A New Crowd For the $1,000 Bin?

Just a reminder, that auction we wrote about last week (An Old Fashioned Jazz Vinyl Auction) is taking place tomorrow. I spent some time looking through the list and I didn’t see that much of interest to me, although there were a few lots. I may place a few bids just for the experience of doing it. If any of you do participate, please share the experience with us here at Jazz Collector.

Now back to the “normal” eBay auctions that we watch, starting with a record that is near the top of my own want list, since it is the only rare Sonny Rollins records missing from my collection: Sonny Rollins Plays, Period 1204. This is an original pressing that looks to be in about VG++ condition for both the record and the cover. Looks like a nice copy but, alas, it will not be mine. The bidding on this has already exceeded $900 with more than a day left. So it seems pretty safe to say this one will reach the $1,000 bin and perhaps even higher.

This one also is destined to get quite a high price, perhaps the $2,000 bin: Kenny Dorham, ‘Round About Midnight at the Cafe Bohemia, Blue Note 1524. This is an original Lexington Avenue pressing that looks to be in M- condition all the way around. The bidding is already at $830 with six days left on the auction.

Noticed a couple more nice Blue Notes this morning, including John Jenkins and Kenny Burrell, Blue Note 1573. This is an original West 63rd Street pressing from the same seller as the Dorham record. It is also in M- condition and is in the $700 range with more than six days left. This seller promises to have a nice week.

Finally, the same seller is offering Paul Chambers, Bass on Top, Blue Note 1569. This is another original pressing, also in M- condition, or perhaps VG++ for the cover. The bidding on this one is “only” in the $375 range, but I would expect this to sell for more than $1,000 in this condition, wouldn’t you?

 

47 comments

  • I can’t make the auction tomorrow, no way of getting out of work, and more pertinently, I have to pick up the kids from school!

  • that German seller’s Blue Notes seem quite overgraded, at least from the covers, which are VG to VG+ at best. The Dorham Bohemia is pretty worked.

  • The seller sold a copy of the Sabu Palo Conga LP yesterday for $3249!

  • That is ridiculous.

    I’ll go back to my Toshibas thank you very much!

  • The Sabu LP even has mixed 63rd St NYC/New York 23 labels (should have NY 23 on both sides).
    That German seller also sold a so-so copy of Lee Morgan Indeed for $1913! Mixed Lex/NY 23 labels, no framed cover (although the listing claims it’s a framed cover)…

  • Sabu for $3,249, OMG!

  • a close look at the chambers lp pictures shows the cover split on one seam. so much for vg++ or m-.

  • AAhhhh, where is P.T. Barnum when you need him?

  • David j: You’re spot on…I checked out several of the other lps he listed as having M- covers and the photos tell a different story! His copy of Sabu went for $3,249 with a M- cover,
    ” 1st original thick laminated front cover as perfect as can be condition.
    NO ringwear, NO seamsplits, NO tears. NO stains.
    Rear jacket (liner notes) perfect white (like new). “.
    But one of the photos of the spine shows a 2inch seam split!!
    You have to wonder how accurate his audio description is, if he can’t see any flaws can he hear them?

  • The Lee Morgan Indeed from the german seller, has a mixed labels, one side 63st New York 23 and the other Lexington. Sold for about 2000$

  • Is the German seller a European version (close relative maybe) of you know who? (he who must not be named) 🙂

  • Not enough hype to be the Djuk.

  • Do not say foolishness. I simply express my surprise at their high prices

  • So did anyone buy or bid at the auction? I watched for a while online, but didn’t bid. How quickly it all happens! The vendors looked to have done well, with only 4 or 5 unsold lots.

  • Clifford, I would never buy from a seller who grades a cover like that Dorham Bohemia VG++. Even without the tape it would only be a strong VG+ in my book due to the edge wear. Overall it’s in nice shape for a 60 year-old record but that tape really puts in down in the solid VG+/strong VG area in my opinion.

    I’ll never understand why liberal graders proceed to grade their jackets liberally–we can all see it! If anything, they should be grading their jackets conservatively so we all fall for it and assume they do the same with their records, cuz when you think about it, with good photos all a jacket grade really does is give you a sense of how liberally or conservatively a seller grades.

  • 100% agree, Rich.

  • Gregory the Fish

    yeah, rich, that always seemed weird to me too, but i guess it’s better than having us all be fooled!

  • It’s funny on grading covers. I was at the baseball card shop with my kid and a person came in with some Mickey Mantle cards that he just had graded from a company and I jumped in the conversation on collecting. He kept arguing that you could grade records the same way as baseball cards and it should be a set standard, and my comment back was yes and no. Covers, yes, there can be a set defined grade for covers that a person can begin to grade them selves against and you can have a company grade against those standards and provide an “official” grading.

    Records, NO, there are just too many variables. From marks that don’t affect play, to dust in the grooves that cause pops, to an individual’s own sound system set up (i.e. what needle do they have, what turntable, what amp, what speakers). All of this affects the sound of the record that cannot be properly measured.

    It was an interesting conversation with a collector of a different thing and at the end of the day we agreed to disagree.

