Oddballs and Ends
I think CeeDee may be prodding me to post more. Yes, my friend? Anyway, he’s been sending me links with little notes. Here are the latest. This one is titled “another one from my ‘Greatest Misses’ list:” East Coasting by Charlie Mingus, Bethlehem 6019. This was an original red label pressing, featuring Bill Evans on piano. Is this the only recorded instance of Mingus and Evans together? The record and cover were in VG+ condition and the final price was about $286. Here’s one titled “This oddball LP has been fetching good bids for some years, so don’t pass it up the next time you’re browsing:” The Louvin Brothers, Satan is Real, Capital 1277. The record and cover were in VG+ condition and the price was $363.88. I have no idea what this record is and why CeeDee sent me this link. I have a feeling I am better off in my ignorant bliss, but I have a feeling someone, perhaps Mr. CeeDee, will provide an answer.
Then there was this: “Look at this on eBay. C’mon man. A clipped corner pressing from the mid-to-late 70s. Almost $300 and counting. Nuts, I say! Kenny Dorham, Afro-Cuban, Blue Note 1535. This is the one we wrote about last week from George Benson’s collection. At the time, the bidding was about $220. The final price was $510. No complaints here. The market is the market, which is whatever someone is willing to pay. As we’ve all seen, the market value for any Blue Note with blue and white labels and pressings with the “original” covers have only gone up in value over the years. People want them, and why wouldn’t they? Finally, there was this with the simple note: “Missed it!” John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman, Impulse 40. This was a mono pressing with a stereo stamp. The seller said it was mono, so I assume he listened to it. The record and cover were both in M- condition. The final price was $262. CeeDee, I think you’ve been around as long as I have, or close to it. Do you not have an original copy of John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman? Perhaps someone here will be willing to trade with you.
Speaking of trades, here’s a strange request from a reader, but I have to assume it is legitimate. He has a first pressing of John Coltrane’s Giant Steps with the black label and is interested in trading it for a first U.S. mono pressing of the Simon and Garfunkel album Bookends. I didn’t realize that Bookends was a collectible, let alone one on a par with Giant Steps, at least from a value standpoint. But, checking Popsike there has been an instance of a promo copy in the $1,000 bin and several others that have sold for more than $500. Live and learn. Anyway, if anyone is interested in contacting this would-be trader, you can reach out to me at alatjazzcollectordotcom and I can connect you.
That copy of Satan is Real is the repress too, Carolinasoul really gets top dollar for their auctions!
Yes, surprisingly Carolina Soul misrepresented “Satin is Real” as a 1962 pressing. Capitol Logo on-top came out in 1964. Capitol with Logo at left indicates a 1959 to 1963 pressing. Overall I’ve had positive experiences with Carolina Soul. They do get top dollar & have quite a presence on Ebay. “Satin is Real” is primarily sought for the zany Cover.
Simon & Garfunkel “Bookends” came out in 1968 when mono pressings basically vanished & stereo took over. So the monos are scarce. And it’s a cool landmark folk-pop album.
And what is the name of this blog ? I seemed to touch the wrong key and got somethin’ talkin about Simon and Satin. I’ll try again ….
I had a copy of that Coltrane and Hartman record. Left it on the roof of my car as i was buckling my son into his seat. Forgot about it and drove off. Luckily it was a cheap reissue. I like to think someone saw it, picked it up and enjoyed it.
I concur with Al, East Coasting is Mingus’ only recording with Bill Evans. There was a meeting between the two during the 1957 Brandeis Festival of Contemporary Music, recorded by Columbia, catalogue # WL 127. Bill Evans is performing on a composition by Mingus, “All about Rosie”. The bass was played by Joe Benjamin/ Fred Zimmerman.
On the same album Mingus is supposed to be present as “voice”.
Need this Coasting thing….right back to the penn
Since we are talking about it: “Satan is Real” is horrible (imo) fire-and-brimstone white gospel but of course has one of the most absurd covers of all time, and is collectible for that reason. The image is a real photograph of the brothers standing next to a giant wooden statue in a series of tire fires, and the Wiki page for the brothers features some hilarious info about their lives and the album. Worth reading.
