More Jazz Vinyl Updates and A Couple of Surprises
Here’s an update on some of the jazz vinyl we’ve been watching on eBay:
Let’s start with the $1,000 bin, this one from last week: Sonny Clark, Cool Struttin’, Blue Note 1588. This was listed in M- condition for both the record and the cover. It sold for $1,675. Hmm, in the Jazz Collector Price Guide we’ve had four or five of these sell for more than $3,000. What’s going on? Is there something in the listing that would indicate this is not an original pressing? Looks good to me. I know the listing would have been enhanced by more and better pictures, but still. . .
As we saw last week, prices for certain records with Andy Warhol covers seem to be rising. Here’s an example: Kenny Burrell, Blue Note 1543. This was an original Lexington Avenue pressing — the last original Lexington Avenue, right? — and the record was VG but the cover was VG+. It sold for $833. That’s the highest we’ve seen in the Jazz Collector Price Guide for any Burrell record.
Here’s one that provides an answer to a question we posed the other day:
How much would you pay for one of the rarest of all jazz records in G condition for the vinyl and VG for the cover? The answer is $332 and the record is Jackie McLean, The New Tradition, Ad Lib 6601.
We’ll close this morning with another one that was a bit of a surprise: Hank Mobley, High Voltage, Blue Note 4273. This was an original pressing, but it was an original Liberty, and those haven’t been nearly as collectible as the pre-Liberty Blue Notes. This one was in VG+ or so condition and sold for $156.49. It was a promo copy, so perhaps that had something to do with it?
Maybe that Hank Mobley went higher because it’s MONO? I recently bought an EX/EX stereo copy of the same LP for around $20
There are some Monos that are very rare if I remember right. I don’t have Franks book in hand but this could be one of them. I bought a sealed Stereo copy for $40. Good session.
There’s currently a stereo version up BIN for around $40 bucks.. I think the mono is quite rare.
For sure, it is the Mono edition that explains the price. Mono editions were issued only for promotion purposes only in those Liberty years (as stated by the Not for sale sticker). But mono editions are rumoured to be inferior to their stereo counterparts.
I don’t think the Cool Struttin was DG. THis could be the reason.
Michel, you’re right!
The description doesn’t tell us about the “Ear” either.
So if there’s no ear, and no DG, it’s basically a Liberty pressing with the West 63rd label. How would you feel paying $1,675 for THAT!
if you look at the bottom of the page there are 3 questions about dg and ear:and the answers are precise,NO ear and NO dg.
and for me no 1000 nor 500:no bid at all.
and,for the same $1,675 look at this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SONNY-CLARK-CRIB-BLUE-NOTE-RVG-9M-MONO-47-W-63RD-TOP-NM-/380316972746?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item588ca876ca
No deep groove,apparently NO ear,INC+r on one side,NO 23.
anyone interested ?
it’s mint !
I’ve been watching that one to see if anyone grabs it. That’s crazy. I mean the seller is basically saying THIS IS NOT AN ORIGINAL but still has it at that price.
But it will not sell.
Quote “and for me no 1000 nor 500:no bid at all”.
Fully agreed Dottor. I’ll NEVER be interested in this type of pressing. Paying top dollar for a reissue is not serious collecting. And it is not even funny. Goal of this high bidder (and there are numerous) will remain a mystery to me.
Well,as the saying goes “there’s one born every minute”. And an equal number of unscrupulous sellers ready to oblige-“OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!”
“So if there’s no ear, and no DG, it’s basically a Liberty pressing with the West 63rd label. How would you feel paying $1,675 for THAT!”
THIS IS THE REAL QUESTION !!!
Maybe someone really likes the cover….;-)
Yeah this is obviously “madness” but the price picture for 2nd and 3rd pressing is going up – not?
Maybe it means the value of my reissues are going sky high. WOOO! 😉
Hello
After making my coffee, I turn on the computer type in Jazz Collector and read all the comments… I love this site and everybody’s comments. As for the Sonny Clark it does appear to be a very late pressing…And the person who sold this item in the desciption does not mention anything except 63rd Street, no pictures of the label, etc. But in the questions that were asked, they were answered honestly.
“-But in the questions that were asked, they were answered honestly.”
Nick-I agree this is a true statement..but how does the seller respond when an UNEDUCATED consumer says something like”you know,I only bid as I did on this because I assumed it an original. At that kind of money,how could it not be?” My suggestion:always note whether a recording is an original if known(duh!)-but more to the point,list that an item is a “later pressing”,”second issue” or the like. That way,at the least,the record is not mistaken for anything other than what it is(in this case,a later issue). You may get fewer bids,but you’ll also have fewer disgruntled bidders.
Right Ceedee. I do not like this “Sonny’s Crib” ebay listing. With curious mentions such as “1957 pressing”. for three reasons :
1- THis is not a ” original 1957 pressing”, but a rookie collector could think it is by reading this information.
2 – The listing NEVER mention that this record is clearly, definitely a later reissue. If it was really an honest seller he should clearly say : THIS IS NOT AN ORIGINAL.
3 – At the opposite, ALL the description tends to make a non connoisseur potential buyer that THIS an original : “9m”, “RVG”, W63rd label etc…
This kind of listing reminds me of Bob D…auctions.
sorry if I come back on THE old question:original should be referred to first pressing only.All other issues must be considered re-issues.
and the prices should be according.
if we consider both the s clark records,they aren’t first pressing.the second seller states the price (buy it now) exactly as the first one (bids).
astonishing.