  • Jason; I really hate to sell records online these days just because of the variables of vinyl and the wide range of opinions on vinyl gradings. I always grade pretty conservative but I still run into the odd quack who’ll point out one soft isolated tic or light scuff and demand the moon back in a refund. It’s a shame really…and I hear of worse scams too out there…

  • Mark – I’m with you…that’s why I stopped selling on eBay. I still sell some on discogs, but mostly the common records. I’ve started to connect with other collectors via Instagram and made some sales and trades through the connections. That’s actually been awesome! If anyone ever wants to connect, find me JasonH5 is my username.

  • Gregory The Fish

    jason, i’m going to look you up. i’m jazz_peasant. i trade with other IG jazz friends regularly.

  • Jason. Sent you a request as well (I’m gstvinyl). Mine is private, but if someone wants to join hit me up with a PM at http://londonjazzcollector.freeforums.net/

    I’m thinking I should just use this account for albums and create a second one for family who couldn’t care less about my collection.

  • did anyone have a punt on the UK based Jazz Auction?..
    I agree with Al, not that much of interest for myself, so I didn’t

  • geoffrey wheeler

    Wining bid on this Period LP was $1300.00.

  • There’s also the scam of false bidding on a record so the final price is recorded on popsike but the top bidder never completed the sale. One of the most glaring example of this is the highest price copy of BLP1568 that supposedly went for $9217 on 2015-05-27. On March 8th of this year they posted it again stating that it had never been paid for and this time it sold for $5238.
    The thing is, if you went to popsike to see what is the top price you should bid for BLP1568 you would believe that $5238 is a bargain to pay for a $9217 record when that price is just a fantasy.
    This happens a lot more often than you’d like to think it does.

  • @Adamski. There was a few lots/individual albums I would have bid on if it wasn’t for the condition. Too much stuff in the VG or lower range.

  • geoffrey wheeler

    Credits for Period LP.

    Bass – Doug Watkins (tracks: B1, B2), Eddie Jones (tracks: B3), Wendell Marshall (tracks: A1 to A3)
    Drums – Elvin Jones (tracks: B3), Jo Jones (tracks: B1, B2), Kenny Dennis (tracks: A1 to A3)
    Engineer [Recording] – Charles Raucher (tracks: A1 to A3), Jerry Newman (tracks: B1 to B3)
    Liner Notes – Leonard Feather
    Piano – Gil Coggins (tracks: A1 to A3), Jimmy Jones (3) (tracks: B1, B2), Tommy Flanagan (tracks: B3)
    Tenor Saxophone – Frank Foster (tracks: B1, B2), Sonny Rollins (tracks: A1 to A3)
    Tenor Saxophone, Flute – Frank Wess (tracks: B3)
    Trombone – Henry Coker (tracks: B3), Jimmy Cleveland (tracks: A1 to A3)
    Trumpet – Thad Jones (tracks: B1 to B3)

    Notes
    Tracks A1 to A3: Recorded in November 4, 1957 at the Belton Studios in New York City
    Tracks B1, B2: Recorded in December 24, 1956 at the Esoteric Sound Studios in New York City
    Track B3: Recorded in January 6, 1957 at the Esoteric Sound Studios in New York City

  • Adamski. I made a bunch of bids in the UK auction but didn’t win anything. I started writing a post about it this morning, but they took the auction down and I wasn’t able to get the details on the lots. I have an email out to them to see if they can help me so I can do a post. I tried to lowball a few of the items, just in case there wasn’t a lot of action.

  • Geoffrey: I may have missed something. Which album are you referring to? Mad Thad?

  • of course, it is side B of the Rollins album.

  • geoffrey wheeler

    Hi Rudolf. Yes, the B side of the Sonny Rollins Period album is Thad Jones. Some sources suggest there is a Zoot Sims track, but this is not so. Jones also recorded two other albums for Period: “(The Whole Town’s Talking About) The Jones Boys” (SPL 1206), and “Mad Thad” (SPL 1208). Everest Records acquired the Period catalog and reissued a number of its albums, including “Sonny Rollins” (1968; FS-220). The Everest catalog number is etched into the runoff as the matrix number. I also have another copy of this LP on another label, possibly Phoenix (packed away).

  • geoffrey wheeler

    Yes, one of the reissues of “Sonny Rollins Plays” is titled “Sonny Rollins & Thad Jones,” issued on Phoenix 10 (1981).

  • Geoffrey, if I am correct, there has been a French Jazztone issue of the Rollins album, with Zoot Sims track(s) for part of the Thad Jones tracks.

  • Hey all. First time poster….really dig the site. I don’t know if this is the right avenue to ask but I will give it a whirl. I stumbled upon a copy of The Amazing Bud Powell Volume 1 two nights ago. It is the Japan Blue Note version BLP 1503. and it is sealed. Now I have been reading that original BNs were not sealed (?). I know this isn’t an original but I was wondering if anyone could help me with value. and as soon as someone tells me its not rare, i’m opening it! ha. I am just getting into the older versions of vinyl and have really enjoyed it. It is like another language. Really fun stuff. So, I was just curious what type of record I had on my hands. Can provide any more info needed and I apologize if this isn’t the correct place to post this! Thanks in advance for any help provided. You are all very knowledgable! Tristan

  • Gregory The Fish

    hey tristan,

    japan blue notes were probably sealed when sold, i would guess, but that is just a guess.

    however, on the rare occasion that i buy a sealed record, i always open it, because the point for ME is to listen! it will still be an NM copy, so retain plenty of its value. but that’s for you to decide.

    do you know what company made it? it should say somewhere. perhaps at the bottom of the back cover. toshiba? king? those have some value.