Rudolf, I think you mean Revelations which was written by Mingus and appears on the Brandeis album. All About Rosie is by George Russell and features a wonderful middle section featuring Evans, but no Mingus connection. Rosie was also recorded earlier by Russell as Concerto For Billy The Kid, which also features Evans.
Oh and BTW Satin is indeed real, but I don’t know about Satan.
Bill, you are absolutely right.
My bad….”Satan” not Satin.
Loved me that Mingus record, especially for the tune ‘Celia.’ It was a hard lp to get rid of.
The autobiography of the Louvin Brothers is also called “Satan is Real” and is highly recommended – it’s a wild read, even if you don’t like country music (which I don’t).
Geez,folks. I had no idea my little “heads up” would generate these responses. My thinking is simple: How many times how you found yourself searching the record bins and restricted yourself to the JAZZ section,solely? I know I have. My point is that with the crazy prices some vinyl is going for these days,is that a missed opportunity? If you thought you could score a rarity (of any genre) for a few bucks,just by looking through the racks a few feet over…would you? I don’t go crate-diggin’ too often,but some folks don’t go at all-by choice or lack of opportunity.
So,if prices are up,up,up…so are my chances to score something that I can “flip” in order to buy-you guessed it,more jazz.
BTW, “Simon and Satan” was gonna be the name that Simon and Garfunkel used initially,but Art insisted on top billing “as befitting The Prince of Darkness”. Originally “Tom and Jerry”, Art wanted something with a harder edge,reportedly. They nearly came to blows, but Garfunkel eventually conceded when John Hammond intervened.
Soon after,Hammond would relate this tale to one Miles Davis,also a Columbia artist. The story goes that Miles didn’t have much to say in response until Hammond got to a certain point:
“Prince of Darkness,huh?”
Miles smiled…
Hi. I’m the one that sold the John and Johnny. The matrix was stamped for mono. Also play was mono. The label had the stereo in addition to mono ID. Weird. Beautiful record. Buyer also confirmed Mono. I hate ‘sellers remorse’!
Interesting post! Here are some comments from me.
1. Just before the pandemic, there was a beautiful shrikwrapped mono copy of Bookends at one of my local shops. At that time, it was under different management, and the record was priced very reasonably at sub $100. Then, within a couple of weeks everything shut down. I missed the reopening by a couple of weeks and the record had sold. Would have I traded it for a black label Giant Steps in good condition? In a heartbeat. But I am not upset because I already own a VG++ copy.
2. Strangely, almost all earlier Capitol lps by the Louvin Brothers are fairly scarce and collectible despite being the kind of awful white gospel.
3. Ceedee, I spent all the second half of the 90s looking exclusively through jazz bins. Not an inch off to either side. I am sure I never laid my eyes on thousands of potential treasures. But I also ignored hundreds upon hundreds that I touched with my own hands. What were they? As Al said above, anything with that blue and white label is now a kind of treasure. I vividly remember being annoyed and even feeling some degree of disgust when I pulled records only to see those dreadful words: “Division of United Artists.” Or “Liberty” on pre-Liberty releases. What did I know? Had I created a kind of Red Carraro’s garage full of those cheapie pressings, I could have probably retired to a small castle in Europe by now. 🙂
I am skeptical about an ability to unearth treasures in any notable quantity in whatever bins – jazz or not – at this point in time. While I value the presence of Discogs as a quick music style reference for records I am not familiar with, it made almost everyone (even places like Goodwill!) an immediate “expert” of sorts in rarities. Including the shop owners, who, let’s face it, mostly price at Discogs + shipping nowadays. Exceptions are rare when records are priced with intention of making good music affordable. There was one local place like that but sadly that person passed away last year.
Ilya,I see your point re: rare lps. Everybody and his brother is an expert these days. And yet..YouTube has a cottage industry,videos of locals driving across town to Goodwill for a score,finding some rare New Jazz lp in a box in their local hardware store because the unsuspecting owner’s wife ” just wanted the stuff outta the house”. You know- “your pain,my gain”. I get it. As usual,it’s the one box of records that you didn’t GET to look through that will always have what you REALLY wanted- might there be “gold in them thar hills?”
It’s a curse.
