A Blue Train Wreck?
This week’s mailbox brings a note from Don Lucky about this listing: John Coltrane, Blue Train, Blue Note 1577. It was listed as an original pressing in VG+ or VG++ condition for both the cover and the record. When the seller says the back cover is VG+, does that mean the whole cover would be considered VG+, even if the front is clean and near mint? Interesting question to ponder. More interesting are the comments from Don Lucky, which are as follows: “It has a nice cover, but it is not the original tone as defined by Fred’s book. The white “Blue Train” should be creme, the “Blue Note 1577” should be a charcoal, the “John Coltrane” green is too bright, and the photo is blue, not green-blue. This one also doesn’t show us the address on the back or list it, so in my mind its a bit of a gamble at that price.” What price was that? How about $1,880.05.
That Lee Morgan record we were watching yesterday, Blue Note 1541, which seemed to be not an original or perhaps a scam, wound up selling for $698.50 with five bidders. I guess we’ll watch the feedback on that one.
the label was New York 23. This does not match with the sleeve, which seems to be a second or third edition. Maybe it was even non-laminated. I had a similar sleeve for a stereo version (with the stereo sticker) which I got directly from Blue Note in 1965.
So an original record with a later cover?
If the labels were NY23 one side and W63 on the other, then it was a very rare vinyl version at least.
It might have been worth the gamble while it was sitting around $200 with a little more than a day until auction close. But, like so many a great Blue Note LP, it started off slow then just took off ! (I probably could have asked the seller for some additional specifics on it, but at the time I was trying to avoid the usual urge to toss in a bid or three…)
Al: many collectors would interchange vinyl and sleeves, keeping the best vinyl in the best sleeve. I have done it in the past, unaware of the later developments, i.e. collecting matching originals.
Here is another 1577 that ended recently … It was definitely not a first pressing, look at the price…
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221264677152?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_721wt_989
Regarding Blue Train cover differences, I’ve noticed on the earliest pressings the picture of Curtis Fuller on the back cover look fine but by the West 63 pressing with “INC”, black smudges appear on the side of his face that grow larger on NY and Liberty pressings.
Aaron: I noticed the smudgy face of Curtis on all my copies bought since 1959 and thought this was endemic. But, the original first I acquired two years ago has a clean face. Thank you for drawing our attention. I noticed it, without drawing the conclusion as you did.
Or this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NM-JOHN-COLTRANE-LEE-MORGAN-BLUE-TRAIN-1577-DG-RVG-EAR-47-West-63rd-ORIGINAL-/310723891074?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item4858964f82
Shuga records is always listing lps at outrageous prices. I dont know why they waste their time
Maybe they think that by listing it for $2K with a Buy It Now and allowing offers, someone will offer $1K for a 3rd pressing.
This lp’s value seems very vulnerable. It’s so high now and then they go down to more reasonable prices. Like a rollar coaster. Supply and demand is sometimes hard to comprehend. They did make a lot more of these records than say Lee Morgan – City Lights or Thad Jones Detroit to NYC. Alfred Lion wasn’t gonna take on Coltrane and not really take advantage of the star he was becoming. Still, a nice original of this lp is a stunning sight. Such a classic.
I bought a nice original for like $150 or $175 years ago. Seller said it was VG but it’s more +ish. I wouldn’t sell it for the world but at these prices – but low – sell high? Very high?
Anyone ever bought anything from that rover-DEE dude? It seems he fetches a lot more than other sellers of jazz lps. Does anyone know why? Good stuff or just the same ol shilled crap we love to give a blind eye to? Love, Orenthal James up n’ this beeatch
buy
DaveS: with an inner “27 years of Blue Note”, this means that this record was issued in 1966.
Sleeves can be changed out. The ears present and the transitional 47 w 63/new york labels probably put it around 1962 “ish”
I sold a nice ny stereo + ear press a few months back for around $200+. It was nice too! I put it in my store as I didn’t want it to go for a blow out price at auction and then regretted the fact I should of just kept it instead of letting it go for $100 or so which is probably what I would of got had I auctioned it (i don’t shill and I know my market) It took a few months to sell so I know I had it priced about right and just reinforces my play on this shilling stuff. Then again you never know! The jazz lp market is a rollarcoaster and maybe I would of got $500? Those are the variables that “may” happen but you can’t factor them in when pricing an lp. Maybe if you’re Shuga LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
zarabeth47: of course, inner sleeves can be changed, but the 27 years sleeve is a strong contra-indication. An intelligent seller would not produce it at all.
A local record dealer would routinely steal the original sleeves from jazz records and replace them with plain white ones. This place has gone out of business several times in the last ten years I think they’re headed out again.
What would he do with the original sleeves?
That’s a good question. Maybe he saves them and thinks they’ll be worth something one day. They’re so obtuse though, they may think they’re doing the customer a favor with a new sleeve. They may not have any idea that the original sleeve is worth something. They used to price record without any guide. One of the managers once told me he doesn’t have internet access and never used a computer in his life. This guy is about 50. How can anyone run a successful record store without internet access? Every major record retailer does business on the internet. It’s a necessity these days.
one often sees sellers on EBay, who will proudly state something like: “all records are mailed in a new protective polyethylene outer sleeve, and the record separate in a new poly-lined inner”. This is a client service approach which costs to seller.
I always implore them to send the original inner along, sometimes with success.
Blue Train. Blue Note 1577. Stereo gold sticker affixed. Blue Note inner sleeve. VG+. For sale. Estimated price?