A Pair of Tranes, a Pair of Blue Notes
Here’s some more jazz vinyl we’ve been watching on eBay, starting with John Coltrane, Giant Steps, Atlantic 1311. This was an original black label pressing. It was listed in Ex condition for the record and VG+ for the cover. With three days left in the auction the action was so light that I thought, perhaps, I would even have a chance for this at a price that would fit my sensibilities. Fat chance. It wound up selling for $822.
I’ve bee noticing that this one seems to fetch a bit higher prices than some of the other Dexter Gordon Blue Notes and I can’t figure out why: Dexter Gordon, One Flight Up, Blue Note 84176. This was an original stereo pressing listed in M- condition for the record and VG+ for the cover. It sold for $360, which is up there for a stereo copy.
On the other hand, this one sold for less than expected:
Art Taylor, AT’s Delight, Blue Note 4047. This looked to be an original mono pressing with the West 63rd Street address, deep grooves, etc. It was listed in VG+ condition for the record and VG++ for the cover. It sold for $320.99. I would guess the price was influenced by the seller’s description of a “reelable” scratch, although he said it did not affect the sound. If I were a bidder I’d be cautious as well.
John Coltrane (and others), Wheelin’ and Dealin’, Prestige 7131. This was an original pressing with the New York yellow labels as well as the grey cover. The seller listed it in Ex condition for the record and the cover. Based on the pictures of the cover, it would look like what I would consider to be VG+. I assume the record would be the same. This one sold for $343. I think we’ve discussed before where people place this in their collections. I know there are a lot of you who organize your records by label, so it’s easy to just place this with the Prestiges. For myself, who organizes alphabetically by artist, this one has always been with my other Coltranes.
Regarding the Dexter I bid on it but did not win – even though I went a little crazy in putting in a quite high bid. Or so I thought. Anyway, I prefer the BN Stereos to monos from this time.
i agree with Shaft, once you get into the 4100 series and beyond, stereo is done well enough for my sensibilities that it doesn’t matter to me one way or the other. plus, some titles, such as don cherry’s “symphony for improvisers” which is an all-time favorite of mine, simply MUST be enjoyed in stereo to get the full effect!
it has been atop the want list for quite some time, but if i snagged it, i would file “wheelin” under W for frank wess. despite my coltrane love, i feel it is most proper to file by the artist who appears first on the cover from the top left, if no standout leader is given. the pains of being in a relationship with a historical archivist, i suppose. but i quite like her system for documents and have adapted a lot of it for my collection of records.
This leads to some weird occurrences, as it seems to have been a habit of labels to list co-leaders in one order on the jacket, and the opposite order on the spine. JJ and Kai are especially guilty of this!
I was watching that Dexter as well. Went for double what I thought it would. Guess it will have to stay on my want list for awhile.
as GTF, I’ve filed Wheelin’ under Wess.
but I never filed my Tenor Conclave under Mobley.
it’s filed under Tenor Conclave!
That Art Taylor is a good record but with groove wear and a feelable scratch I wouldn’t pay through the nose. It is true that some older BNs play through these issues without incident, but when I’ve had fried 1500 or 4000 series BNs, they’ve sounded about as good as they looked… (toasted)
Dexter´s “Flight” was recorded in Paris. In stereo this one has the best sound ever compared with all other BN´s. One of my favorites !!!
I am typing this under an alias so I don’t suffer the wrath and I don’t want to hijack a thread as I’m sure it’ll be posted eventually but I would love to know how Djukics current listing of the Hank Mobley LP (which is currently at $1500) can be considered VG++ in the cover department. The thing is torched. Brown tape all over it. Intense staining. It’s comedy at its best.
Check out the Hank Mobley “Roll Call” listing and read the comments at the bottom.
That’s Bob for ya!
AliasmanJr – good night, what a cop-out. That copy of “Roll Call” is plainly a 1966 Liberty – no DG, no ear, and a 1966 inner sleeve.
I have nothing against Bob’s puffery – I blame the buyer for not knowing better and not caring about the difference between “it’s an original and here, objectively, is why” and “I think it’s an original because I refuse to take a position on what is original therefore it’s an original.”
I just wanna know who the buyers are that buy his BS? It is kinda fascinating
oh yeah, that 1568 is toast. I know someone who sold a roughed up copy a few years ago calling it for what it was, maybe G+ or VG-, and got several hundred for it. But why settle for $800 when you can get $2500? After all, neither copy is going to get listened to.
Bob Djukic is a hustler, nothing more nothing less. He’s just trying to rid himself of the actual facts that makes a 1st pressing a 1st pressing and sell anything as original and 1st pressings just to make as much money as possible. It’s easier, of course, for him to claim that he doesn’t care about deep grooves, ears and so on, that there’s no evidence that those markings makes an LP a 1st pressing, so he can, in his egocentric, full of nonsense lala land, fool people who have no clue of what a 1st pressing should look like.