The mention of Red Cararro always brings up memories of him working on the pipes(or something) in the basement of City College,mid-70’s. We would trade periodically after class–Zoot Sims was his MAIN guy,no question. I picked up a few Liberty pressings from him for a BN or two that didn’t mean anything to me …at the time. DOH!
Red,Daytons(downtown)with “Fat Jay” behind the counter-“That Riverside? $65.00. Uh,Hampton Hawes? On Contemporary? $65.00” C’mon, Jay! I’m
lucky if I’m making $4 an hour on my job-who can afford that? Jay,a very stout man with an abundance of business sense,if not personality,stood guietly behind the raised counter and peered down at me from behind his black-framed glasses as if to say-silently-“Next!”
Thus began my introduction to the “If you have to ask,you can’t afford it” New York School of Business,’70s style.
Ceedee, it’s interesting that the prices you mentioned existed in the 70s. Thinking back to mid- to late-90s, I can’t think of a Contemporary LP over $40. Perhaps, a mint Art Pepper Meets Rhythm Section or a Way Out West? Although, back then I thought all the Greenwich Village shops were nuts, so I shopped mostly between Flatiron and East Village.
On the other hand, Doo Wop and Rhythm & Blues Lps are much more affordable now than 25 years ago if one is in that sort of thing.
I would not call the bargain bins a lost cause just yet. Although I don’t have much to mention in regards to jazz, I do have several great finds that I’ve made in bargain bins or just in “New Arrivals” at my local record store. Starting with their dollar bin… I found a decent copy of Palo Congo by Sabu that was about to go in there (the guy was pricing records right then), and I snatched it up. It has a few scuffs and scratches, but plays well… maybe VG/VG-, if we weigh cosmetics heavily and grade conservatively. It’s the first pressing. It would sell on eBay at about $350 or more. I’ve also found a promotional copy of After the Gold Rush by Neil Young, a copy of Odessey and Oracle by The Zombies that I flipped for over $60 that the buyer later resold for $125, the odd test pressing of 70s rock bands (they sell for a fair amount on eBay), numerous Miles Davis records and the odd Coltrane record (my initial copy of A Love Supreme was in that dollar bin), et cetera. I also once heard that a bunch of Lightnin’ Hopkins and Howlin’ Wolf records got dumped in there and sold pretty much immediately, and I once walked in to see a guy with a bunch of Blue Notes under his arm checking out, all with dollar bin stickers, Empyrean Isles on top… apparently they had some mold on the covers. I don’t like mold, but for $1 I can put some rubbing alcohol on them and sleeve ‘em. (A copy of In A Silent Way had been left behind by that guy… I bought it.) I’ve also found an original promo copy of Mingus Ah Um for two dollars, my copy of Coltrane at Birdland was a whopping $7.99, I snagged a decent first pressing of Birth of the Cool for a tender, and outside of jazz, I found a first press of Milo Goes to College (rare punk record that sells for over $300) for either $10 or $15 and a nice copy of The White Album with all 7 label errors for $10… which, after further inspection, turned out to be the pressing with the rare rejected master that Harrison himself requested they destroy and redo (they had run the mix through an equalizer), making my copy… I dunno, the 25th known copy? Apparently I could sell it for over $1,000. And even wall stuff is worth looking at. I found a nearly mint original U.K. pressing of Pink Moon by Nick Drake for $30 up there, and it’s worth 20 times that. Circling back to jazz, I went in there once to find nice first press copies of Lou Takes Off and ‘Round About Midnight at the Café Bohemia for $60 and $100 respectively. I bought them, but I only got to hear about the copy of Swing Swang Swingin’ that got up on the wall for $100 the next day… another guy there bought it and told me all about it. All of this was in the last handful of years, save for the copy of A Love Supreme, which was more like 10 years ago. Sure, not the absolute best scores in the world (that award goes to the guy a few years back that found an original copy of the Me and the Devil blues 78 by Robert Johnson at an estate sale for dirt cheap… lucky bastard…), but… don’t write off your local record store or the bargain bins. Most of the time you’ll find squat, but sometimes you may find something cool. Not all record stores kneel at the throne of eBay when pricing, and if you befriend the clerks, they just might put things aside for you or let you look at cool stuff first. There are good buys to be made.