  • Tristan, my favorite go-to websites to check the price of past ebay sales are popsike.com
    and collectorsfrenzy.com. Popsike is a pay to view website after a couple of look ups but collectorsfrenzy is free. CollectorsF also lists the top 25 ebay sales from the day before. A perfect way to start your day.

  • tristan (fabrini….?) – the answer to your questions are completely dependent on the catalog number of your powell title. can you share that?

    speaking in a very generalized way, japanese pressings are a varying degrees of fantastic facsimiles of original pressing.

  • geoffrey wheeler

    Yes, Rudolf, there is an eight-track, 12-inch European Jazztone issue J-1243 “Sonny Rollins Quintet, Thad Jones Ensemble, Zoot Sims Quartet: Hot, Cool, Modern.” The three Jones tracks on the Period LP are complete on this Jazztone issue, but the Rollins tracks on this LP are: Sonnymoon for Two, Like Someone in Love, and Hot and Cool Blues. The two Zoot Sims listed tracks are: How Do I Love You, and Knotty Pine. Under the Zoot Sims discography, these two plus a Hot and Cool Blues and Like Someone in Love are attributed to Sims. The only issue of “Like Someone in Love” is shown as Guilde du Jazz J-1243. As we can see from the actual track listing on Period 1204, the Sims tracks are not included. Besides, I believe they were drawn from the Dawn label. Jazztone J-1243 was also issued in France by Guilde du Jazz as J-1243. I believe I may have a tape of this album. As we can see, there is some confusion as to who recorded what and what the original sources were.

  • Geoffrey: of course, it is the Rollins side which is most interesting aspect of this Period album. If on 1204 the third tune is the Symphonie Pathétique, Jazztone has “Hot and Cool Blues. This tune is neither mentioned in Jepsen, nor in the excellent Sonny Rollins discography by Thorbjoern Sjoegren (Bidstrup, Denmark, 1993. I wonder what this track is all about. Could it be a re-naming of the Symphonie Pathétique or is it a new, unknown track?

  • Hey all. Thanks so much for the answers!

    Gregory the Fish, thanks for input. And I agree, I buy vinyl to listen! love it. It says Toshiba-EMI Limited. First price sticker on cover is from a store called Kinokuniya, which I can only assume is Japanese. I don’t think that means anything but throwing it out there!

    Woody, Thanks for your thoughts! im playing around with those sites now.

    bongohito, thanks! would that be the BLP 1503 number? that is all i am really seeing without opening.

    thanks again to everyone! Again, just starting out on vinyl collecting and really digging it.

  • geoffrey wheeler

    Rudolf–As I’m sure you know, “Symphonie Pathetique” is based on Tchaikovsky’s Symphony No. 6 (Pathetique). I, too, had wondered if possibly Guilde du Jazz had renamed the tune, but why do that–why conceal “Symphonie Pathetique”? The questionable Guilde titles attributed to Rollins on the album are listed in the Zoo Sims discography (Arne Astrup, Denmark), so they relate to Sims, not Rollins. (Over the decades, an incredible number of discographies have been published in the jazz field, more so than in any form of music I know of. I do not have Jepsen. I looked at several volumes and found they were glue-bound, not sewn-bound, which would have made for a far-more-durable book.)

  • Tristan – check this site: https://microgroove.jp/bluenote-jpn/
    It has a lot of information on the various Japanese Blue Note series.
    It seems that your copy of Bud Powell dates from 1983-1988: Toshiba EMI era, part 2. I would say it’s worth around $25~30.

  • Gregory The Fish

    Peter, I was gonna guess $40, but to the right buyer. You definitely have better sources than I do. Ha.

  • Geoffrey: so the Hot and Cool Blues is not a Rollins title, but one by Zoot replacing “Pathétique”. I wonder why.
    Jepsen is the discography which I use most frequently, despite its shabby presentation. The pages are falling out and get loose. As a remedy, people I know have had the whole series professionally sew-bound with a linen hard cover.

  • @tristin – that’s the blue note catalog number. we’re looking for the japanese catalog number. it will be something along the lines of “tocj-1234” (four letters, a dash, followed by four numbers). regardless, in japan, this title should not sell for over $50.00 usd, pre-owned. what it retailed for new is what your catalog number will tell us.

    and yes, kinokuniya is a japanese retailer (primarily bookstores and groceries).

  • Hey bongohito….Thanks for response!

    Where is the Japanese # located? not seeing it …. just seeing the BLP.

    Thanks again for help here! Tristan

  • it’s on the obi-stip, back bottom of the sleeve, the label itself, or stamped into the dead wax.

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