There’s a reason why these 1st pressing copies are so rare. He’s just probably frustrated that he can’t find 1st pressings to sell, so he makes stuff up so he can make some dough off of clearly, later pressings. It’s dishonest hustling at it’s worst. And clueless collectors with no knowledge, just money, buys into the nonsense listings he puts up. It’s tragic.
Sorry for the rambling, but it’s irritating to say the least.
“It’s easier, of course, for him to claim that he doesn’t care about deep grooves, ears and so on…”
True, but he sure does like to point out (with close up pictures) the “ear” or DG when present!
Right Aaron, like I said, a hustler.
Since we’re talking about authenticity of first pressings, I found this blog post interesting regarding the proper labels for Mobley’s Blue Note 1568 “Know Your Blue Notes”). Not to start another emotional thread, as we’ve been down that path before, but I found the definitive tone worthy to note.
http://vinyl-house.tumblr.com/post/113191349665/know-your-blue-notes#notes
The combination of the grading and the photos for the 1568 jacket is pretty strong evidence that the seller overgrades, and I find it hard to believe that the record plays near mint as the description says. (The seller claims the labels are clean and wear-free with the disclaimer that there’s a rather large defacing on one of them…?)
I just read the seller’s comments at the bottom of the Roll Call auction. The deep groove on Blue Notes may ultimately be nothing more than a characteristic suggesting the vintage of a particular Blue Note, but without question the ear is a tell tale indicator whether a Blue Note record was pressed before or after 1966. The evidence mainly lies in the fact that not a single new release after 1966 has an ear, and that for every new release prior to 1966 copies with an ear exist. Finally, I assume that there are two reasons why the ear is of paramount importance for Blue Note records specifically, 1) People care about these records a lot more than records from other labels, and 2) I would suspect that subsequent pressings on other labels pressed by Plastylite have other indicators like different labels that make the ear less important or unnecessary.
i can’t believe he’s never been reprimanded by ebay-Bob Djukic, that is. is his shill network so extensive? everybody (and i do mean every semi-serious to very serious collector on ebay) knows he’s full of baloney and i can’t believe ignorant collectors are out there in such droves that every auction he has turns into some kind of can’t miss event. a fool and his money are easily separated? yes, maybe for a certain time period but perpetually? i don’t buy it…
Bob d’s beat up copy of “Brilliant Corners” is at $816…lol
Ebay prob doesnt reprimand him because the higher his stuff sells the more they make.
That NY23 discussion above makes some sense. But does anyone really know for sure?
I personally find it unlikely that NY23 copies of records like 1568 and Blue Train were pressed at a separate time prior to the W63 both sides pressings, and likewise I have always thought of them all as first pressings.
There is considerable evidence that the NY23 label was printed before the W63 label. It is also true that labels were sometimes used willy-nilly when both were available. At the time of the pressing of 1568 it would seem that the NY23 was used predominantly in the early run, while later (but still quite early on) both were being used – hence the general (but clearly not universal) opinion that the NY23 represents the true first. IMHO, given two otherwise identical copies (with regard to pressing),one NY23 the other W63, I would go for the one in better condition rather than slavishly preferring the NY23. But, as I said, that is only my opinion.
@Earl : agreed. To me it seems obvious that the NY23 and W63 labels are part of the same run. There are many other examples of transition and overlappings in the Blue Note catalog. The 1568 was never reissued by Blue Note, an unique run (both with NY23 one side and W63rd two labels) was pressed and issued. IMHO; it seems unreal that we still are discussing about this facts. They are so well known among exeprienced collectors.
Interesting about that sealed Giant Steps … “guaranteed original 1st pressing” screaming in the posting header, yet further down, such qualifiers as “almost certainly”, “estimated to be”, “consistent with” blah blah … and a 40% probability by Mr. Bob himself of it being a black label. How do you calculate such a statistic?? If I had the excess discretionary moolah, I might take the bet. Not at $1000+.
Jeff;
All of that would be fine, if not for one thing: if you break the seal and find it is NOT a first pressing, BD will NOT give you a refund – his policy on refunding of sealed albums is specifically stated thusly.
True. I asked Bob about what recourse if his “100% GUARANTEED ORIGINAL FIRST PRESSING” turns out to be a later pressing and he replied “None whatsoever, I am afraid.” So what does this 100% guarantee actually guarantee? His response “That means that the seller has attested that, to his best knowledge, knowledge and belief, the disc is the original, first pressing.” Great.