*tenner, not “tender”
I get that that’s not the most common slang term in the states, but still… come on, autocorrect. Either way, I think I made my point just fine, even with the typo.
Speaking of, actually, I was told about the value of the mono Bookends by a guy that was a regular at the local record store that was known as “Dollar Mike” because he would come in, buy often about 50 dollar records, and leave. I haven’t seen him much lately… apparently he takes issue with the mask mandate and hasn’t been in much. Last time I saw him he was heading out maskless saying something along the lines of “I will not comply!” Anyways, he told me to look out for those, since they were valuable. He said he had found a few in the dollar bin because nobody really knows about them… they’re very collectible, yet most people don’t have a clue, so they might just end up in the bargain bins. Kinda proves Ceedee’s point, doesn’t it?
Weasel,I love your stories! The image of Dollar Mike striking a blow for freedom is priceless-although let’s hope that the reason you haven’t seen him for a while is that he’s “fighting against ( insert cause here)” and not related to his issues with clothing choices. Dollar Mike, there are lots of LP bins awaiting your perusal. So, just wear the damn mask,OK? ?
BTW,once more on those bins. If someone reading likes to pull the best selections from the jazz CD or LP browser,buy a couple, but stick the rest in the “Soundtracks” or “Avantgarde” section and come back later in the week..I’m onto you! I will NOT be deterred from looking for a killer recording just because you shove it behind a copy of the “Attack Of The Killer Tomatoes” S/T or place it in the midst of John Zorns latest game theory releases.
So,don’t even THINK about it… ?
Heh, Dollar Mike… he’s a character. I think I heard that he has a side-gig making replica Butcher Covers (Beatles) for people that can’t afford real Butcher Covers… he buys copies of Yesterday… and Today and puts replica Butcher Cover slicks on them made using a real slick as reference, because he apparently has one and has a means of making high-quality copies of that slick. He says they’re replicas when selling them, so I guess it’s all ethical. I wasn’t super surprised to hear that he had issues with the masks, since he had been a big Rush Limbaugh fan, regularly taking the opportunity to gush over Rush to people that, uh, don’t want to hear about Rush. I’m pretty sure he’s doing alright, though… him leaving maskless declaring that he won’t comply with the mask mandate was within the last month. Before that I hadn’t seen him since April or May of 2020, when he was again bucking the mask rule… the store (The Next Record Store- formerly The Last Record Store- in Santa Rosa, CA) had closed up for the shutdown, only being “open” so that people could pick up orders they made online (the only way they could legally operate then), but they were still buying stuff, and they were letting individual people show up to look at things, only on a one-person basis by special appointment, which I think complied with county rules. They weren’t technically open for business. Masks and distancing still applied. Anyways, one of the guys got in touch with me by finding me at work in their free time to tell me that they had got some great dollar records- a bunch of Zeppelin, Sabbath, Beatles, even a copy of Electric Mud by Muddy Waters… all stuff I can totally sell (except for the Muddy Waters… I didn’t have that yet, so I kept it)- and that I should stop by. When I showed up, Dollar Mike was finishing up looking at some other records, and they had had to bring everything for him to look at out front of the store right by a very busy street with them watching him through the window, because not only did he refuse to wear a mask… he didn’t even have one, but still insisted on looking through records. He was a valued long-time customer, so they made allowances for him, but they weren’t gonna get shut down by letting him in the store. I think he paid in cash from outside the door. It was nice to see that he didn’t die, but come on, Mike… wear the mask. I enjoyed hearing those tips about vinyl that was worth looking out for.
And yeah, people hide stuff in the store on occasion. The worst day for that was Record Store Day pre-shutdown… the rule was one copy per person of any release, so people would try to be clever and would grab two or whatever of sought-after releases and then either stick them in the wrong section so they could find them later or hide them while waiting in line to check out. The guys there know that routine… they go around the store looking for these stashes throughout the day and put them right back in the sections.