Ceedee & Michel
I agree with both of you. But you must remember both of you are knowledgeable about records and very serious collectors. I think to be fair with all alot of people are selling on EBAY and they do not have a clue what is first. second, third etc..and alot of them are not going to go out and purchase books to find out
They See Sonny Clark – Sonny’s Crib and they think they have hit the mother lode. Guys you can’t educate the entire world, but you can do it one person at a time
I agree with dottorjazz, I think it would ease the communication burden if the terms “original” and “first” pressing were clearly defined across the board. So many sellers benefit by equating the two. I think the only way this will be changed is on the buyer side, the better educated they are the less likely they will fall for things like this.
Mike
I traded records all over the world before there was EBAY. I use to run ads in Goldmine. Some people have so much money they really do not care! about prices It may sound weird but this is true.. And I also believe alot of this is true with all types of collectables….And Mike you are looking for the perfect collectors experience which will never happen..
Lookee Lookee what’s back up!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Trombone-Three-Prestige-16RPM-WARHOL-CVR-/380319307561?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item588ccc1729
Euclid is the seller, from my experiences they’re pretty good.. anyone want to chance a guess as to what this’ll go for?
$2200
Hmmm..NOT $9.99?(or a heck of a lot more than I’d ever invest in a record I could never play!) Wait a minute..if lps played at 45rpm “sound better” than those played at 33 1/3,what do those played at 16 rpm sound like? Crapola?(These are the kind of questions that keep me from getting a good nights sleep)
the story:2 different records with Warhol covers in the present month.not great music in both of them,one possibly unplayable.three $ 2000,00 bids (one late).here’s the third,in better shape than the former.I have the impression buyers are interested in a multiple reproduction of the artist.Unsigned.
No matter which music is contained,just the sleeve.
I never bought one single record for the sleeve only and I had almost all the Warhol records in my hand at low prices.But I do have j griffin…
Nick, I’m not looking for a perfect collectors experience. I just would like to see things improved and the only way I can imagine this would happen is education of the collectors. That’s what this site does. It’s not perfect but is striving to improve. Other than that, people are going to do things that don’t seem rational and often shocking to others. I just hope than the readers of this site aren’t doing that. Unfortunately I think I’m preaching to the choir not the audience that needs to hear it. In the end it’s there money. If they want to do something crazy with it, that’s there right. I definitely don’t think people should judge others for the way they spend there money, especially collectors of any type whose actually don’t seem rational to most people. Sometimes I just get shocked and rush to judgment, a flaw.
to my knowledge there are 7 warhol jazz covers:
blue note:1543 k burrell,1596-1597:k burrell blue lights,j griffin the congregation,trombone by three on prestige 16 rpm,c candoli etc. cool gabriels on groove 1003 and artie shaw both feet in the groove on victor 1201.are there others I can’t remember ?
dottorjazz – there’s a Basie cover in RCA. also, a Monk cover on Prestige and a Moondog cover also on Prestige. also a Joe Newman cover, also on RCA. I think there are others — those are just off the top of my head.
I was going to mention the Moondog cover.. I wonder if his Rock Covers will go up too?
I mean, aside from the Velvet Underground one.
Indeed ‘caveat emptor’ at the end of the day….
Having said that we sometime get stuck our backsides in eulogies of ‘RVG’ ‘Deep Grooves’ and ‘Ears’…surely the main thing is whats on the wax…I knew a guy who would buy 1000+ USD records and then play them through a student soundsystem with a tonearm that looked like it was crafted from wood and a stylus you could use for home DIY!! Plus ca change…
Interesting discussion altogether so far. One thing is for sure: thanks to Jazzcollector and all the educated comments from the ‘older cats’ plus, of course, Fred Cohen’s book, I now know a LOT more and indeed enough to know that that Sonny’s Crib is not a true 1st pressing. So Mike you’re right: you can’t educate everyone at the same time, but you can educate one person at a time. I’m living proof of it 😀
Well of course the MOBLEY would go high as a mono HV is a very rare record. I had one for a day. I ripped the package open really fast, cleaned it and guess what? It was a badly oblonged groove press (think Dopler effect here!) Oh man, talk about a broken heart! Ouch! Talk about a seller who lied about the playback – he didn’t even listen to it!
As far as the SONNY CLARK record in mention, all this talk is bs as some of you did bid on it! Someone here I know personally bid $1500 and then blasts it in this post (I bid low/early!)
I just posted on the KENNY DREW page and it seems to me that there was a bit of insight there from the various postings regarding DG presses and original presses that seems to be forgotton on this page.
One thing to think about before blasting sellers with near mint very serious records is that a label can’t be added after the press is done. Seems to me the only way to have a liberty press 47 63rder would for the company to have found biscuits(the small round piece of vinyl with the label on it) from back when and then press! That seems very unlikely but much craziness does exist.
Another thing to consider is the seller. The seller of the COOL STRUTTIN’ has a very good reputation for selling jazz. Or I am assuming he does as everything I have bought from him is solid. The seller with the Sonny’s crib in question is very reputable no doubt. Given the subject matter on the DREW page once again, an original doesn’t always have to be DG, P, and 23 on the label. They could have pressed 1000s at a time originally given the father/mother plating process numbers info (once again on the DREW page) so how could all be DG presses? Companies subcontracted press work all the time so all BN originals don’t have to have a P. Labels just get used up as an employee just grabs a handful. Some old ones sit, some new ones get used! Plus c’est la meme chose…