So then it should read, “100% GUARANTEED PERSONAL BELIEF OF ORIGINAL FIRST PRESSING”. So I was thinking, if one had access to a fiber optic scope/camera, the seal is only 40% intact according to Bob, so maybe one could insert the scope/camera and determine the label? Or maybe X-ray? Any forensics or espionage specialists out there who could recommend the proper equipment? Haha.
How the heck did he get $157 for Bill Evans Trio ’64?? I paid $10 for that at my local store. Oh, that’s right, because its “SUPER/MEGA/EXTREMELY/VERY RARE”
Also, he just got nearly $7k for a Roland Kirk album: http://www.collectorsfrenzy.com/details/161623845362/ROLAND_KIRKTRIPLE_THREATINSANELY_RARE_ORIG56_KING_MONO_LPDEEP_GROOVENR_MINT
Bob got 800 for a 1577 with R & Inc… the world is mad !
Uh,guys? Is it just me or is this starting to sound like an endless “wish I could get prices like that for my listings” gripe session? None of the legitimate points that are being made now(and have been made in the past)seem to have had the slightest effect on the buying habits of his-seemingly-dedicated buyers. At this point only one question remains-why drive ourelves nuts over it? Bobdasnook is happy,his buyers are happy(for now)and we should be happy,TOO–for we are lucky to be well-versed and knowledgeable enough about the record “BIZ” to not allow ourselves to be ripped off. And yes,I can admit to being a part of the “wish I got those prices” club. But not at the risk of sacrificing my integrity,neither as a seller OR collector of this music that we love. And truthfully,I think if one loves the music more than one seeks profit(at any cost),it’s a simple choice to make. I’ve made mine,and clearly Bobdasnook has made his. The rest,as they say,is strictly “buyer beware”…until a “Lemon Law” that applies to lp sales goes into effect-ya know?
In the words of Horsti62 “the world is mad”! Just my 2 cents…
preach, ceedee. preach.
every auction Bob get this reaction!
You gotta hand it to him!
haha
$1200 for that sealed Spiritual Unity – which may or may not have first pressing labels and a book – is just insane. And his rock records went ballistic!
I think most of his records auctions are on consignment. We all must admit that everytime he auctions a bunch of record it steals the show. Almost 7000 $ for Triple Threat ? Wow ! How much could i get for this one if ever i auction it ? Bob D is a mystery to me.
One positive is I guess it kinda brings up market value on some of the lps we own
Is the version with red labels and black letters the first? (talking about Spirital unity)
If you suddenly needed to sell your collection and were not into selling on ebay yourself, wouldn’t you want BD to sell it for you? After all is said and done he would undoubtedly get the best prices for you. Greed is good, isn’t it?
I asked Bob if he still consigned a year ago and he said he no longer does due to tax reasons
Charlie: yes, red labels and black letters is the first issue.
There is an even rarer brown silkscreen cover with black image/text in a numbered edition. I believe that was mostly sent to critics in a pre-release version.
Thanks for the information Clifford.
“I asked Bob if he still consigned a year ago and he said he no longer does due to tax reasons” If so i wonder where the hell he finds all those incredible records. Looks like an endless source.
In one of BD’s listings (Zoot Stretching OUT), the album is sealed (original he says), there is a stamp on the back cover N.R. Can anyone tell me why this would appear on the cover of a factory sealed album?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZOOT-SIMS-w-AL-COHN-STRETCHING-OUT-INSANELY-RARE-SEALED-ORIGINAL-1959-UA-MONO-LP-/351336101663?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cd43771f&nma=true&si=XWj36Pwrlw7DLDBzatP7a3W7mno%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
So I just listed some records last night, and was curious to see my VG WLP copy of Phil Woods “Warm Moods” quickly shoot to $168. As we all know, jazz LP auctions typically stay pretty quiet until near the end, so I was kind of (pleasantly) surprised. I took a look at the bidder and was interested to see that he/she recently won several of BobD’s auctions. Perhaps this supports a theory that yes, the BobD stuff is madness, but apparently there are bidders who simply have money to spend on records and bid strongly for the ones they want regardless of the seller.
Earl – distributor reseal, probably old dead stock. The N.R. stamp means something is non-returnable (i.e., a cut-out).
I’ve written about Bob the DJ u KICK many times in the past here on Jazz Collector. I guess the wisdom that Cee Dee brings is a ticket to good sleep so will pass on actual words to describe “HIS HOLY SHILLNESS.”
I guess as a “killer” seller of “records” on ebay I can just enjoy the inflated prices I can get for an RL LED ZEP II and many other titles. Makes me wish I had bought that TRIPLE THREAT I saw at Music Baron in Anaheim a few years back for $600!
Peace Out – ZARABETH
zarabeth, your enthusiasm is noticeable even when your words are typed. it always brings a smile to my face. haha.