And yeah… the guys running the store have mixed feelings towards eBay. They sometimes use it for selling the really rare stuff (they have to pay rent), and they’ll use it for pricing reference for really special things that show up in the store, but in general they don’t like some of the trouble eBay has caused in regards to record pricing. It has made some stuff impossible for many people to get ahold of, and it also means that anybody with an internet connection can somehow come to the incorrect conclusion that their copy of The White Album is worth four digits. (My copy of The White Album actually being worth four digits doesn’t negate the fact that most copies of The White Album are not actually worth four digits.) I’ve heard two separate stories of people calling them to tell them they have The White Album, with one guy casually saying he wanted $3,000 for a mediocre copy that was maybe worth $30, tops. They won’t just give things away, but they know that they’re running a record store instead of an eBay store. One of my favourite examples of this was when it was just me and the former owner (he retired) about 20 minutes before closing time… he had found a sealed original copy of the early 70s German prog album Nevergreen! by The Missing Link, and had just looked it up. It sells for between $200-$400 opened, and this one was sealed and untouched. It could be worth $500 or more sealed, and there was no second pressing in the 70s. This was the real deal. He declared that he had hit the jackpot, I congratulated him on it, he looked it over grinning silently for a moment, and just casually said, “I’ll sell it to ya for $100.” These places still exist, and these record store owners still exist. You won’t always find gold- in fact, you very rarely will- but… sometimes, you just might.
Ok,Weasel, let me get this straight: Dollar Mike was actually in a “gush over Rush” and the store that he frequents is now called The Next Record Store which was once,before reopening,The Last Record Store? Ok, I got it. I just wanted to confirm it before I mulled over the one about his making real(fake) replicas of Beatles butcher covers. Wow. This is a lot to handle before my morning coffee!
Thanks for the well-told tales. They remind me that there is something very important behind the “things” we search out,and that’s people..and their stories.
Yeah… the story with the name was that it had been The Last Record Store since I think ‘83, and then one of the owners retired. He apparently had rights to the name, and wanted to be paid a bit more for it. They didn’t want to do that. So, he kept the name, and they came up with The Next Record Store. That was in May… I haven’t had enough time to find amazing things for nothing there, admittedly. It’ll probably take a year or two before I’ve got a few new great stories of wonderful finds, but I have been having a different kind of luck there. They keep getting expensive stuff that I can buy and resell for more. $50 for an unofficial issue of the soundtrack to Lost In Translation. Over $200 on eBay. $150 for a first pressing of Milo Goes to College (they realized that it’s worth more than $10 or $15 this time). Nearly $400 on eBay. $100 for a mint MoFi of Dark Side of the Moon. $200 on eBay. I’ve also had a lot of “price tag says $20, internet says $50-$75” going on there as of late, although mostly in the realm of punk and late 80s stuff that didn’t get big vinyl releases but wouldn’t obviously be valuable, like the first Tracey Chapman album. It has been kind to me financially. I mean, this jazz vinyl ain’t gonna buy itself, padding my wallet on the side by reselling cool expensive stuff I bought at the record store is mutually beneficial. Best “expensive for cheap” deal so far there is probably $10 for a rare KISS record I’ll get $50+ for, but… that doesn’t count in this conversation. Nobody wants to think about Gene Simmons right now. I did find an early issue of Birth of the Cool in the dollar bin a couple weeks ago, and it actually played nice, but it looked rather grim, so… that’s probably more of a happy accident than a case of an overlooked gem getting tossed in the bargain bin. I wouldn’t have guessed that it would sound that nice while looking like Freddy Krueger used it as a frisbee. 50s vinyl is a lot hardier than it looks.
And yeah… Mike really loved Rush Limbaugh and liked talking about how he just found him likable and thought he had a great personality. He just thought Rush was a really swell guy. I’m pretty sure my thoughts on that matter can be assumed and left unwritten. The store owners are all Grateful Dead/ Jerry Garcia fans, so their thoughts on Rush kinda aligned with my own. Basically, we all thought it best to let Dollar Mike like what Dollar Mike likes.
I would like to find the old Jazzcollector website, you remember the old one too ? Seems the new one was hacked ….
