hope I’m not lowering the tone, but got an OJC copy of Wardell vol. 1 today for £7 on LP and the music is great at that price too…