It’s not exactly a bargain bin find, but just yesterday I found an original mono issue of Sunday at the Village Vanguard by the Bill Evans Trio for $100 at that same record store. It isn’t perfect, but it’s far from bad, and would fetch a few times that or so on eBay. I’m happy to add it to my collection. The person that brought it in apparently lives in Sonoma… they brought a few records by a few days back and left them there for the guys to look through, and I saw Soultrane and some Miles Davis peeking out of the stack. Those didn’t end up on the sales floor… that guy remembered that those had belonged to his late father, so he didn’t end up selling them. But he didn’t mind parting with the Evans. Of course, modern times being modern times, I had to wait for the clerk to finish dealing with a lady with a box full of mutilated mass-selling 70s rock and her husband that was arguing with the owner over his offer for it via video call before I could see if those records were available. There is a bit of truth to the statement that most everybody thinks they’re an expert because they have internet access… you can’t sell a record for top dollar if it’s unplayable, and arguing with the local record store owner on a video call about how he should pay you enough to buy a new iPhone for stuff you couldn’t even sell for enough to buy an old Nokia simply because the artists are recognizable doesn’t change that. C’est la vie….
Weasel, there is a certain skill set that comes with crate diggin’ and waiting to look through some just arrived lps-without appearing TOO interested-is one of them. Another is the old “Well,what about this?” routine. You know-the one where you take a bunch of records to the counter to get costs(assuming they’re not marked) and get prices on records YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST IN. If things go according to plan,the prices will be “too much”(true or not) before you get to what you REALLY want..at which point a (lo-info) seller may just give you the MOST “reasonable ” price,even if only to get rid of you. “Ok,look..just give me(whatever) for those, alright? How’s that?” At which point you reach in your pocket for whatever funds you were hoping to pay for the haul. This technique always works better if preceded by a “Give me a cash price” sweetener.
When trying to score rare Jazz lps,to use a familiar phrase,”Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.”
Ceedee- I so far have never gotten into that kind of situation, funnily enough. Whenever I’ve been interested in a jazz record that hasn’t been priced yet, they always go straight to Discogs. They don’t even give it 5 seconds… straight to Discogs, nearly every single time (and if they don’t do that, they just casually look at the record and price it right there). I wonder if that’s part of the difference between busier cities and calmer cities… in New York, business is pretty hectic, and a lot of record store owners don’t have time to look everything up and often just want to make sales and get rid of people. Here, there are often maybe 5 people in the store. They’re in no rush to get rid of people, and they’re significantly smaller in scale. They have time to go through everything. Makes it more likely to find the good stuff whenever it shows up (far less common than in New York), since it’s not as picked over, but less likely to find a record that they haven’t looked up. It still happens, but more often than not I think the deal with a good price is just that they don’t really feel like pushing eBay prices on locals. Plus, Santa Rosa isn’t hugely known for music- I think Julie London was from here, and we’ve also got some punk bands and metal bands, a few rappers, and every now and then some respected metal acts from SF would record down here, but I think that’s it- so they’re not getting the jazz or psych crowds from tourists that San Francisco and New York City get. Put a reasonably nice Blue Note on the wall for $500 at a record store in NYC, it’s gone in a day or two… do that here, it sits untouched for a month. It’s a different market. Anyways… I’ve generally found here that the price is a little bit flexible if I already have a stack of records under my arm. That’s what happened with the Evans record… I already had a stack of records with me. The owner was thinking $150 or more, saw the stack, and just said it was mine for $100 because I already had a stack of records. This was after he saw the Discogs sales records listing $235 as a median and well over $800 as a high. It’s interesting… in busier areas you’re more likely to be able to get an amazing deal because the owners are busy, but anything they realize is valuable is going to carry a heftier price tag, whereas in less busy areas, the pickings are slimmer and the owners generally know what they have, but their prices may be more reasonable. (This is, of course, discounting exceptions, like that guy in Sebastopol that regularly demanded nearly $200 for $20 Zappa records and was known to do things like shatter records by flinging them against the wall if a customer took too long thinking about an offer. That’s an entirely different situation and is an outlier.) It’s a bit of a trade off.
Also, I must say… having been to the Village Vanguard for a show myself, I get chills listening to that Evans record… It’s the acoustics and the way the clapping sounds. That place really does have a distinctive sound, and it’s on that record in spades. I honestly didn’t even think about how going to the Village Vanguard could affect my listening experiences in regards to anything that was recorded there… it really is something.
Turbocharged Weasel,
do you reside in the PGH area, by chance?
thx
Mike